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2GW windpower offshore of Scotland (Read 12368 times)
lee
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #60 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 11:13am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 10:13am:
If you were to look at the actual figures you might be surprised and that is with coal being allowed to vent all its waste products, its pollution and not just carbon pollution, into the atmosphere without penalty.



Is that particulate emission for which they have scrubbers?

Do you mean Carbon Dioxide pollution? Or Carbon particulate pollution?
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Rider
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #61 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 3:29pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 10:13am:
Rider wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 10:02am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 9:14am:
No energy company is all that anxious to build more coal fired power stations. So forget that idea.

Coal fired power stations are losing the battle against renewable energy even tho they can spew CO2, particulates, uranium and cadmium into the atmosphere without penalty.

Renewables are becoming cheaper than coal.



Other than hydro, there is no metric where are renewables cheaper than coal powered electricity generation .




If you were to look at the actual figures you might be surprised and that is with coal being allowed to vent all its waste products, its pollution and not just carbon pollution, into the atmosphere without penalty.


We should tax the BS pollution you dribble constantly,  no child wouldd live in poverty then.

Carbon dioxide.... you mean that irrelevent trace gas.....
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #62 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 5:47pm
 
“. . .irrelevant trace gas. . .”

...

Somehow that “irrelevant trace gas” seems to be doing something. Since you probably can’t work out the graph I posted it shows that over a period of years the CO2 in the atmosphere has reflected infra red radiation back to the surface.

The surface is trying to lose heat by radiation so if a significant part of the radiation gets reflected back to the surface then it necessarily warms, can’t get rid of the heat.

The graph shows that as CO2 increases with time the amount of IR blocked from escaping the surface increases. Also, within each year you see the carbon cycle: CO2 high in winter then decreases in spring and summer as plants grow, deciduous trees put on leaves etc, all of this affecting the amount of IR that can escape to space and the amount that is blocked and sent back to the surface.

Pretty good for a “trace gas” eh?

Another reason why this “trace gas” bullshit does not hold water: CO2 and water vapor combine to allow only a small window of IR frequencies through which IR can escape.
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lee
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #63 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 6:03pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 5:47pm:
Also, within each year you see the carbon cycle: CO2 high in winter then decreases in spring and summer as plants grow, deciduous trees put on leaves etc, all of this affecting the amount of IR that can escape to space and the amount that is blocked and sent back to the surface.


We knew CO2 was not a well mixed gas. Thanks for confirming that. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #64 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 6:12pm
 
Didn’t take you long to get here? You really have notifications turned on? Such behavior is so odd in one who says he is so comfortable with CO2 and everything! So very odd!

My post was addressed to Rider but you HAD to put your 2˘ in didn’t you, Lees? Thought you were comfortable with CO2? So very odd.
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #65 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 6:42pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 6:12pm:
Didn’t take you long to get here? You really have notifications turned on? Such behavior is so odd in one who says he is so comfortable with CO2 and everything! So very odd!

My post was addressed to Rider but you HAD to put your 2˘ in didn’t you, Lees? Thought you were comfortable with CO2? So very odd.



I am. It is obvious.  You didn't address the statement of the well-mixed gas. You're slipping. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

How odd are you? Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #66 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 6:56pm
 
“. . .irrelevant trace gas. . .”

...

Somehow that “irrelevant trace gas” seems to be doing something. Since you probably can’t work out the graph I posted it shows that over a period of years the CO2 in the atmosphere has reflected infra red radiation back to the surface.

The surface is trying to lose heat by radiation so if a significant part of the radiation gets reflected back to the surface then it necessarily warms, can’t get rid of the heat.

The graph shows that as CO2 increases with time the amount of IR blocked from escaping the surface increases. Also, within each year you see the carbon cycle: CO2 high in winter then decreases in spring and summer as plants grow, deciduous trees put on leaves etc, all of this affecting the amount of IR that can escape to space and the amount that is blocked and sent back to the surface.

Pretty good for a “trace gas” eh?

Another reason why this “trace gas” bullshit does not hold water: CO2 and water vapor combine to allow only a small window of IR frequencies through which IR can escape.
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lee
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #67 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 7:32pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 6:56pm:
Another reason why this “trace gas” bullshit does not hold water: CO2 and water vapor combine to allow only a small window of IR frequencies through which IR can escape.



That's not what Harries shows. Wink

Correlation is causation eh?
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #68 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:55pm
 
H2O is a condensing GHG so studies normally remove the influence of water vapor. The other gases increase in concentration over time as we continue burning fossil fuels.

Lees knows this but his desperation forces him to constantly cover up the effect of the CO2 he says he is comfortable with  Wink

This chart:

...

shows the effect of CO2 really well. What it charts is CO2 concentration and the amount of infrared radiation redirected back down to the surface.

Have a good look at it, it makes AGW denial just ridiculous.

The world receives energy, light, ultraviolet and near–IR radiation from the sun which warms the planet. It can only get rid of excess heat by radiation: infra red.

It has been known for 200 years that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and just as well it is a greenhouse gas too: the world would be bloody chilly without it! However, since the industrial revolution picked up, errr, steam we have been creating and emitting CO2 by burning fossil fuels and the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by 46% since 1880. So, as a direct result, have temperatures.

Lees has dragged up another stale argument “CO2 is not a wellmixed gas” which is wrong. Not only that the chart above shows the carbon cycle not geographical dispersion. Stations from the Arctic to the Antarctic have shown the same increase in CO2.

But with more and more CO2 and other GHGs in the atmosphere means the planet is warming up, like a car engine with insufficient coolant in the radiator.
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #69 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 2:04pm
 
Costs of on and off shore windfarms:

https://www.irena.org/DocumentDownloads/Publications/RE_Technologies_Cost_Analys...

Offshore is higher cost (building and maintaining) but may generate more electricity per turbine if it gets more constant or stronger wind.
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #70 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 5:50pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 2:04pm:
but may generate more electricity per turbine if it gets more constant or stronger wind.



You mean like a fossil fuel plant may generate more electricity if we up the increase the fuel?  Wink
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #71 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:15pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:55pm:
It has been known for 200 years that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and just as well it is a greenhouse gas too: the world would be bloody chilly without it!


"Water is the main absorber of the sunlight in the atmosphere; without it, the Earth would be in a permanent ice-age. The [highlight]13 million million tons of water in the atmosphere (~0.33% by weight; compare CO2 ~0.04% ) is responsible for about 70% of all atmospheric absorption of radiation[/highlight], mainly in the infrared region where water shows strong absorption."

http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/water_vibrational_spectrum.html

That makes all the all the other GHG's responsible for ~30% of warming. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 1:55pm:
Lees has dragged up another stale argument “CO2 is not a wellmixed gas” which is wrong. Not only that the chart above shows the carbon cycle not geographical dispersion. Stations from the Arctic to the Antarctic have shown the same increase in CO2.


If it was a well mixed gas it would not vary over time,  It would be instantaneous.

As for geographical dispersion we have NASA's OCO-2 for that.

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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #72 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:23pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 20th, 2017 at 6:56pm:
Also, within each year you see the carbon cycle: CO2 high in winter then decreases in spring and summer as plants grow



Actually, if you look at NASA's video, CO2 increases over Spring and Summer. The trees are dormant in winter.

You can check the time stamp at bottom right.
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #73 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 6:31pm
 
No gas mixes over all the atmosphere instantaneously, you don’t understand what a well mixed gas is. CO2 has risen over the whole planet, sounds like a well mixed gas to me.
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Re: 2GW windpower offshore of Scotland
Reply #74 - Aug 21st, 2017 at 7:57pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21st, 2017 at 2:04pm:
Costs of on and off shore windfarms:

https://www.irena.org/DocumentDownloads/Publications/RE_Technologies_Cost_Analys...

Offshore is higher cost (building and maintaining) but may generate more electricity per turbine if it gets more constant or stronger wind.



I notice the use of words like 'may' and 'if' feature in your post...not very inspiring, but I guess its enough for the useful idiots to chant along.
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