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Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ... (Read 4161 times)
juliar
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #15 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 3:57pm
 
The boring monotonous gecko troll seems to be stuck in the groove.

Now to help the gecko troll even begin to understand euthanasia. (forlorn hope indeed!!)

Note in China organ harvesting from sick people is normal.



Arguments For and Against Euthanasia

Explore our summary of the euthanasia debate

The arguments for euthanasia:

-We need it - 'the compassion argument'.  Supporters of euthanasia believe that allowing people to ‘die with dignity’ is kinder than forcing them to continue their lives with suffering.

-We want it - 'the autonomy argument'.  Some believe that every patient has a right to choose when to die.
We can control it - 'the public policy argument'.  Proponents believe that euthanasia can be safely regulated by government legislation.


The arguments against euthanasia:

-Alternative treatments are available, such as palliative care and hospices. We do not have to kill the patient to kill the symptoms.  Nearly all pain can be relieved.

-There is no ‘right’ to be killed and there are real dangers of ‘slippery slopes’. Opening the doors to voluntary euthanasia could lead to non-voluntary and involuntary euthanasia, by giving doctors the power to decide when a patient’s life is not worth living.  In the Netherlands in 1990 around 1,000 patients were killed without their request.

-We could never truly control it. Reports from the Netherlands, where euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide are legal, reveal that doctors do not always report it.

-The assumption that patients should have a right to die would impose on doctors a duty to kill, thus restricting the autonomy of the doctor.  Also, a ‘right to die’ for some people might well become a ‘duty to die’ by others, particularly those who are vulnerable or dependent upon others.
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juliar
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #16 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:00pm
 
Why say 'No' to Euthanasia?

What about personal choice?

The pro-euthanasia and assisted suicide lobby emphasise the importance of personal choice and autonomy. Shouldn’t patients have the right to end their lives? Dignity in Dying patron, Sir Patrick Stewart has argued “We have no control over how we arrive in the world but at the end of life we should have control over how we leave it.”[1]

Surely however the debate is not about the right to die; it is about the right to help patients kill themselves. Instead of giving freedom to patients, euthanasia and assisted suicide is about giving other people the legal power to end another person’s life.

Assisted suicide is not a private act. Nobody chooses assisted suicide in isolation. Euthanasia and assisted suicide are matters of public concern because they involve one person facilitating the death of another. Friends, relatives, healthcare staff and society are hugely affected by the wider ramifications of the process.

Journalist and author George Pitcher has said that any change in the law would have “profound adverse affects on the social fabric of our society, on our attitudes towards each other’s deaths and illnesses, on our attitudes towards those who are ill and have disabilities.”[2]

Increased autonomy would apply only if you met all the criteria to be eligible. If you had a disease where the prognosis is not straightforward, dementia or a chronic but not terminal disease, then you would not meet the criteria; attempts to extend the law further would be almost inevitable. Assisted suicide is not a private act and there is a real risk that a ‘right to die’ may soon become a ‘duty to die’.

What about compassion?

The pro-euthanasia and assisted suicide lobby will often present the view that helping someone else to end their life is the most loving and compassionate thing to do. But surely the most compassionate thing to do is to care for a person at the end of their life and to show them that their life has tremendous value regardless of age or abilities.

Palliative care is an area of healthcare that focuses on relieving and preventing the suffering of patients. Britain is the only country in the world where palliative care is a recognised medical specialism.[3] Further, in a recent survey by The Economist Britain was ranked first in the world for quality end-of-life care. The survey took in 40 OECD and non-OECD countries, including the USA, the Netherlands, Germany and France.[4]

What about the most vulnerable?

Changing the law to allow euthanasia or assisted suicide will inevitably put pressure on vulnerable people to end their lives for fear of being a financial, emotional or care burden upon others. This would especially affect people who are disabled, elderly, sick or depressed. Some would face the added risk of coercion by others who might stand to gain from their deaths. Fear and anxiety would be promoted rather than Individual autonomy.

In its 1994 report The House of Lords Select Committee on Medical Ethics concluded:

“It was virtually impossible to ensure that all acts of euthanasia were truly voluntary and that any liberalisation of the law in the United Kingdom could not be abused. We were also concerned that vulnerable people – the elderly, lonely, sick or distressed – would feel pressure, whether real or imagined, to request early death.”[5]

The law must protect the most vulnerable people in society. We must never let the depressed, the confused, those in terrible pain, the aged and the vulnerable feel that they should pursue the path of assisted suicide so as not to be a burden on others.

Dr Andrew Fergusson, of the Care Not Killing Alliance, has said “the simple truth is that the current law exists to protect those without a voice: the disabled, terminally ill and elderly, who might otherwise feel pressured into ending their lives”.[6]

What next?

Recent studies concerning the euthanasia and assisted suicide law in countries that have legalised such measures make for troubling reading.

A study conducted in 2012 shows that 32% of the assisted deaths in Belgium are carried out without request and 47% of assisted deaths go unreported in the Flanders region of Belgium. Another recent study found that nurses are regularly euthanasing their patients in Belgium even though the laws prohibits it. Since euthanasia was legalised in 2002 there has not been one attempt to prosecu8te for abuses of the euthanasia law. In addition to this the study shows there was a 25% increase in the number of assisted deaths in Belgium in 2012.[7]

In March the Belgian Government voted to widen the definition of the law to include children with disabilities. The legislation was supported in Parliament despite more than 160 Belgian paediatric doctors opposing the change.[8]

In Oregon (where assisted suicide was legalised in 1997) the law has led to patients ‘doctor shopping’ for willing practitioners, using doctors who have minimal knowledge of their past. In 2008, 50 per cent of patients requesting suicide were assisted to die by a doctor who had been their physician for eight weeks or less.[9]

Not all people who are terminally ill wish to end their life

Bit more here

https://www.care.org.uk/our-causes/sanctity-life/arguments-against-assisted-suic...
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #17 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:01pm
 
juliar wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:00pm:
Not all people who are terminally ill wish to end their life


Not all people will need to.

...
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juliar
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #18 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:02pm
 
Gosh the boring monotonous gecko troll is still around.

This heavy stuff will knock the old gecko troll off of his perch.



What is Euthanasia?

When attempting to define euthanasia, it is helpful to be aware of a variety of terms and definitions, as listed below:

Euthanasia Definition What is euthanasia?

Euthanasia is where someone intentionally kills a person whose life is felt not to be worth living. Euthanasia does not include stopping or starting a medically useless treatment, relieving pain when the intention is to kill the pain but not the patient, or refusal of medical treatment by a competent patient. Euthanasia is illegal in the UK under the common law offence of murder.

Voluntary euthanasia is when a competent patient consents and Non-voluntary euthanasia is when the patient lacks the competence to make an end-of-life decision.

Assisted Suicide is where someone helps another person to end their own life. It is illegal in the UK under the Suicide Act 1961 section 2, which states that a person: “who aids, abets, counsels or procures the suicide of another, or an attempt by another to commit suicide, shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years.”[1]

The 2010 Guidelines In February 2010 the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, laid down prosecution guidelines on assisted suicide for the UK. The guidance sets out 16 factors to be considered in favour of a prosecution and six factors against. A prosecution is more likely to be required if, amongst other things, the victim was under 18 years of age or the suspect pressured the victim to commit suicide. A prosecution is less likely to be required if, amongst other things, the suspect was wholly motivated by compassion or the victim had reached a voluntary and informed decision to commit suicide

[2] Richard Hawkes, chief executive of UK disability charity Scope, said “Many disabled people are frightened by the consequences of these new guidelines and with good reason. There is a real danger these changes will result in disabled people being pressured to end their lives.”[3] In response Mr Starmer commented: “We’ve ensured that protection of the law applies absolutely to everyone whatever their state of health.” He added “in each of these cases there will always be a very careful investigation and a very careful evaluation of the evidence.”[4] In March 2012 MPs discussed whether to put the guidelines into law. The House disagreed with such a move on the basis that it would create certain legal grounds for assisted suicide. The majority of the House expressed clear opposition to any change in the law regarding assisted suicide. Conservative MP Fiona Bruce concluded: “We are absolutely delighted that the house has sent such a clear message ... that assisted suicide is not the route we wish to take as a society.”[5]
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juliar
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #19 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:06pm
 
And the simple soll the gecko troll thought it was all so simple.




Personal Stories

If you have been personally affected by this issue and would like to share your story or concerns with us, please contact Supporter Services on: supporter.services@care.org.uk

When Baroness Campbell of Surbiton was born, the doctors told her mother that she was very unlikely to live longer than a year. But, over 50 years later, Lady Campbell is a leading campaigner for the rights of people with disabilities and a member of the British House of Lords.

Lady Campbell has a degenerative condition called Type 1 Spinal Muscular Atrophy. She uses a wheelchair and has serious breathing problems, for which she needs to use a mechanical ventilator, in order to breathe through the night. Yet, she continues to be strongly opposed to euthanasia and assisted suicide. She says: “Legalising premature death as a treatment option plants a seed of doubt about one’s right to demand help to live with dignity and undermines the state’s responsibility to ensure that all citizens can live with dignity.”


Baroness Finlay shares the story of her mother, who wanted to die so she 'wouldn't be a burden'. She says, 'convincing her to live gave us both a gift beyond measure.' Read her story in The Huffington Post here.


Matt Hampson is a former England under 21 rugby player, whose career was brought to the most abrupt end imaginable in a training accident in March 2005. His neck was dislocated and his spinal cord trapped, leaving him unable to feel or move below the level of injury. Matt was just 20 years of age.  Every morning carers have to hoist him up, wash him, help him go to the toilet, drain fluid from his lungs and dress him. He requires permanent use of a ventilator to breathe. Matt says: “In the weeks after I was injured, I said to my dad: “This could make me a better person”, he says. “I didn’t really believe it at the time, but I just wanted to ease his pain. But looking at it now, maybe I am a better person. I think about things a lot more and I think about others more.”

Matt is the patron of a charity for disabled children called Special Effects and coaches school boys rugby. He has helped raise money for UK charity Spinal Research. In his autobiography he talks about his mantra from his favourite film, The Shawshank Redemption: “Get busy living or get busy dying.”He’s made his choice. “You’ve got to have hope, otherwise it would crush you. But you have to be realistic, too, and live life as well as you can without looking too far into the future. It’s about doing things rather than waiting for things to happen.”


At the age of 20, Bram Harrison was involved in a cycling accident. He was not wearing a helmet and fractured his skull, damaging his brain.He was left paralysed and unable to speak. The only parts of his body he can deliberately move are his eyes and his eye-lids. Several years ago a doctor asked him what they should do if, for whatever reason, his heart stopped. His response was that he wanted to live, just as he wants to live now.

There have been many low points over the years but Bram says he has never felt hopeless. He loves seeing his family, especially his three nephews, and enjoys film and sport. Inspired by one of his carers, he is now learning Polish. And he has a radio show on a local station. Mr Harrison also has a website – www.eyelife.org – where he describes his life with locked-in syndrome.


Alison Davis, who passed away in December 2013, shared her story with The Observer in 2002. Alison was born with severe spina bifida, and for her whole life was dependent on a wheelchair. She was often in extreme pain for hours at a time and had breathing difficulties. She said that for many years she wanted to “end it all.” She noted: “Over time, my desire to die became a settled wish and it lasted about ten years. During the first five of those years I attempted suicide several times.When I wanted to die I thought I’d be doing my friends and family a favour. I thought, well they’ll go back to their normal lives and don’t have to be burdened with me. It’s only looking back that I realise what a horrible trick of the mind that is…. What one person does impacts on what everyone else does. And if we say to one eighty year old lady, who thinks her life is not worth having anymore…then we start to say that being tired of living is a good enough reason to have your life ended.”

Alison became a pro-life campaigner after hearing how one doctor wanted to end the life of a little baby girl called Louise, diagnosed with the same conditions as her. She wrote to the doctor about the girl, and “explained that I was disabled to just the extent that Louise had been, and that I felt he had made a horribly wrong decision”. Alison led the No Less Human group, which campaigns to promote a positive view of disability and forms part of the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children. She also founded a charity called Enable, working with disabled children in India.
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #20 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:10pm
 
juliar wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:06pm:
Alison became a pro-life campaigner after hearing how one doctor wanted to end the life of a little baby girl called Louise, diagnosed with the same conditions as her.


" ... terminally ill people over the age of 18, in severe pain and with only a year to live will be able to access lethal drugs."

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juliar
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #21 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:14pm
 
gecko troll you are just too simple minded and boring and monotonous to bother with. bi.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #22 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:19pm
 
juliar wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:14pm:
gecko troll you are just too simple minded and boring and monotonous to bother with. bi.


White flag accepted.

Next time, stick to the facts, and don't change the subject.

Nobody is suggesting that this law will be applied to babies.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

Read it again:

" ... terminally ill people over the age of 18, in severe pain and with only a year to live will be able to access lethal drugs."

Now put on your name badge, and get to work.

...

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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #23 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:23pm
 
Now a welcome relief from the scratching on glass screeching of the undead.


Euthanasia debate rages on 21 years after country's first assisted dying case
By Elizabeth Byrne Updated about 5 hours ago

...
PHOTO: Former NT chief minister Marshall Perron passed the laws in the 1990s. (ABC News)

It's 21 years since I was woken from a deep sleep by a call from work: "You have to come in … somebody's used it."

That's how history works, it doesn't always unfold in business hours.

I was the Northern Territory political reporter for the ABC and my colleague Lorraine Davies needed me immediately.

Bob Dent, 66, had become the first person to use the Northern Territory's Rights of the Terminally Ill Act.

I've been thinking about that moment while the Victorian Parliament debated into the night on its own bill.

It's a story that consumed my life for years, and to my surprise led almost back to my own front door.

Bob Dent, you see, lived over my back fence.

I didn't know him, but did meet his wife Judy several times later.

So much of that time is etched into my mind, including the run up the back stairs to the Northern Territory Parliament's press gallery to file the story the bill had passed about 3:30 in the morning.

Woman's fight for right to choose

...
As the Victorian Government considers recommendations to legalise assisted dying, one woman fights for her right to have a choice.

The law was the idea of then-Northern Territory chief minister Marshall Perron, a deeply conservative man with a radical idea.

He was a consummate politician and I doubt anyone else could have pulled it off.

And he forged an unusual alliance with the decidedly activist Dr Philip Nitschke who continues to pursue the case.

At the time many wondered if anyone would be able to use it because the rules were so strict.

In the end it was a Melbourne paper that broke the story … I think they had a mate in the chief minister's office.

In reality, no-one may ever have found out, but Bob Dent wanted to be cremated and not buried, and there was a problem with the Cemeteries Act.

His wife needed to ask the coroner, and from there, via the Melbourne paper, the news filtered out.

'Ham sandwiches and a death machine'

The law was erased by the Federal Parliament in 1997, after then-backbencher Kevin Andrews' private members bill banning the territories from legislating on euthanasia passed both houses.

But the law was in place long enough for four people to use it.

Not much is known about two of them, but I did meet a woman called Janet Mills who used the law to end her own life in 1997.

She was only 52, but had suffered a rare and debilitating disease for many years.

Despite her frailty, she held a press conference at Judy Dent's house, she was so determined to promote the law.

I've never felt comfortable about that — seeing someone so sick surrounded by a hungry media pack.

But it also brought out the best in us like Gay Alcorn, then from The Age, who was based in Darwin.

I still remember her story about the day Bob Dent died.

The dying man, she reported, shared a ham sandwich and a bottle of stout with his wife and Dr Nitschke, before he pushed the buttons on the so-called death machine.

When the law was scuttled by the Kevin Andrews' bill I came to believe there would never be legal voluntary euthanasia in Australia unless one of the states took it on.

There have been many attempts, and it remains to be seen whether the Victorian result will be any different.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-20/euthanasia-decision-victoria-nt-debate/906...
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #24 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:47pm
 
Anybody who has seen a close relative in immense pain from cancer, with tears running down their face, will welcome this ability to die with dignity.

As I see it, most people with a terminal illness just want to settle things with close relatives, before they actually die.

Once that is achieved, they do take an extra dose of morphine or whatever and go to sleep, quietly, while all the favourite relatives are there!

I haven't been there to see this but have been told, several times, that this happens.
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #25 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 6:37pm
 
Yes, but

You cant trust the grubberment

First its only those dying and about to die

Then its thise who are old and no longer have quality of life (and costing the grubberment money)

Then its those who are too old to contribute

Then its those who dont contribute

Then its anybody business thinks is of no use to them

No, its a bad idea, with few if any safety clauses.

Too fast, too soon, not enough rules
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #26 - Oct 20th, 2017 at 7:05pm
 
Neferti wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 4:47pm:
Anybody who has seen a close relative in immense pain from cancer, with tears running down their face, will welcome this ability to die with dignity.

As I see it, most people with a terminal illness just want to settle things with close relatives, before they actually die.

Once that is achieved, they do take an extra dose of morphine or whatever and go to sleep, quietly, while all the favourite relatives are there!

I haven't been there to see this but have been told, several times, that this happens.


Correct.

It comes to a point of commonsense to help the patient 'on his way' with a few extra mg of morphine.

Of more interest to me is the science of Palliative Care which is mostly bullshit for its lack of effectiveness in reducing pain.

I was in hospital for 3 days recently after a tooth extraction that became very painful due to 'Dry Socket'. They pumped me with morphine and other 'pain-killers' to no effect whatsoever.
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #27 - Oct 21st, 2017 at 8:52am
 
Valkie wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 6:37pm:
Yes, but

You cant trust the grubberment

First its only those dying and about to die

Then its thise who are old and no longer have quality of life (and costing the grubberment money)

Then its those who are too old to contribute

Then its those who dont contribute

Then its anybody business thinks is of no use to them

No, its a bad idea, with few if any safety clauses.

Too fast, too soon, not enough rules



Too slow, way overdue.  Too many rules

But ... it's a start
In an ideal world, as I've said often in the past, there would be Death Slots in every main street, whereby the recipient of a death-shot would merely slip a signed statement through a grill before sticking in their arm to receive a dose of Escape-Juice.  Then they'd slide down a chute, similar to mail-sorting belts: one side for burial, the other for cremation.  Done.  Out of here.  Yahoo and hello to what comes next

In tandem with the above should come Death Dates, to be printed on all birth certificates.  ' Jan Jones. DOB xyz.  Date of Death ... 75 years hence if not gone beforehand

Death Dates would set it there in stone. Every time someone has to furnish their DOB, they'd see the date of their demise creeping closer and closer.  A reminder to get the finger out

Death Dates would allow people to organize their lives and would give their offspring a fixed date for when the windfall (if one exists) will arrive.  Death Dates would allow governments, all levels, to organize also

As to the whingers about the Assisted Dying Bill, do I see them protesting against sending people's kids to kill and die overseas in Phony Wars for Profit for the Few?  Nope.  Not a peep out of either Abbott or Keating or their lower ranked co-whingers, either

Anyone, at any time, regardless of health or anything else, should be provided the means via which they may depart this world/dimension/shithole



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All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour
 
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #28 - Oct 21st, 2017 at 9:27am
 
PZ547 wrote on Oct 21st, 2017 at 8:52am:
Valkie wrote on Oct 20th, 2017 at 6:37pm:
Yes, but

You cant trust the grubberment

First its only those dying and about to die

Then its thise who are old and no longer have quality of life (and costing the grubberment money)

Then its those who are too old to contribute

Then its those who dont contribute

Then its anybody business thinks is of no use to them

No, its a bad idea, with few if any safety clauses.

Too fast, too soon, not enough rules



Too slow, way overdue.  Too many rules

But ... it's a start
In an ideal world, as I've said often in the past, there would be Death Slots in every main street, whereby the recipient of a death-shot would merely slip a signed statement through a grill before sticking in their arm to receive a dose of Escape-Juice.  Then they'd slide down a chute, similar to mail-sorting belts: one side for burial, the other for cremation.  Done.  Out of here.  Yahoo and hello to what comes next

In tandem with the above should come Death Dates, to be printed on all birth certificates.  ' Jan Jones. DOB xyz.  Date of Death ... 75 years hence if not gone beforehand

Death Dates would set it there in stone. Every time someone has to furnish their DOB, they'd see the date of their demise creeping closer and closer.  A reminder to get the finger out

Death Dates would allow people to organize their lives and would give their offspring a fixed date for when the windfall (if one exists) will arrive.  Death Dates would allow governments, all levels, to organize also

As to the whingers about the Assisted Dying Bill, do I see them protesting against sending people's kids to kill and die overseas in Phony Wars for Profit for the Few?  Nope.  Not a peep out of either Abbott or Keating or their lower ranked co-whingers, either

Anyone, at any time, regardless of health or anything else, should be provided the means via which they may depart this world/dimension/shithole






hear hear sir PZ547.
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Re: Euthanasia law passed in the lower house ...
Reply #29 - Oct 21st, 2017 at 10:11am
 
hu hummmm not everyone agrees its a good thing.. Smiley



Former prime minister Paul Keating has weighed into the debate, saying allowing patients to kill themselves is unacceptable.

While Victoria’s parliament wades through hundreds of disputed amendments amid a looming government deadline for a vote, Mr Keating is urging against crossing what he calls an “ethical threshold”.

“What matters is that under Victorian law there will be people whose lives we honour and those we believe are better off dead,” he wrote in Fairfax’s papers on Thursday.

“No matter what justifications are offered for the bill, it constitutes an unacceptable departure in our approach to human existence and the irrevocable sanctity that should govern our understanding of what it means to be human.”
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