Australian Politics Forum - Action on AGW, is it enough?

lee

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #270 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 12:06pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 10:39am:

As increasing GHGs in the atmosphere block more and more infrared photons from leaving the planet we expect the globe to continue warming. No other conclusion is possible.

Why do you keep forgetting "All other things being equal"?
Or is it that you just want to ignore it?

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #271 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 2:12pm

Nothing is radically different.

Sun still in a quiescent state.

Laws of physics haven’t changed.

An asteroid hasn’t crashed to earth completely destroying life.

Volcanic activity hasn’t increased.

I would say everything is equal and GHGs are blocking IR photons from escaping so heating the earth.

Can you dispute any of that?

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lee

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #272 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:11pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 2:12pm:

Can you dispute any of that?

What about the question you didn't ask? Water vapour. Is that still equal?

Has precipitation globally increased, decreased or stayed the same?

How about wind speed, speed of rotation of the earth?

Think. I suspect you can do it. Wink

BTW - What do the laws of physics say about climate sensitivity?

“The increase in opacity due to a doubling of CO2 causes [the characteristic emission level ZC] to rise by ~150 meters. This results in a reduction in the effective temperature of the emission across the tropopause by ~(6.5K/km)(150 m) ≈ 1 K, which converts to 4 W m–2 using the Stefan-Boltzmann law.”

Soden& Held (2006)

So their implicit central estimate κ≈ 1 / 4 ≈ 0.250 °K W–1 m2.

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« Last Edit: Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:18pm by lee »

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #273 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:27pm

Speed of rotation of the earth? Grin

Water vapor—will generally increase as the planet warms, eh?

Nah, other things are equal. Sun might move into a more active state in 2019, wonder what that will do to the rate and amount of warming? But that is still in accordance with the laws of physics etc.

So, having quoted the above you now agree GHGs do absorb IR photons, causing AGW?

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lee

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #274 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:34pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:27pm:

Speed of rotation of the earth? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

So what would you expect the speed of rotation of the earth to do with all that Arctic and Antarctic melt?

What effect would that have on wind speed?

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:27pm:

Water vapor—will generally increase as the planet warms, eh?

So ALL things have not stayed the same. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:27pm:

So, having quoted the above you now agree GHGs do absorb IR photons,

I never denied that. I argued your next position -
Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:27pm:

causing AGW?

I have said that any warming is down in the noise.

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TheFunPolice

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #275 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:56pm

lee wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:34pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:27pm:

Speed of rotation of the earth? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

So what would you expect the speed of rotation of the earth to do with all that Arctic and Antarctic melt?

What effect would that have on wind speed?

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:27pm:

Water vapor—will generally increase as the planet warms, eh?

So ALL things have not stayed the same. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:27pm:

So, having quoted the above you now agree GHGs do absorb IR photons,

I never denied that. I argued your next position -
Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:27pm:

causing AGW?

I have said that any warming is down in the noise.

Lee uses circular logic to drive his kids insane: oh what a nasty nazi his daddykins must have been Cheesy

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #276 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:13pm

Yeah, both poles melting away but “AGW is down in the noise.” Wink

Seen any temperature charts? Down in the noise??? Nah, escaping the reality of AGW.

How bloody pathetic!

GHGs absorb IR photons heading to space from the surface, causing heating. That is as certain as anything can be certain in this vale of tears!

{laughs} sad really, this ducking of reality, of responsibility.

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Grendel

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #277 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:14pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 3:27pm:

Speed of rotation of the earth? Grin

Our planet's rotation produces a force on all bodies moving relative to the Earth. Due to Earth's approximately spherical shape, this force is greatest at the poles and least at the Equator. The force, called the "Coriolis effect," causes the direction of winds and ocean currents to be deflected.

Water vapor—will generally increase as the planet warms, eh?

NASA considers,Water Vapour a major player in global warming its atmospheric percentage by far outweighs any other gas.

Nah, other things are equal. Sun might move into a more active state in 2019, wonder what that will do to the rate and amount of warming? But that is still in accordance with the laws of physics etc.

Nope Earth's orbit, rotation, angle of tilt (which changes), etc all affect the climate. A more active Sun increases the radiation output reaching the Earth.

So, having quoted the above you now agree GHGs do absorb IR photons, causing AGW?

More repetitive crap? Cheesy

I doubt YOU even know what a photon is or about the wave properties of light or wave-particle duality.

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Grendel

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #278 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:20pm

The word BUFFOON comes to mind everytime you spout crap monk.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:13pm:

Yeah, both poles melting away but “AGW is down in the noise.” Wink

Seen any temperature charts? Down in the noise??? Nah, escaping the reality of AGW.

How bloody pathetic!

GHGs absorb IR photons heading to space from the surface, causing heating. That is as certain as anything can be certain in this vale of tears!

{laughs} sad really, this ducking of reality, of responsibility.

I'll try to explain this simply for you...

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #279 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:25pm

Earths orbit or degree of tilt haven’t changed nor has the speed of rotation or we would have to add extra seconds to the day.

Water vapor we know is a major greenhouse player. It leaves but a small window for IR to escape from earth. Increasingly, CO2, methane, and nitrous oxide block that window. As the “window” is blocked and the globe heats up there tends to be more water vapor in the atmosphere. But H2O is not a GHG in the sense it accumulates like the other GHGs, it does precipitate out as rain etc.

This has been discussed ad nauseum here. Not new at all.

We have discussed everything and little doubt is possible but that the globe is heating up. We just have Lee’s neurotic need to avoid admitting that we are causing the warming by burning fossil fuels.

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Grendel

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #280 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:27pm

Did you notice where its says... and I quote.

MOST OF THIS I.R. ESCAPES BACK INTO OUTER SPACE.

We all know about GHGs... but you seem to forget this one pertinent fact.

You then go on to forget about how complex climate is and about the facts there are positive and negative feedbacks.
That heat is also absorbed by the Earth itself.

You seem to ignore that facts that we have been frozen before and that we are now in an interglacial period.

Yes the Earth is a dynamic planet with dynamic systems climate being one of them... warming cooling warming cooling.... been happening longer than Man has been on the planet. Cheesy

Do you care to refute any of that? Roll Eyes

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #281 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:42pm

Mankind is causing warming by burning fossil fuels. That GHGs in the atmosphere absorb some photons (note the “some??”) of IR and prevent them warming the earth. Warming it so much this interglacial likely won’t end, not until the next major ice age 80,000 years away.

I never said GHGs absorb and block ALL IR, roach!

Sea levels are on the rise, soon to rise even further as Antarctica begins its melt on the Peninsula and even more on West Antarctica.

Wildfire seasons are longer and the fires more damaging

Extreme heat events are more common.

The science of AGW is as settled as science ever is.

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lee

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #282 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:46pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:25pm:

Earths orbit or degree of tilt haven’t changed nor has the speed of rotation or we would have to add extra seconds to the day.

"Rising Sea Levels Shown To Slow Down Earth's Rotation"

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/rising-sea-levels-shown-actually-slow-down...

An alarmist.

" The next leap second will be at the end of December 2005. The one before that was December 1998."

http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/leapsec.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_second

So it has been known for a while. Wink

Another example of JM shooting from the Lip. Grin

The ozpols expert on everything.

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lee

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #283 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:51pm

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:42pm:

The science of AGW is as settled as science ever is.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:42pm:

soon to rise even further as Antarctica begins its melt on the Peninsula and even more on West Antarctica.

Once the net increase stops, if it does.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:42pm:

Wildfire seasons are longer

Only if you ignore the longer time data and take it from 1973.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:42pm:

Extreme heat events are more common.

Not according to the science.

WOW. AGW exaggeration is as settled as the pseudo-science.

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Jovial Monk

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Re: Action on AGW, is it enough?
Reply #284 - Jul 21^st, 2017 at 4:51pm

Quote:

The Earth’s axial spin will change slightly if the distribution of the planet’s mass begins to change, which includes the change caused by moving frozen water mass on land into the sea.

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/rising-sea-levels-shown-actually-slow-down...

Maybe in 20 years time? Again, this change is a consequence of AGW, not a change imposed externally, e.g. by changes in the state of the sun, volcanoes, huge asteroids.

Leap seconds are to do with the earths revolution around the sun.

Oops, now who is shooting from the lip?

Why do you deny AGW is warming the globe, Lees? Really curious, you do it to an extent that looks neurotic.

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