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« Created by: Aussie on: Apr 1st, 2018 at 7:33pm »

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Relationship to the truth (Read 94835 times)
lee
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #495 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 12:53pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 12:44pm:
Just want to come back to the shift that BuMet has found in the distribution of temperatures:



Yes. Lovely use or misuse of statistical chicanery. Just like deaths due to heat waves. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

But go on believing. You just love models. And statistics is modelled.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #496 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 1:15pm
 
It was in relation to the BuMet.

I think the temperature distributions shifting to the warm side is pretty significant, statistically significant too I imagine.

Statistics are descriptors of a sample, they are not a model.
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #497 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 1:21pm
 
Regarding the EarthSchool animation of winds over the globe, they have a facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/EarthWindMap

Lots more useful information on that page. This is one page of FaceBook I would encourage people to visit.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #498 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 1:31pm
 
I have used the term “bell curve” in relation to the above BuMet graphic. I have not used the term “normal distribution” because that has special meaning:

Quote:
In probability theory, the normal (or Gaussian or Gauss or Laplace-Gauss) distribution is a very common continuous probability distribution. Normal distributions are important in statistics and are often used in the natural and social sciences to represent real-valued random variables whose distributions are not known.

(wiki)

So a Normal Distribution is one that fits the Gaussian Probability distribution. Very symmetrical curves. If you look at the 1951–1980 maximum temperature distribution you see there is almost 2 peaks, one just to the left of the main peak. Also I talked of skew—a normal distribution is perfectly symmetrical.

If the distribution of worldwide minimum or maximum temperatures were graphed that distribution would be much closer to the normal distribution—bigger samples give more consistent results. A statistician would normally not bother working on samples of under 700 values.

That quote, about natural and social sciences, is not phrased as well as it might. A researcher would need to satisfy himself that the distribution of his sample is at least approximately normal: symmetrical, bell curve shape and the number of values one, two and three standard deviations from his mean. Mean, median and mode all close together etc. Normality is not just assumed for any old sample!

Statistic is a description of a sample: sample mean and sample standard deviation, sample skew, sample kurtosis etc. One statistic is range, the difference between the endpoints of the distribution. Useful to know, but useless in tests unless some advances have been made I don’t know about.

Where we have a population (census results) we talk of parameters! Population mean etc.

Stats are fun!

If you have two dice and toss them 100 times and graph the results you will see an approximation of a distribution called the Bernoulli distribution (look it up in wiki) Do the dice tosses 1000 times and your graph will look a lot more like the theoretical Bernoulli distribution. (The range, of course is from 2 to 12.)

Add one, two. . .etc dice and your distribution merges into—the normal distribution!

And some use these random tossing to guide their lives: the I Ching  Smiley
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #499 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 2:35pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 1:31pm:
Normal distributions are important in statistics and are often used in the natural and social sciences to represent real-valued random variables whose distributions are not known.


Doesn't make it correct. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 1:31pm:
And some use these random tossing to guide their lives: the I Ching


Yes. you are random tosser. Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #500 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 3:31pm
 
lee wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 2:35pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 1:31pm:
Normal distributions are important in statistics and are often used in the natural and social sciences to represent real-valued random variables whose distributions are not known.


Doesn't make it correct. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 1:31pm:
And some use these random tossing to guide their lives: the I Ching


Yes. you are random tosser. Grin Grin Grin Grin

I think I pointed out that the wiki quote wasn’t 100% accurate.

But with sufficiently large samples a distribution can generally be assumed to be approximately normal. If you want to be picky there are tests for normality.
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #501 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 3:35pm
 
No comments on the significance of the shift in temperature distributions, Lees?
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #502 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 3:51pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 3:31pm:
I think I pointed out that the wiki quote wasn’t 100% accurate.



So it is the quote that isn't 100% accurate' not the results? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 3:31pm:
But with sufficiently large samples a distribution can generally be assumed to be approximately normal.



Oh,oh. Approximations aren't measurements. What are the error bars on these approximations?

Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 3:31pm:
If you want to be picky there are tests for normality.



Of course there are and they are not 100% accurate either. Wink
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #503 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 3:54pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 3:35pm:
No comments on the significance of the shift in temperature distributions, Lees?



Why? You have merely regurgitated what you previously posted. It doesn't make it more accurate, more relevant.

Merging datasets give their own error bars.

But you did mention "fun with stats". and that's about all it is.

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality --- Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)"
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #504 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 4:52pm
 
So if I ask Aussie to delete all posts after reply 499 nothing of value will go?
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #505 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 4:54pm
 
You really find nothing to talk about regarding the distributions here:

...
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #506 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 5:14pm
 
Oh dear.JM is stuck in a rut. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #507 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 5:18pm
 
You can’t see anything in the distributions to comment on?

Like—that shows warming but doesn’t show it is AGW.  Smiley

Or—just weather. But I guess the graphs cover too many years for that.  Smiley

I would say the graphs illustrate how AGW has acted on the Australian climate.
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« Last Edit: Apr 29th, 2018 at 5:30pm by Jovial Monk »  

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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #508 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 5:52pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Apr 29th, 2018 at 5:18pm:
You can’t see anything in the distributions to comment on?

Like—that shows warming but doesn’t show it is AGW.  Smiley

Or—just weather. But I guess the graphs cover too many years for that.  Smiley

I would say the graphs illustrate how AGW has acted on the Australian climate.



You can say what you want. Doesn't mean it has meaning. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Of course cherry picking 104 sites out of how many?
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Re: Relationship to the truth
Reply #509 - Apr 29th, 2018 at 5:54pm
 
Oh, plenty of meaning there but you don’t want to admit it.

Cherry picking the BoM to talk about Australian climate?

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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