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How does the Greenhouse effect work? (Read 6604 times)
Jovial Monk
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #15 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 12:22am
 
That is why I told him to keep saying large window, should do wonders for his credibility  Smiley
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lee
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #16 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 11:47am
 
Moriaty wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 11:50pm:
I read your posts and it is clear you find the GHz thing very impressive. But a big number does not necessarily mean a big result.



Except of course if it "proves" AGW. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Jovial Monk
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #17 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 12:25pm
 
Babbling again, Lees.
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Grendel
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #18 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 4:51pm
 
Grendel wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 9:34am:
Wocka Wocka Wocka  more
WAD
eh Monk.
How many times will you repost this crap?
We all know about the Greenhouse Effect.

We all know without it there would be no life as we know it.

It's a good thing, YOU need to recognise that fact and stop conflating it with Catastrophic Warming for a change.

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Jovial Monk
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #19 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 12:51am
 
It is not the sun causing the warming:

Quote:
So, how strongly does the sun currently influence the climate? What is known is that Earth has become warmer by around one degree Celsius over the past 100 years. In the last 30 years alone, temperatures have increased at a rate not seen during the last 1000 years. It is another fact that the carbon dioxide concentration has increased by 30 percent since industrialization began in the mid-18th century.

During this entire period, the sun has been subject to periodic fluctuations in activity. And there has certainly been no increase in the brightness of the sun over the past 30 or 40 years, rather a slight decrease. This means that the sun cannot have contributed to global warming. In fact, the temperature increase noted in recent decades cannot be reproduced in models if only the influence of the sun or other natural sources are taken into account (for example volcanic eruptions). Only when anthropogenic, that is human-driven, factors are incorporated in the climate data, do they agree with the observational and measured data.

The researchers thus arrive at the conclusion that the increase in global temperatures since the 1970s cannot be explained by the sun. The observed temperature trend over the past three decades is linear – if it is a result of the increasing greenhouse gas concentration. In brief: the human influence on the climate is orders of magnitude greater than that of the sun.

On the other hand, the opinion of some scientists that the current decrease in solar activity will counteract global warming, does not stand up to a close examination, as global warming is a fact—and continues to advance. In contrast, it does appear possible that the sun influences the climate in the long term. The exact extent and precise mechanisms remain unclear, however.


https://phys.org/news/2017-08-sun-current-global-temperature.html

The warming since 1970 cannot be explained by the sun. It is only anthropogenic factors that have caused the warming since the end of the 1970s.
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Grendel
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #20 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 9:09am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 26th, 2017 at 12:51am:
It is not the sun causing the warming:

Quote:
So, how strongly does the sun currently influence the climate? What is known is that Earth has become warmer by around one degree Celsius over the past 100 years. In the last 30 years alone, temperatures have increased at a rate not seen during the last 1000 years. It is another fact that the carbon dioxide concentration has increased by 30 percent since industrialization began in the mid-18th century.

During this entire period, the sun has been subject to periodic fluctuations in activity. And there has certainly been no increase in the brightness of the sun over the past 30 or 40 years, rather a slight decrease. This means that the sun cannot have contributed to global warming. In fact, the temperature increase noted in recent decades cannot be reproduced in models if only the influence of the sun or other natural sources are taken into account (for example volcanic eruptions). Only when anthropogenic, that is human-driven, factors are incorporated in the climate data, do they agree with the observational and measured data.

The researchers thus arrive at the conclusion that the increase in global temperatures since the 1970s cannot be explained by the sun. The observed temperature trend over the past three decades is linear – if it is a result of the increasing greenhouse gas concentration. In brief: the human influence on the climate is orders of magnitude greater than that of the sun.

On the other hand, the opinion of some scientists that the current decrease in solar activity will counteract global warming, does not stand up to a close examination, as global warming is a fact—and continues to advance. In contrast, it does appear possible that the sun influences the climate in the long term. The exact extent and precise mechanisms remain unclear, however.


https://phys.org/news/2017-08-sun-current-global-temperature.html

The warming since 1970 cannot be explained by the sun. It is only anthropogenic factors that have caused the warming since the end of the 1970s.

Wrong.
Energy in the System is created by the Sun...  there is no other source.

You seem to also fail to remember that YOU ALARMISTS first spoke of Warming then Cooling then Warming then Dimming then Warming and then gave up completely and Called it Climate Change since then. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Jovial Monk
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #21 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 9:38am
 
I have only used AGW.

The sun oscillates over decades between more and less active states. The warming we have seen since the 1970s occurred when the sun was in a less active state. The warming is not due to the sun [being more active.]

What will happen in a couple decades when the sun gets more active?


Is the above language simple enough for you to understand, roach, or do I need to use smaller words and even simpler concepts?
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lee
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #22 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 2:18pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 26th, 2017 at 12:51am:
The observed temperature trend over the past three decades is linear – if it is a result of the increasing greenhouse gas concentration.



Good point. Of course we do know the effects of CO2 are logarithmic NOT linear. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Jovial Monk
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #23 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 2:31pm
 
So, Lees?? You now say CO2 does have an effect.

Can you advise why the effect of CO2 seems linear tho you say the effect is logarithmic?
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Jovial Monk
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #24 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 2:32pm
 
.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #25 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 2:34pm
 
One reason could be that the oceans absorb a lot of the heat. However, there is a more direct reason.
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lee
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #26 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 2:40pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 26th, 2017 at 2:31pm:
So, Lees?? You now say CO2 does have an effect.

Can you advise why the effect of CO2 seems linear tho you say the effect is logarithmic?


Your comprehension issues again. I was quoting part of the paper you posted.

Theoretically CO2 does have an effect. How much?
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Jovial Monk
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #27 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 2:43pm
 
No, if CO2 seems to have a linear effect when it grows logarithmically how can that be?
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Ajax
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CO2 has never controlled
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #28 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 2:58pm
 
The logarithmic effect of CO2


...
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Ajax
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Re: How does the Greenhouse effect work?
Reply #29 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 2:58pm
 
Quote:
Below are some of the key user-friendly (non-technical) points from Dr. Reinhart’s paper entitled Infrared absorption of atmospheric carbon dioxide.

A summarizing conclusion from the calculations may be that if we doubled today’s concentration (400 ppm) to 800 ppm, the consequent temperature response would be less than 1/4th of a degree Celsius.  Even with a ten-fold increase in today’s CO2 concentration (400 ppm) to 4,000 ppm, the resulting temperature change would amount to just 0.8°C

https://iowaclimate.org/2017/07/17/page/2/



60 Papers Find Extremely Low CO2 Climate Sensitivity


Florides and Christodoulides, 2009 (2X CO2 = ~0.02°C
Newell and Dopplick, 1979 (2X CO2 = ~.0.25°C )
Idso, 1998 (2X CO2 = ~0.4°C)
Chylek et al., 2007 (2X CO2 = 0.39°C)
Gates et al., 1981 (2X CO2 = 0.3°C)
Gray, 2009 (2X CO2 = ~0.4°C)
Harde, 2014 (2X CO2 = 0.6°C)
Ollila, 2012 (2X CO2 = 0.51 °C)
Zdunkowski et al., 1975., 1975 (2X CO2 = 0.5°C)
Idso, 1980 (2X CO2 = ≤ 0.26°C )
Schuurmans, 1983 (2XCO2 = ~0.3°C )
Weare and Snell, 1974 (2X CO2 = 0.7°C )
Lindzen and Choi, 2011 (2X CO2 = 0.7°C)
Kimoto, 2015  [full] (2X CO2= ~0.16°C)
Ollila, 2014 (2X CO2 = ~ 0.27°C)
Harde, 2016 (2X CO2 = 0.7°C)
Bates, 2016  (2X CO2 = ~1°C)
Evans, 2016 (2X CO2 = <0.5°C)
Gervais, 2016 [full]  (2X CO2  = <0.6°C)
Soon, Connolly, and Connolly, 2015 [full] (2X [400 ppm] CO2 = 0.44°C)
Reinhart, 2017 (2X [400 ppm] CO2 = 0.24°C)
Balling Jr, 1994  (2XCO2 = <1.0°C)
Bellamy, 2007  (2XCO2= <1.0°C)
Chillingar, 2009
Miskolczi, 2010
Möller, 1963
Singer, 2006
Willett, 1974
Sagan and Mullen, 1972
Oliver, 1976
Clark, 2010  (full paper)
Ramanathan et al., 1989
Khilyuk and Chilingar, 2006  (full)
Newell and Dopplick, 1970
Manabe and Möller, 1961
Libby, 1970
Gervais, 2014
Rasool and Schneider, 1971
Chilingar et al., 2014
Ludwig et al., 1973
Singer, 1976
Kauppinen et al., 2014
Lightfoot and Mamer, 2014
Arrak, 2011
Kahl et al., 1993
Robock, 1979
Fang et al., 2011
Hertzberg et al., 2017
Sawyer, 1972
Gerlich and Tscheuschner, 2009
Miskolczi, 2014
Ollila, 2013
Dyson, 1977
Hertzberg and Schreuder, 2016
Avakyan, 2013
Zhao, 2011
Choudhury and Kukla, 1979
Idso, 1984
Ellsaesser, 1984  (full)
Bryson and Dittberner, 1976
Schmithüsen et al., 2015

http://notrickszone.com/50-papers-low-sensitivity/#sthash.gQZR0TyB.dpbs
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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