Australian Politics Forum - Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party

Secret Wars

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #15 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:13pm

Frank wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 5:47pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 5:12pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 2:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 2:27pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 7:06am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 9:34pm:

Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party Roll Eyes

All funding should be cut from all parties and independents. Nothing more than political grubs ripping off the taxpayer.

I do my bit to prevent this scam, what do you do>?

And what do you do? Not vote? Tsk, tsk, so much for being a member of a democratic nation, hey? Roll Eyes

Yeah we are so democratic that we are the ONLY first world democracy that forces people to vote with the threat of criminal punishment.

We are so democratic that we are one of the very few first world democracies that deny our citizens codified human rights.

You are a fkken idiot if you think being forced to vote is a valid democratic process.

Well, include me in your denunciation, then, old bean.

It's called compulsory voting but it is only compulsory turning up. I think it's a very, very good idea for the simple reason of legitimacy.

If you look at countries with voluntary voting, there is increasing discontent about legitimacy because the voter turnout is too low, and diminishing every year, to truly say that the elected person is a real representative of the majority will in society.

The legitimacy of laws made in Australia are not disputed because Parliaments and their members are legitimate, having been elected by universal, compulsory suffrage. Constitutional amendments likewise.

Australian citizenship confers many rights and privileges. To have a few duties or obligation in exchange, like participating in the national decision making (and thereby taking at least some responsibility for the way things are) is a very small price.

Australian citizens have an obligation to:
• obey the law;
• defend Australia should the need arise; and
• vote in federal and state or territory elections, and in referenda
http://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/Citizenship/Documents/your-right-your-responsibili...

Notice the nexus between the first and third point. But if it's too much, you can always renounce your citizenship.

"Under the Electoral Act,

Thank you, Turd:

Your link: http://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/Publications/voting/index.htm

[ARCHIVED] Compulsory voting in Australia
This page has been archived as it relates to past electoral information and is no longer updated. The information may not be relevant to current electoral events.

An F orf for you is in order, Turd. Float on.

Turdy does that when he has nothing intelligent to offer but due to his relevance deprivation syndrome feels a compulsion to post a look at me appeal.

Grin

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 144042 Gender:	Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party Reply #16 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:16pm Secret Wars wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:13pm: Turdy does that when he has nothing intelligent to offer but due to his relevance deprivation syndrome feels a compulsion to post a look at me appeal.
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Frank

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #17 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:18pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:11pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:09pm:

No one can physically make you vote, but the law absolutely requires you to do so.

And no one checks that you have... Roll Eyes

Correct.

It's still required by law, though.

You like that, Turd, don't you, a law that is idiotic in its pointless officiousness, quite a bit like you. No wonder you jumped in like a performing flea, once again.

Front up at the polling booth and don't say later that you had no chance to make your views count - good.

The rest about 'must vote but we can never know if you did' is idiotic like you.

Float on.

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Bias_2012

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #18 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:20pm

Frank wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 5:12pm:

compulsory suffrage.

suffrage |ˈsəfrij|
noun
1 the right to vote in political elections

As long as you understand Frank, that the act of enforcing compulsion, cancels out "right" and turns it into "involuntary servitude". In the US, involuntary servitude has been abolished ... and the UN is working to abolish it throughout the world

I have a final fine notice here for not voting in a by-election I knew nothing about, I'm in the bush, and I never received the original fine notice. I lose my license tomorrow if I don't pay the fine tonight. That final notice, which is the only notice I've received for the offence, gave me only 4 days to do all the emailing, phone calls etc to convince them of my predicament

In the end, the guy on the phone said: "Pay the fine, it's not a presumption of guilt" (Actually, he was anxious to get the money there and then online)

What I'm left with is a by-election I was unaware of, and been fined for not voting in, have to pay the fine and argue about it later

What chance do you think I have of getting out of it?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #19 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:21pm

Frank wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:18pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:11pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:09pm:

No one can physically make you vote, but the law absolutely requires you to do so.

And no one checks that you have... Roll Eyes

Correct.

It's still required by law, though.

You like that, Turd, don't you, a law that is idiotic in its pointless officiousness, quite a bit like you. No wonder you jumped in like a performing flea, once again.

Front up at the polling booth and don't say later that you had no chance to make your views count - good.

The rest about 'must vote but we can never know if you did' is idiotic like you.

Float on.

I neither like it, nor dislike it.

I'm just stating a fact.

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Frank

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #20 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 9:02pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:20pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 5:12pm:

compulsory suffrage.

suffrage |ˈsəfrij|
noun
1 the right to vote in political elections

As long as you understand Frank, that the act of enforcing compulsion, cancels out "right" and turns it into "involuntary servitude". In the US, involuntary servitude has been abolished ... and the UN is working to abolish it throughout the world

I have a final fine notice here for not voting in a by-election I knew nothing about, I'm in the bush, and I never received the original fine notice. I lose my license tomorrow if I don't pay the fine tonight. That final notice, which is the only notice I've received for the offence, gave me only 4 days to do all the emailing, phone calls etc to convince them of my predicament

In the end, the guy on the phone said: "Pay the fine, it's not a presumption of guilt" (Actually, he was anxious to get the money there and then online)

What I'm left with is a by-election I was unaware of, and been fined for not voting in, have to pay the fine and argue about it later

What chance do you think I have of getting out of it?

Oh! The dreadful burdens of being the citizen of a functional democracy!

The horror of it all!!! Unbearable!

Renounce your Australian citizenship immediately. They will never bother you again. Show them just what stern stuff you are made of.
Go on! Teach them a lesson they will never forget.

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Frank

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #21 - Feb 8^th, 2018 at 9:07pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:21pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:18pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:11pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:09pm:

No one can physically make you vote, but the law absolutely requires you to do so.

And no one checks that you have... Roll Eyes

Correct.

It's still required by law, though.

You like that, Turd, don't you, a law that is idiotic in its pointless officiousness, quite a bit like you. No wonder you jumped in like a performing flea, once again.

Front up at the polling booth and don't say later that you had no chance to make your views count - good.

The rest about 'must vote but we can never know if you did' is idiotic like you.

Float on.

I neither like it, nor dislike it.

I'm just stating a fact.

https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/disp/16d8eb42531943.57cf81a5c2...

A law as idiotic as you.

I am just stating the fact, turd.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #22 - Feb 9^th, 2018 at 1:07pm

Frank wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 9:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:21pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:18pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:11pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:09pm:

No one can physically make you vote, but the law absolutely requires you to do so.

And no one checks that you have... Roll Eyes

Correct.

It's still required by law, though.

You like that, Turd, don't you, a law that is idiotic in its pointless officiousness, quite a bit like you. No wonder you jumped in like a performing flea, once again.

Front up at the polling booth and don't say later that you had no chance to make your views count - good.

The rest about 'must vote but we can never know if you did' is idiotic like you.

Float on.

I neither like it, nor dislike it.

I'm just stating a fact.

https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/disp/16d8eb42531943.57cf81a5c2...

A law as idiotic as you.

I am just stating the fact, turd.

No, you're stating a subjective opinion.

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BigOl64

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #23 - Feb 9^th, 2018 at 1:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 6:07pm:

Having been a Electoral official at what, four federal elections and half a dozen different state ones, I can tell you, you are not made to vote. Indeed, the instructions to the polling staff are that you are required to mark the roll, next to the voter's name, make the ballot paper, before handing it to the voter. If the voter refuses the ballot, you are then required to hand it to your superior. Once the voter receives the ballot, they can go to the polling booth and mark it, however they wish, although there are instructions on the correct method to make it a valid vote. They don't need to mark it if they don't desire, either. They are then required to insert it into the ballot box and leave the polling station.

At no point is an electoral official to stand over the elector and make them mark the ballot paper. No one makes you vote. All that is physically required of you is for you to have your name marked off the electoral roll.

The High Court may believe otherwise but there is a disconnect between what actually occurs and what they believe should occur. Voting is, in Australia, actually voluntary, no matter what they and anybody else says until il Duce Dutton puts an electoral official in each polling booth and forces the voters to mark their ballot paper. Roll Eyes

What a gross waste of everyone's time and money.

Thank fkk I am off the electoral roll again and the AEC public servants are too lazy and stupid to bother finding me.

Imagine if actual first world democracies treated their citizens with the same contempt Australia treats theirs, the word democracy would be meaningless.

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BigOl64

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #24 - Feb 9^th, 2018 at 1:45pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 4:28pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 2:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 2:27pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 7:06am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 9:34pm:

Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party Roll Eyes

All funding should be cut from all parties and independents. Nothing more than political grubs ripping off the taxpayer.

I do my bit to prevent this scam, what do you do>?

And what do you do? Not vote? Tsk, tsk, so much for being a member of a democratic nation, hey? Roll Eyes

Yeah we are so democratic that we are the ONLY first world democracy that forces people to vote with the threat of criminal punishment.

We are so democratic that we are one of the very few first world democracies that deny our citizens codified human rights.

You are a fkken idiot if you think being forced to vote is a valid democratic process.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Still resorting to childish ad hominem debate, BigOl64? Tsk, tsk. Democracy has nothing to do with being made to attend a polling booth on a given date (no one forces you to vote). Democracy has nothing do with "codified human rights." Democracy is about the ability, in our case, to choose the person who represents us in the House of Representatives in Canberra. It is about the ability to vote.

Now, why don't you explain the answer to my question? Or is that too hard for a man of your supposedly towering intellect? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

You are forced to attend a polling place you are forced to have your name marked off as having attended the polling place, you are handed a voting form, and you are by law required to vote, but no-one actually checks you have voted (how very democratic of the government).

If I don't want to legitimised any of the filthy self serving grubs on offer, then it should be my absolute right to not have to, like they do in real first world democracies.

You asked 4 questions not one, do you want me to answer one question or all four?

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Brian Ross

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #25 - Feb 9^th, 2018 at 1:59pm

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 1:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 4:28pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 2:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 2:27pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 7:06am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 9:34pm:

Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party Roll Eyes

All funding should be cut from all parties and independents. Nothing more than political grubs ripping off the taxpayer.

I do my bit to prevent this scam, what do you do>?

And what do you do? Not vote? Tsk, tsk, so much for being a member of a democratic nation, hey? Roll Eyes

Yeah we are so democratic that we are the ONLY first world democracy that forces people to vote with the threat of criminal punishment.

We are so democratic that we are one of the very few first world democracies that deny our citizens codified human rights.

You are a fkken idiot if you think being forced to vote is a valid democratic process.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Still resorting to childish ad hominem debate, BigOl64? Tsk, tsk. Democracy has nothing to do with being made to attend a polling booth on a given date (no one forces you to vote). Democracy has nothing do with "codified human rights." Democracy is about the ability, in our case, to choose the person who represents us in the House of Representatives in Canberra. It is about the ability to vote.

Now, why don't you explain the answer to my question? Or is that too hard for a man of your supposedly towering intellect? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

You are forced to attend a polling place you are forced to have your name marked off as having attended the polling place, you are handed a voting form, and you are by law required to vote, but no-one actually checks you have voted (how very democratic of the government).

If I don't want to legitimised any of the filthy self serving grubs on offer, then it should be my absolute right to not have to, like they do in real first world democracies.

You asked 4 questions not one, do you want me to answer one question or all four?

"First world democracies"? Like the UK, where they don't have a Secret Ballot? Like the US, where your individual vote is effectively worthless as the decision is determined by the Electoral College? Not very Democratic in my view on either count.

So, you choose not to vote. That is your choice. I don't see what you're complaining about. Either you turn up, have your name marked off and you either refuse the ballot or hand in a blank one OR you choose not to and pay the fine. Either way, you don't vote. Roll Eyes

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BigOl64

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #26 - Feb 9^th, 2018 at 2:15pm

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 1:59pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 1:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 4:28pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 2:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 2:27pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Feb 8^th, 2018 at 7:06am:

Brian Ross wrote on Feb 7^th, 2018 at 9:34pm:

Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party Roll Eyes

All funding should be cut from all parties and independents. Nothing more than political grubs ripping off the taxpayer.

I do my bit to prevent this scam, what do you do>?

And what do you do? Not vote? Tsk, tsk, so much for being a member of a democratic nation, hey? Roll Eyes

Yeah we are so democratic that we are the ONLY first world democracy that forces people to vote with the threat of criminal punishment.

We are so democratic that we are one of the very few first world democracies that deny our citizens codified human rights.

You are a fkken idiot if you think being forced to vote is a valid democratic process.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Still resorting to childish ad hominem debate, BigOl64? Tsk, tsk. Democracy has nothing to do with being made to attend a polling booth on a given date (no one forces you to vote). Democracy has nothing do with "codified human rights." Democracy is about the ability, in our case, to choose the person who represents us in the House of Representatives in Canberra. It is about the ability to vote.

Now, why don't you explain the answer to my question? Or is that too hard for a man of your supposedly towering intellect? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

You are forced to attend a polling place you are forced to have your name marked off as having attended the polling place, you are handed a voting form, and you are by law required to vote, but no-one actually checks you have voted (how very democratic of the government).

If I don't want to legitimised any of the filthy self serving grubs on offer, then it should be my absolute right to not have to, like they do in real first world democracies.

You asked 4 questions not one, do you want me to answer one question or all four?

"First world democracies"? Like the UK, where they don't have a Secret Ballot? Like the US, where your individual vote is effectively worthless as the decision is determined by the Electoral College? Not very Democratic in my view on either count.

So, you choose not to vote. That is your choice. I don't see what you're complaining about. Either you turn up, have your name marked off and you either refuse the ballot or hand in a blank one OR you choose not to and pay the fine. Either way, you don't vote. Roll Eyes

What a stupid comment, Australia's democracy is based on the freedom to embrace punitive action for non-compliance.

Also I did not ask or demand for the loss of secret ballot or the implementation of an electoral college, only the right to vote or not.

If you can't come up with a valid reply it might be best not replying at all, wouldn't you think?

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Bias_2012

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #27 - Feb 9^th, 2018 at 2:40pm

"Democracy is about the ability, in our case, to choose the person who represents us in the House of Representatives in Canberra. It is about the ability to vote." - Brian

I paid the $160 last night for not voting in a by-election I knew nothing about - keep my license, I live in the bush

Definition of democracy
plural democracies
1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

Our elections are not free though, are they Brian? are they meant to be free or coercive? in your opinion

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Brian Ross

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #28 - Feb 9^th, 2018 at 2:47pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Feb 9^th, 2018 at 2:40pm:

"Democracy is about the ability, in our case, to choose the person who represents us in the House of Representatives in Canberra. It is about the ability to vote." - Brian

I paid the $160 last night for not voting in a by-election I knew nothing about - keep my license, I live in the bush

Definition of democracy
plural democracies
1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

Our elections are not free though, are they Brian? are they meant to be free or coercive? in your opinion

"Free" in this case means, without any coercion by the Government or others. We are not coerced in our voting choice. Therefore, Australian elections are free and fair.

Compulsory attendance at the Polling Station does not, IMO, amount to coercion to vote. You are not made to vote. Roll Eyes

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Bias_2012

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Re: Public funding props up Hanson's One Nation party
Reply #29 - Feb 9^th, 2018 at 3:00pm

You have to go to a lot of trouble though if you're in the right and fighting for a refund of the fine money

They told me "Paying a fine is not a presumption of guilt"

But getting that money back requires filling out forms, paying non-refundable fees and the whole process can stretch out more than a year

Doesn't sound very fair and free to me

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