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Poll closed Poll
Question: Should Australia consider changing to nuclear energy generation?
*** This poll has now closed ***


No—too much danger    
  4 (80.0%)
Yes—AGW, baseload power    
  1 (20.0%)
Don’t know    
  0 (0.0%)




Total votes: 5
« Created by: Jovial Monk on: Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:42am »

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Should we switch to nuclear power generation? (Read 15327 times)
lee
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #195 - Aug 4th, 2017 at 10:42pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 7:10pm:
Many, like Lees know AGW is warming the world but won’t admit it to himself because acting on AGW means change and some people fear change more than anything.


Pretending to speak for others is a sure sign you have lost the plot.
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #196 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 8:59am
 
Grendel wrote on Aug 4th, 2017 at 6:34pm:
The greener nuclear alternative

By Tim Dean

If the Fukushima nuclear reactors were based on thorium instead of uranium, the current nuclear crisis in Japan right now wouldn’t be happening.

Thorium is a superior nuclear fuel to uranium in almost every conceivable way, yet we hear almost nothing about it in the contemporary hubbub about nuclear power. If there is such a thing as green nuclear power, thorium is it.

For one, a thorium-powered nuclear reactor can never undergo a meltdown. It just can’t. This is because thorium is slightly lighter than uranium and is not fissile – meaning you can pack as much of the stuff together as you want and it won’t undergo a runaway chain reaction.

Instead, you need to inject a smidge of energy into a thorium reactor to kick it off. Some designs use uranium or plutonium as a seed. An even safer design uses a particle beam to trigger the reaction. If there’s a problem, you switch off the beam, and the reactor cools down of its own accord. The meltdown is averted by simply doing nothing.

That’s a fundamental about-face compared to the current uranium reactors, where the normal operating state requires constant intervention to actively prevent a meltdown.

Thorium is also thoroughly useless for making nuclear weapons. That was once seen as a barrier to its adoption for electricity generation because, after all, the nuclear power industry was originally an offshoot of the nuclear weapons industry. Uranium was chosen as the fuel of choice precisely because its by-products, like plutonium-239, could be made into atomic bombs.

Another consequence of thorium being lighter than uranium is it produces far less of the toxic by-products that constitute a large proportion of the high-level radioactive waste generated by nuclear power plants.

Where a uranium-powered reactor creates tonnes of waste over its lifetime that remain toxic for 10,000 years, a thorium-powered reactor produces a fraction of that waste, and what is produced is only toxic for around 500 years.
Clearly, building a facility to last 500 years is a challenging prospect, but it sure beats trying to build one to remain safe for ten millennia.

But wait, there’s more.

Thorium doesn’t only produce less waste, it can be used to consume existing waste. Stick in some of your old reactor waste by-products, or even unwanted weapons-grade material, and a thorium reactor will burn it up, leaving a far less unsavoury residue.

Thorium itself is also highly abundant, far more so than uranium. In fact, Australia has some of the largest reserves of thorium to be found anywhere in the world. Extracting it from the ground is simplicity itself compared to uranium, and far softer on the environment.

It also doesn’t need enrichment; the vast bulk of uranium (around 99.3 per cent) pulled from the ground is unsuitable for a nuclear reactor, so it needs to be spun in centrifuges to extract the minute amounts of useful fissile uranium-235 material from the relatively idle uranium-238.Thorium, on the other hand, can be used straight out of the ground, meaning it can generate around 40 times more energy per tonne mined compared to uranium.

I could go on.

But, in short, thorium is easy to get at, can generate our much-needed baseload power without the risk of a meltdown, without the weapons proliferation risks of uranium, it produces far less waste, it consumes existing waste, and there are several reactor designs that have already been tested and shown to work.

Now, I’m not going to say that thorium is the only answer to our energy needs. It certainly still has its drawbacks – 500 years is still a long time to stand guard over your garbage – but it could provide that all-important stop-gap between existing dirty coal power and the future sustainable energy technologies, or even the holy grail, nuclear fusion.

India has already built a number of experimental reactors, and is investing heavily in the technology. There’s nothing except political will stopping Australia from doing the same. If the technology works, it could come into high demand from around the world, and Australia could doubly do its part in reducing carbon emissions by generating thorium nuclear power at home, and helping spread the technology abroad. We might even make a buck in the process, offsetting the R&D and initial capital costs.

If this country, and others around the world, are going to engage in a debate about nuclear power, we owe it to ourselves to look beyond the relatively primitive 20th century technologies that stir so much ire in the public, and look towards safer, more sophisticated 21st century technologies. Like thorium nuclear power.



Good post - I wish that Jovial would read it.
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #197 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 9:00am
 
Jovial - get an education - Thorium is the answer not Uranium.








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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #198 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 9:41am
 
We can’t wait for thorium to be developed.
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #199 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 11:43am
 
It certainly should be in the mix in a geologically stable continent.
An opportunity foregone.
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #200 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 11:48am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 5th, 2017 at 9:41am:
We can’t wait for thorium to be developed.



Our Govt. will never develop it -
they are more worried about poofter rights.
The whole lot of them should be sacked by the GG.
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #201 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 12:22pm
 
OUR GOVERNMENT should be backing all sorts of R&D in energy production.

We could be leading the world, except they are myopic.
Both major parties lack vision and talent.
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #202 - Aug 5th, 2017 at 1:19pm
 
Marriage equality is something that could be enabled in 5 minutes, just turdfull doesn’t have the guts. Energy security, the inclusion of nuclear plus renewables is a longer term thing. No clash.
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #203 - Aug 6th, 2017 at 9:17am
 
In the meantime, Hazelwood has closed and nothing is being done to replace it. Brown coal is very dirty, lots of CO2 and other emissions per unit of electricity.

I am not proposing nuclear to replace Hazelwood in the short term. I am proposing nuclear as a part of the mix of future energy supply.

In response I got the usual NIMBY crap.

Now that that is past, maybe a more mature and informed debate can take place?

I don’t think geothermal is going to have much of a place in our energy mix. In Queensland much of the ground rock above the hot rocks is fractured, the steam would just dissipate before it got to the surface. The Cooper Basin is more promising but would require a lot of investment. So scratch geothermal.

So renewable energy is solar and wind. Don’t think wave or tide has seen much devopment or success in trials.

So coal or nuclear is needed. Coal is dirtier than nuclear and causes more deaths and then there is the CO2 emitted. Sequestration and burial of CO2 is too expensive so that just leaves nuclear.

Will we achieve the 2°C limit to temperature increases? Probably not. That means: scratch corn, wheat and rice as the source of 20–30% of calories and protein.

Oh, but we can’t have nuclear! Teh radioactivity! Teh waste! Teh money to build run and dispose of nuclear generators. Claims we should wait for teh thorium is just another way of saying: no nuclear energy!

Welcome to a world without wheat!

Beef prices in the US are soaring due to droughts in Texas and California, picture that happening worldwide. No wheat, no beef. What a wonderful life we are bequeathing our kids and grandkids!
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #204 - Aug 6th, 2017 at 9:25am
 
dear Jovial,
It is a sign that our politicians have had no vision that
we don't have Thorium power by now.
India & China have over 1000 scientists working on it.

As I said they are more worried about poofters than our future energy needs.
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #205 - Aug 6th, 2017 at 9:26am
 
Thorium is just an excuse not to do anything.
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #206 - Aug 6th, 2017 at 9:31am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 6th, 2017 at 9:26am:
Thorium is just an excuse not to do anything.


If you knew what you were talking about you'd know
that the Yanks already had a Thorium reactor producing power in the 1960s.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power

The MSRE reactor, built at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, operated critical for roughly 15,000 hours from 1965 to 1969.

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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #207 - Aug 6th, 2017 at 10:16am
 
Sounds like an experiment that did not give a satisfactory result.

We should start now building a uranium fuelled generator. No time for games.
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #208 - Aug 6th, 2017 at 10:31am
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 6th, 2017 at 10:16am:
Sounds like an experiment that did not give a satisfactory result.

We should start now building a uranium fuelled generator. No time for games.



Why when a few more years of research will make Uranium obsolete & too dangerous in comparison to Thorium -
walk away safe!
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #209 - Aug 6th, 2017 at 10:42am
 
Nah, pie in the sky.

Anyway, a lot of planning and preparation can be made now and the type of reactor chosen later. Stick with the tried and true techniques.
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