Australian Politics Forum - Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene

Gnads

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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #45 - Jan 1^st, 2018 at 11:14am

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Dec 27^th, 2017 at 11:16am:

As for 'power structures' it sounds like you are again mistaking some mythical 'right' of a self-appointed 'better class' to dictate terms for a genuine balance of power within a society.

Narrow-based power groups, such as 'business' people, have been proven over and over again to be far too often a bunch of total bugger-ups, who are capable of making the most monumental mistakes costing billions and showing talent only in escaping with the pot of gold hidden within the company framework.

Any unconstrained 'power structure' is a disaster waiting to happen, and it is appalling that such as one as you would even consider that kind of Hitlerist/Stalinist structure to be a socially and economically valid one.

When there is a fair balance of rights for all, including Unions, this nation functioned much better.

I think at times you, aquascoot, mistake elitism for some kind of divine right.

Footnote:- What this country lacks is a good management massacre by a disgruntled ex employee - that would change the face of 'industrial relations' here for at least another century.

Never truer words typed Grappler.

Ask our Tradies/subbies how well big business pays ... & what happens when they don't .... & that is happening all the time. And they get away with it the scumbags.

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Gnads

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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #46 - Jan 1^st, 2018 at 11:29am

crocodile wrote on Dec 27^th, 2017 at 10:50pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 27^th, 2017 at 6:44pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 27^th, 2017 at 11:18am:

They are paid at the market rate. End of story.

A CEO has not been paid at a rate relevant to any market in many decades.

It is very much a corrupt you scratch my back I'll scratch your back process.

Could you show us your source for this please. Would love to read and analyse it.

What sources do you need?

CEO's salaries are oft in the print media or shown on TV .......

they are obscene & they are governed by no market rate.

They are governed by self interest, greed & what they can get away with.

It's like a cliquey club

They get bonuses even when they fail & have to leave a company (remember Sol Trudjillo?).....

next thing you know they turn up at another company to do the same thing or end up with directorships at several other companies.

Our CEO got the arze from Rio Tinto then lobs with us.

The company is now in the process of being totally dismantled from a multi-modal freight company .. to a specialist coal/ore only carrier.

The infrastructure which they run on they inherited for next to nothing was paid for by the taxpayer for over 150 years.

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Gnads

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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #47 - Jan 1^st, 2018 at 11:32am

aquascoot wrote on Dec 28^th, 2017 at 7:18am:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 27^th, 2017 at 6:44pm:

crocodile wrote on Dec 27^th, 2017 at 11:18am:

They are paid at the market rate. End of story.

A CEO has not been paid at a rate relevant to any market in many decades.

It is very much a corrupt you scratch my back I'll scratch your back process.

some of these CEO's are managing many lawsuits for their companies , they are responsible for teams doing diverse things, they have to provide direction to the organisation, they have to travel extensively, they have to maintain relationships in multiple countries, they have to keep on top of the technology, they have competitors whose sole function in life is to take them down.

they are

off the chart in conscientousness
off the chart in IQ
off the chart in resistance to stress.

when we can pay an elite athlete millions of dollars, i have NO problem with a CEO being paid millions of dollars.

Bullshyte

you mean they are heartless sociopaths ... as for high IQs that's debatable ......

especially with the ones on the CEO Club circuit who go from company to company .... failing & still making a fortune.

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Gnads

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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #48 - Jan 1^st, 2018 at 11:38am

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2017 at 8:24am:

aquascoot wrote on Dec 30^th, 2017 at 8:08am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Dec 30^th, 2017 at 12:52am:

the alpha horse chomps on the best grass and disdains the imprecations of the common herd for a piece of that action.... that herd unable to be the alpha can find its own cake to eat and must make itself worthy of eating from the same pasture by the individuals in it upgrading their benefit to the herd .... the alpha simply flicks away their concerns with his tail and grows fat on the proceeds of the grass.....his entitlement is absolute...... the foals can simply die unless the herd accedes to his wishes.....

If I were a leader like that, I'd have been sleeping with a grenade every night of the week......

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/They_horses.jpg

wrong.

the alpha horse isnt in a power struggle.
men dont struggle for power.
men get together and elect the most competant and conscientous to lead them.
no one is stomping on anyones head bro.

an alpha MUST look after those in the tribe who follow him.
even back in chimpanzee colonies, if an alpha didnt provide benevolent leadership , then 3 betas could form an alliance and take him out.

we are social animals.
an alpha gets some perks for sure.
no one minds that their boss has a bigger pay packet and a bigger office then them .
but the alpha only gets these perks if he takes on the responsibilities of being the leader.
he has to be first thru the door in times of danger
he has to sacrifice himself, his sleep, his peace of mind, he has to be courageous .
if he doesnt act alpha, then he will be taken down.
and part of being alpha is a benevolent attitude to all who have given you this priveledged position.

in leftist states (russia, maos china, cuba, north korea, cambodia), then the socialists showed their true colours as totalitarian butchers.
but an alpha leader of a western corporation must lead for the benefit of everyone , all the way down to the cleaners or he will be gone.

thats why capitalism is such a great system
and why we need to recognise that "hierachies of power" are actually "hierachies of competance" and they are benefiting you and keeping you safe.

now go and enjoy your capitalist internet, your capitalist smart phone, your capitalist automobile, your capitalist medical technology, your capitalist food supply, your capitalist holiday, your capitalist air con and be very greatful you dont live in a socialist utopia like north korea or venezaula

Quote:

men dont struggle for power.
men get together and elect the most competant and conscientous to lead them.
no one is stomping on anyones head bro.

Mostly the leader is the one who kicked everyone else off of the ladder on the way up, the best leaders are the ones who's victums didn't even notice that they were stabbed in the back 72 times.

Spot on

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Gnads

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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #49 - Jan 1^st, 2018 at 11:45am

freediver wrote on Dec 31^st, 2017 at 7:54am:

Shareholders decide CEO salaries. The money comes out of their pockets, no the pockets of employees.

Shareholders vote on remuneration packages, overseen by the board.

Those with the most shares actually have all the say ... so the executive & the CEO would be large holders as well.

Our company had a 3 strike rule for CEO's ... yet the last one that left still walked with all his bonuses & share portfolio which nearly amounted to $11 million.

He also had a habit of selling share blocks as close to 12 hrs before a blackout period.

Not that he would have had any inside info like Roll Eyes

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Gnads

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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #50 - Jan 1^st, 2018 at 11:52am

freediver wrote on Jan 1^st, 2018 at 10:06am:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 31^st, 2017 at 8:10am:

freediver wrote on Dec 31^st, 2017 at 7:54am:

Shareholders decide CEO salaries. The money comes out of their pockets, no the pockets of employees.

There is some truth in what you say -maybe 5%.

If the shareholders decided the CEO should have his salary halved, what do you think they would do with the difference? Give everyone a raise? Donate it to charity? Or pocket it?

Also, the reason American CEO salaries are out of step with other countries is because their companies tend to be bigger. There are fewer CEOs per employee. And they really are worth that much. If each wrong decision can cost 10000 or 100000 or 1000000 people their job, paying them the salary of 400 people doesn't seem so silly.

It's an interesting contrast with politicians. They make decisions worth a lot more money, more jobs, and a lot of lives, yet their salary is only commensurate with someone in middle management doing the boring paperwork and dealing with petty staff issues.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

That is the biggest load of bollocks saying ever used to justify greed.

You pay more than peanuts and you still get monkeys

slightly smarter monkeys but monkeys still the same.

CEO's do make wrong decisions ...

and they make decisions that deliberately cost 1,000's of people their jobs ......

and they get paid productivity bonuses for those decisions.

You too FD defend the indefensible.

As for that gem .. "there are fewer CEO'S than employees" Grin

Most all companies only have 1 CEO ..... so that is irrelevant.

What's relevant is they are paid obscene salaries along with their bonuses & gift share portfolios.

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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #51 - Jan 1^st, 2018 at 11:56am

Gnads wrote on Jan 1^st, 2018 at 11:14am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Dec 27^th, 2017 at 11:16am:

As for 'power structures' it sounds like you are again mistaking some mythical 'right' of a self-appointed 'better class' to dictate terms for a genuine balance of power within a society.

Narrow-based power groups, such as 'business' people, have been proven over and over again to be far too often a bunch of total bugger-ups, who are capable of making the most monumental mistakes costing billions and showing talent only in escaping with the pot of gold hidden within the company framework.

Any unconstrained 'power structure' is a disaster waiting to happen, and it is appalling that such as one as you would even consider that kind of Hitlerist/Stalinist structure to be a socially and economically valid one.

When there is a fair balance of rights for all, including Unions, this nation functioned much better.

I think at times you, aquascoot, mistake elitism for some kind of divine right.

Footnote:- What this country lacks is a good management massacre by a disgruntled ex employee - that would change the face of 'industrial relations' here for at least another century.

Never truer words typed Grappler.

Ask our Tradies/subbies how well big business pays ... & what happens when they don't .... & that is happening all the time. And they get away with it the scumbags.

Tradies in family - building tradies - have been ripped off more than once for their work and materials.

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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #52 - Jan 1^st, 2018 at 12:10pm

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 1^st, 2018 at 10:45am:

freediver wrote on Jan 1^st, 2018 at 10:20am:

Quote:

Halve politician salaries and attract only the genuine

Government by well-intentioned morons.

Already got that - time to try for a change.

My rule of thumb is - if we had a popularly elected president, which one would you vote for?

At this time, I'd vote for none.

Why would lower paid people, who enter only because they want to do the job on behalf of the people and were prepared to take a pay drop to do so, be 'morons'?

So just keep reducing the salary until we attract quality candidates?

Isn't that like saying the beatings will continue until morale improves?

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene Reply #53 - Jan 1^st, 2018 at 12:21pm If you want to attract the best people you have to pay for it. In a global market people will be able to pick and choose the right role for them, if you don’t pay a going rate then you’ll get v ordinary candidates!
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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #54 - Jan 1^st, 2018 at 10:38pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 1^st, 2018 at 12:21pm:

If you want to attract the best people you have to pay for it.
In a global market people will be able to pick and choose the right role for them, if you don’t pay a going rate then you’ll get v ordinary candidates!

Yet there is a thread about complaining childcare educators and workers over a payrise.

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Grappler Racist Filth Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 90446 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene Reply #55 - Jan 1^st, 2018 at 10:54pm Because CEOs are an obscene self-serving group of losers and failures? If they weren't - why do so many companies and even major corporations go broke? a. bad management
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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #56 - Jan 1^st, 2018 at 10:59pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 1^st, 2018 at 12:21pm:

If you want to attract the best people you have to pay for it.
In a global market people will be able to pick and choose the right role for them, if you don’t pay a going rate then you’ll get v ordinary candidates!

Does that all apply to the common worker.. or just to the elitist class?

"In a global market workers will be able to pick and choose the right role for them, if you don’t pay a going rate then you’ll get v ordinary candidates" ... how will that go down? Companies lining up for that deal, are they? Or are they just seeking the lowest possible rate of pay per worker?

You're still a dreamer, Andrei..... you should go into politics since you have simply no idea........ you could explain with the best of them how they are all better off under your global economy as they eat their lard sandwiches and join the dole queue......

Oh - but the overall national prosperity is on the rise..... Grin

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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #57 - Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 7:20am

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 1^st, 2018 at 10:54pm:

Because CEOs are an obscene self-serving group of losers and failures?

If they weren't - why do so many companies and even major corporations go broke?

a. bad management

OK, so you admit that an entire company can go broke (and all the employees lose their jobs) because of bad management. And you think the appropriate response is to offer an even lower salary next time you are trying to recruit a CEO?

"Hey look everyone, we are paying peanuts and getting monkeys, and we will all be out of a job if we keep this up, so what should we do? Try paying even less?"

That is literally what a lot of people think should happen with politicians. But when shareholders have their own investment on the line, suddenly common sense kicks in.

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cods

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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #58 - Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 7:38am

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 1^st, 2018 at 10:54pm:

Because CEOs are an obscene self-serving group of losers and failures?

If they weren't - why do so many companies and even major corporations go broke?

a. bad management

what about the likes of Clive Palmer..

he is still roaming the world spending his workers redundancy money... Roll Eyes

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Re: Why Is CEO Pay And Bonuses Obscene
Reply #59 - Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 7:51am

cods wrote on Jan 2^nd, 2018 at 7:38am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 1^st, 2018 at 10:54pm:

Because CEOs are an obscene self-serving group of losers and failures?

If they weren't - why do so many companies and even major corporations go broke?

a. bad management

what about the likes of Clive Palmer..

he is still roaming the world spending his workers redundancy money... Roll Eyes

Clive only got into politics to get out of paying his tax bill. If you don't pay politicians enough you end up with well intentioned idiots or the corrupt.

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