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Ice watch (Read 21260 times)
Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #165 - May 31st, 2017 at 1:29pm
 
I guess those conditions do not apply today, so the state of the Arctic is due to something else, like AGW.
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TheFunPolice
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #166 - May 31st, 2017 at 1:58pm
 
lee wrote on May 31st, 2017 at 1:19pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on May 31st, 2017 at 1:00pm:
So you agree you were lying about the Arctic in the early 20th century.

Now—do those conditions apply today?


Please use direct quote. You just "misinterpret" the written word so often.

Why don't you please give a shite about your own kids  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #167 - May 31st, 2017 at 2:20pm
 
Well, I guess it is AGW melting the Arctic today. And Greenland.
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lee
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #168 - May 31st, 2017 at 3:13pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 31st, 2017 at 1:29pm:
I guess those conditions do not apply today, so the state of the Arctic is due to something else, like AGW.


You mean like natural variability?
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #169 - May 31st, 2017 at 3:14pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 31st, 2017 at 2:20pm:
Well, I guess it is AGW melting the Arctic today. And Greenland.


Why? Cos it can't be anything else? Grin Grin Grin
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #170 - May 31st, 2017 at 3:45pm
 
No, I think AGW is adequate.
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #171 - May 31st, 2017 at 6:14pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on May 31st, 2017 at 3:45pm:
No, I think AGW is adequate.


Only adequate?
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #172 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 5:23am
 
Lying Lees’ article agrees with me:

Quote:
The researchers explain that these new findings can help constrain model climate projections over the Arctic region.

"It is likely that temperatures in the Arctic will continue to rise due to anthropogenic global warming," concludes Tokinaga. "Our study does not deny this. We are rather suggesting that Arctic warming could accelerate or decelerate due to internal variability of the Pacific and the Atlantic."

"It is a challenge to accurately predict when the next big swing of multidecadal variability will occur. Careful monitoring is essential, given the enormous impact on the Arctic climate."


So it is AGW not decadal oscillations melting the Arctic today. Nice of Lees to post a paper to show that. Natural variation just does not explain the warming.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #173 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 5:38am
 
Greenland melt continues at low levels.

Greenland weather can be found here: http://www.accuweather.com/en/gl/nuuk/186497/may-weather/186497
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #174 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 12:56pm
 
lee wrote on May 31st, 2017 at 12:53pm:
New paper on Arctic warming from PNAS -

"But then how to explain a similar rapid warming that occurred during the early 20th century, when the effects of greenhouse gases were considerably weaker than today? And what can we prove about the period, given the scarcity of usable data and observations prior to the 1950s?

Now scientists from Kyoto University and UC San Diego have discovered that this phenomenon occurred when the warming phase -- 'interdecadal variability mode' -- of both the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans coincided. The team's findings appeared recently in the journal PNAS.

"We found that early 20th century sea surface temperatures in the tropical Pacific and North Atlantic had warmed much more than previously thought," explains lead author Hiroki Tokinaga of Kyoto.

"Using observations and model simulations, we've demonstrated that rising Pacific-Atlantic temperatures were the major driver of rapid Arctic warming in the early 20th century."

Previous explanations for early Arctic warming have including decreased volcanic aerosols and increased solar radiation, but none of these have been able to simulate observed conditions from the period.

Tokinaga's team found that when the interdecadal rise in sea surface temperatures was included in simulation calculations, the results properly reflected early Arctic conditions."

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-05/ku-poa052917.php

Only models but it is the best they can do trying to interpret the past. Wink

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Re: Ice watch
Reply #175 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 1:09pm
 
It is clear Lees does not understand models and their use in climate research.

Basically the models predicting temperature rises, the most denigrated models, are pretty good. In the “Loss of credibility” thread we see models and actual temperature data sets all cluster around the mean/mode.

Given the huge areas involved you can only make sense of events (temperature changes, ice melts etc) by simplifying, by modelling.

If you read how a model of the Greenland ice sheet is built up you see this. It is not just snowfall, it is compaction of the snow, it is rainfall filling in spaces in the “firn” and many other factors.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #176 - Jun 2nd, 2017 at 6:14am
 
Greenland May 31st

Melt barely in interquartile range mainly on NW & NE coasts.
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #177 - Jun 2nd, 2017 at 4:22pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 5:23am:
"Our study does not deny this.


Right, their study does not deny it? They don't say if it admits it. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 5:23am:
We are rather suggesting that Arctic warming could accelerate or decelerate due to internal variability of the Pacific and the Atlantic."



They are suggesting? Could accelerate or decelerate? Yep. They sound positive. Wink

Jovial Monk wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 5:23am:
So it is AGW not decadal oscillations melting the Arctic today.


Nope. They don't say that. Wink
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #178 - Jun 2nd, 2017 at 4:27pm
 
TheFunPolice wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 12:56pm:
Your whole world is based on models



Nope. I guess you missed this -

TheFunPolice wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 12:56pm:
"Using observations and model simulations,


Wink
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Re: Ice watch
Reply #179 - Jun 3rd, 2017 at 12:34pm
 
lee wrote on Jun 2nd, 2017 at 4:27pm:
TheFunPolice wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 12:56pm:
Your whole world is based on models



Nope. I guess you missed this -

TheFunPolice wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 12:56pm:
"Using observations and model simulations,


Wink

How is that not saying that your whole world is based on models?
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