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Ice watch (Read 21152 times)
Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #555 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:25pm
 
Quote:
Conclusions

In this article, we developed and presented a new dataset describing seasonal and annual Arctic sea ice extents for the period 1901–2015. Our dataset consists of separate seasonal indices for three Arctic regions (North American, Nordic and Siberian) as well as composite indices for the entire Arctic Ocean and seas, although excluding those non-Arctic Northern Hemisphere seas with seasonal sea ice (e.g. Sea of Okhotsk, Bering Sea, Gulf of St Lawrence).

According to this new dataset, the recent period of Arctic sea ice retreat since the 1970s followed a period of sea ice growth after the mid 1940s, which in turn followed a period of sea ice retreat after the 1910s. Our reconstructions agree with previous studies that have noted a general decrease in Arctic sea ice extent (for all four seasons) since the start of the satellite era (1979). However, the timing of the start of the satellite era is unfortunate in that it coincided with the end of several decades during which Arctic sea ice extent was generally increasing.

This late-1970s reversal in sea ice trends was not captured by the hindcasts of the recent CMIP5 climate models used for the latest IPCC reports, which suggests that current climate models are still quite poor at modelling past sea ice trends. Nor is it described in previous Arctic sea ice reconstructions such as the Walsh dataset or the widely used HadISST sea ice dataset, although some recent studies have noted similar reversals, e.g. Pirón and Pasalodos (2016 Pirón, M.Á.C. and Pasalodos, J.A.C., 2016. Nueva serie de extension del hielo marino ártico en septiembre entre 1935 y 2014. Revista de Climatología, 16, 1–19. (in Spanish). Available from:
http://webs.ono.com/reclim/
[Accessed 6 February 2016].
[Google Scholar]
) and Alekseev et al. (2016 Alekseev, G., Glok, N., and Smirnov, A., 2016. On assessment of the relationship between changes of sea ice extent and climate in the Arctic. International Journal of Climatology, 36, 3407–3412. doi:10.1002/joc.4550
[Crossref], [Web of Science ®], [Google Scholar]
).

As we saw from Figure 1, and Tables 1 and 2, Arctic sea ice is a key component of the Arctic hydrological cycle. So, this new dataset should be of use for improving our understanding of Arctic hydrology.


Seems the sea ice extent in the Arctic more or less  corresponds to the temperature trend.

Since the 1970s—rapid rise in temperatures and decline in sea ice extent and volume.

...

...

...
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lee
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #556 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:30pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:50pm:
So you don’t know what it means. That is what I thought.


Yes. I do. They go into the historical data of DMI, which assumed during the Cold War that the sea ice extent was larger than it really was. Russia however did monitor their section of the Arctic and show no sea ice where DMI had assumed their was.

"Figure 5. (a) Example of one of the Danish Meteorological Institute sea ice charts (August 1952) used by Walsh and Chapman. The estimates coloured in red are derived from actual observations. The compilers did not have any observations for the white regions, but supposed there might have been ice there. Image courtesy of the Danish Meteorological Institute and the National Snow and Ice Data Center, University of Colorado, Boulder (Danish Meteorological Institute (DMI), and NSIDC 2012 Danish Meteorological Institute (DMI), and NSIDC, 2012. Arctic sea ice charts from the Danish Meteorological Institute, 1893-1956. Compiled by V. Underhill and F. Fetterer. Boulder, CO: National Snow and Ice Data Center. doi:10.7265/N56D5QXC[Google Scholar]). (b) Example of observations from the Russian-based AARI dataset: average sea ice extent for the same month (August 1952)."

...

But feel free to read the entire paer. It is available unpaywalled for a short period.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02626667.2017.1324974?scroll=top&nee...
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lee
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #557 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:34pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:25pm:
Our reconstructions agree with previous studies that have noted a general decrease in Arctic sea ice extent (for all four seasons) since the start of the satellite era (1979). However, the timing of the start of the satellite era is unfortunate in that it coincided with the end of several decades during which Arctic sea ice extent was generally increasing.

This late-1970s reversal in sea ice trends was not captured by the hindcasts of the recent CMIP5 climate models used for the latest IPCC reports, which suggests that current climate models are still quite poor at modelling past sea ice trends. Nor is it described in previous Arctic sea ice reconstructions such as the Walsh dataset or the widely used HadISST sea ice dataset, although some recent studies have noted similar reversals, e.g. Pirón and Pasalodos (2016 Pirón, M.Á.C. and Pasalodos, J.A.C., 2016


Wink
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #558 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:51pm
 
It does not reveal any startling knowledge, the ice follows the global temperature pretty well, including the ever–shrinking volume of Arctic ice since the late 70s.

As temps go ever higher, Arctic ice will continue to shrink. This will affect NH weather patterns quite a bit.
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lee
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #559 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:04pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:51pm:
It does not reveal any startling knowledge, the ice follows the global temperature pretty well, including the ever–shrinking volume of Arctic ice since the late 70s.



It reveals the startling knowledge that the vaunted IPCC were entirely wrong about the Arctic. How inconvenient.
It shows the early 20th century warming in the Arctic both about 1910 and 1940. Something that has been poo-pooed b you many times.

So if it is not startling to you, you have been lying all this time. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:51pm:
As temps go ever higher, Arctic ice will continue to shrink.


What you mean is IF the temps go higher. Wink
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #560 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:25pm
 
Have we stopped burning fossil fuels? No? Then AS temperatures rise more Arctic ice will melt.
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #561 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:53pm
 
That's what will happen.

BRING ON THE ICE AGE...PLEASE!! Sad
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lee
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #562 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:55pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:25pm:
Have we stopped burning fossil fuels? No? Then AS temperatures rise more Arctic ice will melt.


The old correlation is causation theory again. What caused the previous warming periods, when you maintain CO2 was low? What caused the 1960's-70's global cooling scare when CO2 was on the rise?
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #563 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:55pm
 
Now you know why I am moving to Tasmania. Adelaide is just getting stupid hot!
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #564 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 1:30am
 
lee wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:55pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:25pm:
Have we stopped burning fossil fuels? No? Then AS temperatures rise more Arctic ice will melt.


The old correlation is causation theory again. What caused the previous warming periods, when you maintain CO2 was low? What caused the 1960's-70's global cooling scare when CO2 was on the rise?

Not correlation=causation because we know the mechanism. Harries, Feldman etc.

What caused the cooling scare? Not much of a scare, no real scientific backing either—refer to Arrhenius including his 1906 paper.

I have tried to explain previous warming. I think that when the sun enters an active state we will really know previous warming periods. But in the meantime:

1. Low levels of vulcanism, less aerosols in the upper atmosphere reflecting sunlight back into space.

2. Active solar state, more warming
mber
3. Minor orbital perturbations meaning the northern hemisphere gets more sun

4. Different ocean currents.

Now that we have boosted CO2 beyond anything in the last xxx years any other source of warming turns up (just how long before the sun enters an active state anyway??) we are gonna see heat like the planet hasn’t seen in a LOOOONNNNNNGGGGGG time.
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #565 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 12:22pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:55pm:
Now you know why I am moving to Tasmania. Adelaide is just getting stupid hot!



Yeah. Adelaide West opened- 1839. Still open. Station Number: 23000

Highest January - 46.1ºC 1939
Highest February - 43.4ºC 1912
Highest March - 41.8ºC 1942
Highest November - 42.7ºC 1962
Highest December - 44.2ºC 1904

http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weatherData/av?p_nccObsCode=122&p_display_typ...

I guess you are getting soft in your dotage. Grin Grin Grin Grin
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lee
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #566 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 12:28pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 1:30am:
What caused the cooling scare? Not much of a scare, no real scientific backing either—refer to Arrhenius including his 1906 paper.



I know you like to giggle about notrickszone; but you still haven't rebutted any of the 285 papers on global cooling.

The link is -

http://notrickszone.com/285-papers-70s-cooling-1/#sthash.pMydKyfb.dpbs

Only 285 papers a mere bagatelle.

I will start you off -

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1502-3885.1972.tb00145.x/abstract

https://www.osti.gov/scitech/biblio/7273062/#page=54

Enjoy.

BTW - Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 19th, 2017 at 1:30am:
I think that


What YOU think has absolutely noting to do with climate. Wink
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #567 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 12:58pm
 
LOL Still resorts to Correlation = Causation and still denies he does it.... Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #568 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 9:50pm
 
YAWN
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #569 - Aug 19th, 2017 at 10:35pm
 
Anyway, let us look at the state of Arctic ice:

...

...

The Arctic sea ice extent is nearly as bad as that in the year 2012:
...

And Greenland:
...

...

Oh yeah, you can see we are in an Ice Age  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


Bringing this to the front again.
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