Australian Politics Forum - Should we switch to nuclear power generation?

Bobby. Moderator Online Australian Politics Posts: 122125 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation? Reply #135 - Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:30pm Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:27pm: Government narrative? bwahahahaha! Go back to your flat earth and other crap. master Light is right, you knew nothing about: nuclear reactor high pressures neutron embrittlement long half lives of isotopes
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation? Reply #136 - Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:34pm We cannot go on burning coal. We have to replace the coal fired power stations that will close over the next two decades. Coal is more dangerous than nuclear. Has killed more people than all the nuclear accidents. AGW mandates that we move away from coal.
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Bobby.

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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #137 - Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:36pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:34pm:

We cannot go on burning coal.

We have to replace the coal fired power stations that will close over the next two decades.

Coal is more dangerous than nuclear. Has killed more people than all the nuclear accidents.

AGW mandates that we move away from coal.

Jovial,
How much does it cost to decommission a nuclear power

station & look after the waste for 100 million years?

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation? Reply #138 - Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:37pm How much does it cost to build a fleet of rockets so we can fly away to another planet when we have cooked this one?
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Bobby.

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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #139 - Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:40pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:37pm:

How much does it cost to build a fleet of rockets so we can fly away to another planet when we have cooked this one?

Don't be a smart arse - I don't support burning of coal.
I told you that we should have been investigating Thorium.

You haven't answered my questions.

Jovial,
How much does it cost to decommission a nuclear power

station & look after the waste for 100 million years?

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #140 - Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:40pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:12pm:

Here is a report on deaths caused by mining and burning coal:

Quote:

Energy accidents
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deepwater Horizon oil spill discharges 4.9 million barrels. (2010)

Rescue effort after the 2014 Soma mine disaster in Manisa, Turkey, where over 300 miners lost their lives.

Energy resources bring with them great social and economic promise, providing financial growth for communities and energy services for local economies. However, the infrastructure which delivers energy services can break down in an energy accident, sometimes causing much damage, and energy fatalities can occur, and with many systems often deaths will happen even when the systems are working as intended.

Historically, coal mining has been the most dangerous energy activity and the list of historical coal mining disasters is a long one. Underground mining hazards include suffocation, gas poisoning, roof collapse and gas explosions. Open cut mining hazards are principally mine wall failures and vehicle collisions. In the US alone, more than 100,000 coal miners have been killed in accidents over the past century,[1] with more than 3,200 dying in 1907 alone.[2]

According to Benjamin K. Sovacool, 279 major energy accidents occurred from 1907 to 2007 and they caused 182,156 deaths with $41 billion in property damages, with these figures not including deaths from smaller accidents.[3]

However, by far the greatest energy fatalities that result from energy generation by humanity, is the creation of air pollution. The most lethal of which, particulate matter, which is primarily generated from the burning of fossil fuels and biomass is (counting outdoor air pollution effects only) estimated to cause 2.1 million deaths annually.[4][5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_accidents

And this does not cover the major problem with coal: AGW.

Coal/oil/gas accidents have caused more deaths than nuclear accidents. Emissions from coal fired power stations have killed a great many more people than nuclear accidents. Burning fossil fuels causes AGW.

Need to strike a balance, not act like old spinsters seeing a mouse.

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Bobby. Moderator Online Australian Politics Posts: 122125 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation? Reply #141 - Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:48pm Jovial, How much does it cost to decommission a nuclear power station & look after the waste for 100 million years?
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Jovial Monk

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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #142 - Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:54pm

How much does it cost to build a huge fleet of rockets so we can head to a new planet when this one is so ravaged by AGW we can no longer live here?

I hear:

Ooh, nukular {sucks teeth} dangerous! (Safer than fossil fuel mining and burning)

Costs $$$ to build, decommission, store. What will it cost to act against AGW in 50 years time?

There is a balance of risks.

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rhino

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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #143 - Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:06am

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 24^th, 2017 at 11:40pm:

Coal/oil/gas accidents have caused more deaths than nuclear accidents. Emissions from coal fired power stations have killed a great many more people than nuclear accidents.

Of course they have, coal has been used for thousands of years on a worldwide basis, gas for 200 years and oil for 100 years. Nuclear power plants have been around 70 years and most countries dont have them with a tiny fraction of the worlds power supplied by these.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation? Reply #144 - Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:07am I meant in a similar time frame.
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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation? Reply #145 - Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:08am Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:07am: I meant in a similar time frame. Show this. I challenge your claim. Provide death statistics.
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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #146 - Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:10am

Quote:

Background: Air pollution is known to cause respiratory disease. Unlike motor vehicle sources, fuel-fired power plants are stationary.

Objective: Using hospitalization data, we examined whether living near a fuel-fired power plant increases the likelihood of hospitalization for respiratory disease.

Methods: Rates of hospitalization for asthma, acute respiratory infection (ARI), and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) were estimated using hospitalization data for 1993–2008 from New York State in relation to data for residences near fuel-fired power plants. We also explored data for residential proximity to hazardous waste sites.

Results: After adjusting for age, sex, race, median household income, and rural/urban residence, there were significant 11%, 15%, and 17% increases in estimated rates of hospitalization for asthma, ARI, and COPD, respectively, among individuals > 10 years of age living in a ZIP code containing a fuel-fired power plant compared with one that had no power plant. Living in a ZIP code with a fuel-fired power plant was not significantly associated with hospitalization for asthma or ARI among children < 10 years of age. Living in a ZIP code with a hazardous waste site was associated with hospitalization for all outcomes in both age groups, and joint effect estimates were approximately additive for living in a ZIP code that contained a fuel-fired power plant and a hazardous waste site.

Conclusions: Our results are consistent with the hypothesis that exposure to air pollution from fuel-fired power plants and volatile compounds coming from hazardous waste sites increases the risk of hospitalization for respiratory diseases.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3385425/

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #147 - Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:12am

Quote:

Summary
In addition to the environmental and human health harm caused by greenhouse gas emissions, coal-fired power plants emit massive amounts of toxic air pollutants that result in significant numbers of deaths and disease. We estimate that between roughly 6000 and 10,700 annual deaths from heart ailments, respiratory disease and lung cancer can be attributed to the 88 coalfired power plants and companies receiving public international financing.

This range of estimated mortality reflects different assumptions regarding use of air pollution control technologies in plants for which this information was not obtainable. Air pollution from coal-fired power plants is also associated with other health outcomes, including infant deaths, asthma and other lung diseases.

Estimates of the number of people experiencing these additional health outcomes were not made in this study, as the necessary data from the countries where the power plants are located were not available. This suggests that the deaths estimated here represent only a portion of a larger overall health burden related to air pollution from these power plants.

https://www.edf.org/sites/default/files/9553_coal-plants-health-impacts.pdf

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rhino Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17179 Gender:	Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation? Reply #148 - Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:21am N0 one here wants coal you nincompoop. Wake up. You are arguing a non existent premise you silly old duffer.
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Jovial Monk

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Re: Should we switch to nuclear power generation?
Reply #149 - Jul 25^th, 2017 at 12:26am

Of course, we could ignore nuclear and go all out on renewables. Would need storage and a multiplicity of sources: wind, solar, geothermal, tide, wave etc.

Still need baseload for industry. Find it hard to think we can provide continual power without some non–intermittent source and the only one that will not cause GHG emissions is nuclear.

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Poll
Question: Should Australia consider changing to nuclear energy generation?
* This poll has now closed *
No—too much danger 4 (80.0%) Yes—AGW, baseload power 1 (20.0%) Don’t know 0 (0.0%) Total votes: 5 « Created by: Jovial Monk on: Jul 25^th, 2017 at 10:42am »