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Ice watch (Read 20968 times)
lee
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #615 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 2:12pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 1:30pm:
The icemelt on Greenland surface has been pretty close to median



Did you mean the MEAN?

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 1:30pm:
and we know iceloss at sealevel was pretty heavy this year.


Do we? Have you documented proof? Or is it merely an assertion?

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 1:30pm:
See the average figure for Greenland iceloss? 281 Gtons wasn’t it?


Didn't Greenland put on icemass this year?

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 1:30pm:
It retreated in 20 years as much as it had retreated in the previous 100 years.



Wow, Glaciers retreat, who knew? Did you know they also advance? Wink
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #616 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 2:44pm
 
And....  wait for it...  this year it put on ICEMASS... ie; the ICEMASS increased.
I'm sure I read and probably posted it here somewhere so Monk could just ignore it as per usual. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #617 - Aug 24th, 2017 at 11:22pm
 
[quote author=Jovial_Abbott link=1494297994/607#607 date=1503499590]How are Greenland, West Antarctica and East Antarctica ice sheets going?

A scientist talks about ice sheets, global temperature increases and glaciers giving way. Video is about 10 minutes long, worth watching:



More details: https://robertscribbler.com/2017/08/18/the-present-threat-to-coastal-cities-from...

Thanks to DRAH for finding this and sending me the links. The bit about East Antarctica was a bit worrying.

It is now no longer some future catastrophe of flooding of coastal areas: a person now living will experience it: the flooding, loss of coastal agriculture and infrastructure, the refugees.


Very worth watching.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #618 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 10:47am
 
Grendel wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 2:44pm:
And....  wait for it...  this year it put on ICEMASS... ie; the ICEMASS increased.
I'm sure I read and probably posted it here somewhere so Monk could just ignore it as per usual. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

If you were to actually look at the graphs you will see you are wrong.

Have a look and if you can’t work out where you are wrong then I will explain it if you ask nicely. It does not even involve the huge losses of ice at sea level.
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #619 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 4:55pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 25th, 2017 at 10:47am:
Grendel wrote on Aug 24th, 2017 at 2:44pm:
And....  wait for it...  this year it put on ICEMASS... ie; the ICEMASS increased.
I'm sure I read and probably posted it here somewhere so Monk could just ignore it as per usual. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

If you were to actually look at the graphs you will see you are wrong.

Have a look and if you can’t work out where you are wrong then I will explain it if you ask nicely. It does not even involve the huge losses of ice at sea level.

Really, then those scientists in Greenland are wrong too then eh Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #620 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 5:07pm
 
I knew you wouldn’t see where you are wrong!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #621 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 7:43pm
 
Quote:
Once upon a time, crossing the Arctic was the ultimate challenge. From Franklin to Peary, the Arctic didn’t make it easy, and not every expedition was successful. Now, a Russian tanker has sailed through the usually icy waters without any kind of ice breaker for the first time ever. A success for shipping routes, surely, but a worrying example of climate change too.

The tanker crossed from Norway to South Korea in just 19 days, 30 percent faster than taking the usual route through the Suez Canal, traversing the Russian Arctic section of the route in just six and a half days.

. . . .

Usually, the only way to sail through the Arctic is with the aid of an icebreaker, but the tanker is specially designed to take advantage of the melting sea ice by having an inbuilt one that allowed it to get through ice around 1.2 meters (4 feet) thick without an escort.

. . . .

While the record-breaking travel time can be attributed to the tanker’s new technology, the record low sea ice also made it possible. We know that ice is melting in the Arctic twice as fast as anywhere else and there are obvious fears that increased traffic will damage the fragile ecosystem.

According to Spears, the ship does have green credentials. It can run on the natural gas it’s carrying, which reduces its sulphur oxide emissions by 90 percent and nitrous oxide emissions by 80 percent.

But the fact ships are now being designed in anticipation of less sea ice – you have to be pretty confident to spend $300 million on a new ship design – doesn’t bode well for the future of the Arctic.



http://www.iflscience.com/environment/cargo-ship-crosses-the-arctic-without-aid-...

There was also the cruise ship that sailed through the Arctic without an icebreaker.

And silly Booby the gullible fool thinks we are in an ice age  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #622 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 7:47pm
 
Just to ram home the record melt in the Arctic:

...

From: http://www.greenism.com/areas-of-the-barents-sea-reached-20of-above-average-in-2...

Barents Sea 20°F above average!

The poles are melting not freezing Booby, Dubyne is systematically lying to you!
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lee
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #623 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:36pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 7:43pm:
Now, a Russian tanker has sailed through the usually icy waters without any kind of ice breaker for the first time ever


"It was the Christophe de Margerie’s maiden voyage"

"South Korean shipbuilding company, Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (DSME), has a series of 15 icebreaking liquefied natural gas (LNG) carriers on order to serve Yamal LNG project located at Sabetta on the Yamal Peninsula in Northern Russia.

Worth $4.8bn, the icebreaking LNG carrier fleet is intended to transport LNG produced at the Yamal LNG project to the Asia-Pacific and European markets throughout all seasons of the year."

http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/christophe-de-margerie-class-icebreaking...

Wow, an icebreaking LNG carrier doesn't use an icebreaker? No wonder the story said " but the tanker is specially designed".

"The Christophe de Margerie-class LNG tankers can sail at a speed of 19.5kt in open seas and at 5kt in 1.5m-thick ice. They will have the ability to withstand temperatures of -50°C when operating in arctic environments."

Ice only 1.5m thick. That's some melt. Wink
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #624 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:44pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 7:47pm:
From: http://www.greenism.com/areas-of-the-barents-sea-reached-20of-above-average-in-2...

Barents Sea 20°F above average!



Scary. And with an emotive picture of a poor poley bear in an ice floe. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

From a real green website - near you. Grin Grin Grin

...

A fat Polar Bear Svalbard
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #625 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:54pm
 
Yeah, 1.5m. Not exactly multiyear ice is it?
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #626 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:02pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 8:54pm:
Yeah, 1.5m. Not exactly multiyear ice is it?


Wow you can discern multi-year ice from a depth measurement? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #627 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:29pm
 
Multiyear ice is ice accumulated over several years, meaning it is thick.

If you weren’t so afraid of the AGW you have acknowledge you could figure some of this stuff out yourself.
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #628 - Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:58pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 28th, 2017 at 9:29pm:
Multiyear ice is ice accumulated over several years, meaning it is thick.


How thick? There can be no ice melt at all?


"The ECICE algorithm is used to derive concentration of three ice types: MYI, FYI and YI. The algorithm starts with a linear mixing model that decomposes each radiometric observation into contributions from each surface type (in this case YI, FYI, MYI, and open water (OW)) weighted by the concentration of the surface type within the sensor’s field of view."

"Improving Multiyear Sea Ice Concentration Estimates
with Sea Ice Drift"

www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/8/5/397/pdf

Models all the way down. Wink
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #629 - Aug 29th, 2017 at 7:21am
 
Jacobshavn glacier:

Quote:
Jakobshavn glacier, responsible for feeding flotillas of icebergs into the Ilulissat icefjord — and possibly for unleashing the iceberg that sank the Titanic — is an enormous outlet for the larger Greenland ice sheet, which itself contains enough ice to raise seas by more than 20 feet.

Of that ice, more than 6 percent flows toward the ocean through Jakobshavn, which has raced inland since the 1990s, pouring ever more of its mass into the seas — a change that scientists believe has been caused by warming ocean temperatures. If all of the ice that flows through this region were to melt, it would raise global sea levels by nearly two feet. Just from 2000 to 2011, the ice loss through Jakobshavn alone caused the global sea level to rise by a millimeter.

The U.S. east coast in particular is already a “hot spot” for sea level rise, with rates in many areas exceeding the current global average of a little over 3 millimeters per year.

But until now, researchers have not been sure how far Jakobshavn’s ice extends below sea level — or how much deeper it gets further inland. That’s crucial because Jakobshavn is undergoing a dangerous “marine ice sheet instability,” in which oceanfront glaciers that grow deeper further inland are prone to unstoppable retreat down what scientists call a “retrograde” slope.

That’s where the new science comes in: Researchers who flew over Jakobshavn in a helicopter toting a gravimeter, used to detect the gravitational pull of the ice and deduce its mass, say they’ve found the glacier extends even deeper below sea level than previously realized, a configuration that sets the stage for further retreat.

“The way the bed looks, sort of makes it more prone to continuous retreat for decades to come,” said one of the study’s authors, Eric Rignot, a researcher with NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the University of California-Irvine.

Rignot conducted the research with colleagues from his own institution, New York University, the University of Kansas, and Sander Geophysics, which makes the gravimeter used in the study. The study was led by Lu An of the University of California-Irvine, and published in Geophysical Research Letters.


Prof Rignot is the scientist talking in that video you need to watch, Booby.

...

Full on retreat there!

Quote:
The study found that Jakobshavn is close to 0.7 miles thick where it currently touches the ocean (with only a little over a football field of ice rising above the water and the rest submerged). However, only about five to 10 miles inland toward the center of Greenland, the glacier grows considerably thicker and plunges deeper below sea level, eventually becoming over a mile thick, with nearly a mile of that mass extending below the sea surface. Moreover, the glacier is deep over a vast area.

Along most of that distance, the ice will get steadily deeper and thicker, favoring faster retreat. The glacier front is currently moving backward at about a third of a mile per year, and so will plunge into these deeper regions over the course of coming decades.

The greater depth of Jakobshavn matters for at least two reasons. As it retreats, Jakobshavn will present a thicker ice front to the warm ocean, leading to even greater ice flow and loss. Meanwhile, the depth itself favors increased ice loss because at the extreme pressures involved, the freezing point of ice itself actually changes, making it more susceptible to melting by relatively warm seawater in the deepest part of the fjord.


Warm seawater, same as around Antarctica.

Quote:
The deep passageway below Jakobshavn also underscores that, like another enormous Greenland glacier (the far northern Petermann glacier), this outlet connects with a vast and submerged system of canyons that deeply undercut Greenland and travel to its center beneath the ice sheet.

“It’s a direct conduit to the heart of Greenland,” Rignot said. (For a NASA video showing the two vast canyons beneath Greenland’s ice, one connected to Jakobshavn and one to Petermann, see here.)

A few simple calculations help underscore why a further retreat — and accompanying thickening — of Jakobshavn glacier could be such a problem.

Greenland is the world’s largest contributor to sea level rise — according to NASA, it is contributing 281 billion tons of ice to the ocean every year, nearly enough to cause 1 millimeter of sea level rise annually. (It takes 360 billion tons to do that.) That’s from all the various Greenland glaciers and from general melting of the ice sheet that then runs off into the ocean — but Jakobshavn is the single biggest ice loser.


Prof Rignot mentioned that the Petermann glacier is starting to show signs of destabilisation, leading to even more rapid sea rises! The opposite of what we expect in an ice age! Why, it is almost as if we are not in an ice age at all!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/04/11/scientists-...
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