Australian Politics Forum - 11 things men took credit for

Setanta

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Re: 11 things men took credit for
Reply #15 - Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:45pm

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:42pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:41pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:39pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:34pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:29pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:28pm:

Should we name a million things men did?

Bet they got the credit for it though, eh?

Or other men. Not everyone gets the credit for their work, just because some women didn't get credit is not a reason for a whine.

There are many renowned women who got credit for what they did. Ada Lovelace and Marie Curie come to mind.

Who's whining? I'm celebrating amazing women who history has overlooked.

For most of history, women were not allowed to publish in scientific journals, certainly didn't receive funding for their research and were, quite frankly, lucky to have been educated at all.

I think these women deserve to be spoken about without accusations that i am "whining" by doing so.

What about the female mathematicians who put man on the moon or the code breakers in WW2?

Many people are overlooked in life and history. Men and women.

Who's denying it?

Yet women were systematically overlooked by virtue of being women.

If it was systematic why do we know of famously achieving women?

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mothra

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Re: 11 things men took credit for
Reply #16 - Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:46pm

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:45pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:42pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:41pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:39pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:34pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:29pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:28pm:

Should we name a million things men did?

Bet they got the credit for it though, eh?

Or other men. Not everyone gets the credit for their work, just because some women didn't get credit is not a reason for a whine.

There are many renowned women who got credit for what they did. Ada Lovelace and Marie Curie come to mind.

Who's whining? I'm celebrating amazing women who history has overlooked.

For most of history, women were not allowed to publish in scientific journals, certainly didn't receive funding for their research and were, quite frankly, lucky to have been educated at all.

I think these women deserve to be spoken about without accusations that i am "whining" by doing so.

What about the female mathematicians who put man on the moon or the code breakers in WW2?

Many people are overlooked in life and history. Men and women.

Who's denying it?

Yet women were systematically overlooked by virtue of being women.

If it was systematic why do we know of famously achieving women?

Researchers. Obviously.

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Setanta Gold Member Offline \/ Peace man! Posts: 17570 Northern NSW Gender:	Re: 11 things men took credit for Reply #17 - Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:48pm mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:46pm: Researchers. Obviously. How so? You think we only know of them because someone researched them and uncovered them?
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mothra

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Re: 11 things men took credit for
Reply #18 - Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:56pm

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:48pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:46pm:

Researchers. Obviously.

How so? You think we only know of them because someone researched them an uncovered them?

Yes. That is precisely what i am saying.

Take, for example your reaction to my talking about them I was accused of "whining".

Yet these are women who fought against institutionalised sexism (are you denying there was institutionalised sexism?) to do great things ... that men got the credit for. Their names were intentionally left of academic papers. Their husbands or colleagues were credited with their work.

Tell me Setanta, did you read their stories? Or are you simply reacting to the 'principle'?

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mothra Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 36747 Gender:	Re: 11 things men took credit for Reply #19 - Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:59pm http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130519-women-scientists-overlook...
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Setanta

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Re: 11 things men took credit for
Reply #20 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:01am

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:56pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:48pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:46pm:

Researchers. Obviously.

How so? You think we only know of them because someone researched them an uncovered them?

Yes. That is precisely what i am saying.

Take, for example your reaction to my talking about them I was accused of "whining".

Yet these are women who fought against institutionalised sexism (are you denying there was institutionalised sexism?) to do great things ... that men got the credit for. Their names were intentionally left of academic papers. Their husbands or colleagues were credited with their work.

Tell me Setanta, did you read their stories? Or are you simply reacting to the 'principle'?

I'm reacting to the principle. Men and women get their credit ripped off. You can name 11 women, if I did a bit of a search I'm sure I could find more men with their creds given to someone else. Why are you not sticking up for men that have had their creds for accomplishments transferred? How about 22 people that have had their accomplishments credited to others?

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mothra

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Re: 11 things men took credit for
Reply #21 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:17am

Setanta wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:01am:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:56pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:48pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:46pm:

Researchers. Obviously.

How so? You think we only know of them because someone researched them an uncovered them?

Yes. That is precisely what i am saying.

Take, for example your reaction to my talking about them I was accused of "whining".

Yet these are women who fought against institutionalised sexism (are you denying there was institutionalised sexism?) to do great things ... that men got the credit for. Their names were intentionally left of academic papers. Their husbands or colleagues were credited with their work.

Tell me Setanta, did you read their stories? Or are you simply reacting to the 'principle'?

I'm reacting to the principle. Men and women get their credit ripped off. You can name 11 women, if I did a bit of a search I'm sure I could find more men with their creds given to someone else. Why are you not sticking up for men that have had their creds for accomplishments transferred? How about 22 people that have had their accomplishments credited to others?

By simply reacting to the principle (thanks for admitting it), you have missed the fact that some of these women were intentionally left off of academic papers because they were women.

If a woman managed to get an education and a job (no mean feat) in years past, she would find herself prohibited from publishing in academic journals, receiving any funding and bereft of any wider community recognition of what she achieved.

By virtue of her being a woman.

You yourself, a page back, cited the moon landing as the domain of men. Yet you overlook Margaret Hamilton, the lead software engineer for Project Apollo; Katherine Johnson, an aerospace technologist at NASA; Dottie Lee, an aerothermodynamics subsystems manager; Ivy Hooks, a member of the original Space Shuttle design team and also Johnson Space Center director and director of engineering ... to name a few.

Yet you assumed it was all men. Why was that Setanta?

And those women all achieved greatness despite institutionalised sexism, which, i'm sure you would agree, was rife throughout history.

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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: 11 things men took credit for
Reply #22 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:23am

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:39pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:34pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:29pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:28pm:

Should we name a million things men did?

Bet they got the credit for it though, eh?

Or other men. Not everyone gets the credit for their work, just because some women didn't get credit is not a reason for a whine.

There are many renowned women who got credit for what they did. Ada Lovelace and Marie Curie come to mind.

Who's whining? I'm celebrating amazing women who history has overlooked.

For most of history, women were not allowed to publish in scientific journals, certainly didn't receive funding for their research and were, quite frankly, lucky to have been educated at all.

I think these women deserve to be spoken about without accusations that i am "whining" by doing so.

Where are the other ten things? A short story? I can do one of those in a day....... and have done - one to acclaim from an audience who generally just do not respond to my 'works'... well.. I also got a review in a play once from a gay magazine (The Oxford Weekender) that said I gave a 'sensitive' performance (as Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce Sioux in the play 'Indians' - later translated to Hollywood as 'Buffalo Bill and The Indians'), but who am I to judge?....

I'm just a weary old actor, and a lot of other things as well, and not gay... but hell - a good review is a good review....

Footnote:- My GF in 1973 was our University's first Woman Ph.D in Chemistry - she was gorgeous and smart, red-haired and fabulous (just my type) - she went on to a stellar career as a Prof in England - I promised to follow, but was waylaid by my career as an Army officer...... though at times our paths nearly crossed again due to secondments.... that's called life....... but I must re-connect with her before I go.....

A promise is a promise...... hmmm - might be a book there..... or a screenplay....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Setanta

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Re: 11 things men took credit for
Reply #23 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:24am

mothra wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:17am:

Setanta wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:01am:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:56pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:48pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:46pm:

Researchers. Obviously.

How so? You think we only know of them because someone researched them an uncovered them?

Yes. That is precisely what i am saying.

Take, for example your reaction to my talking about them I was accused of "whining".

Yet these are women who fought against institutionalised sexism (are you denying there was institutionalised sexism?) to do great things ... that men got the credit for. Their names were intentionally left of academic papers. Their husbands or colleagues were credited with their work.

Tell me Setanta, did you read their stories? Or are you simply reacting to the 'principle'?

I'm reacting to the principle. Men and women get their credit ripped off. You can name 11 women, if I did a bit of a search I'm sure I could find more men with their creds given to someone else. Why are you not sticking up for men that have had their creds for accomplishments transferred? How about 22 people that have had their accomplishments credited to others?

By simply reacting to the principle (thanks for admitting it), you have missed the fact that some of these women were intentionally left off of academic papers because they were women.

If a woman managed to get an education and a job (no mean feat) in years past, she would find herself prohibited from publishing in academic journals, receiving any funding and bereft of any wider community recognition of what she achieved.

By virtue of her being a woman.

You yourself, a page back, cited the moon landing as the domain of men. Yet you overlook Margaret Hamilton, the lead software engineer for Project Apollo; Katherine Johnson, an aerospace technologist at NASA; Dottie Lee, an aerothermodynamics subsystems manager; Ivy Hooks, a member of the original Space Shuttle design team and also Johnson Space Center director and director of engineering ... to name a few.

Yet you assumed it was all men. Why was that Setanta?

And those women all achieved greatness despite institutionalised sexism, which, i'm sure you would agree, was rife throughout history.

I was not citing the moon landing as the domain of men, there was an army of women mathematicians behind it, that was the point I was making, just as the code breaking in ww2. You misread me.

You could look at it as every person that accomplished something had a mother. Fine things they are and no progress would be made without them.

I'm kinda a bit peeved that you want to make it a woman/man thing when you aspire to something different usually.

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mothra

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Re: 11 things men took credit for
Reply #24 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:26am

Setanta wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:24am:

mothra wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:17am:

Setanta wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:01am:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:56pm:

Setanta wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:48pm:

mothra wrote on Mar 25^th, 2017 at 11:46pm:

Researchers. Obviously.

How so? You think we only know of them because someone researched them an uncovered them?

Yes. That is precisely what i am saying.

Take, for example your reaction to my talking about them I was accused of "whining".

Yet these are women who fought against institutionalised sexism (are you denying there was institutionalised sexism?) to do great things ... that men got the credit for. Their names were intentionally left of academic papers. Their husbands or colleagues were credited with their work.

Tell me Setanta, did you read their stories? Or are you simply reacting to the 'principle'?

I'm reacting to the principle. Men and women get their credit ripped off. You can name 11 women, if I did a bit of a search I'm sure I could find more men with their creds given to someone else. Why are you not sticking up for men that have had their creds for accomplishments transferred? How about 22 people that have had their accomplishments credited to others?

By simply reacting to the principle (thanks for admitting it), you have missed the fact that some of these women were intentionally left off of academic papers because they were women.

If a woman managed to get an education and a job (no mean feat) in years past, she would find herself prohibited from publishing in academic journals, receiving any funding and bereft of any wider community recognition of what she achieved.

By virtue of her being a woman.

You yourself, a page back, cited the moon landing as the domain of men. Yet you overlook Margaret Hamilton, the lead software engineer for Project Apollo; Katherine Johnson, an aerospace technologist at NASA; Dottie Lee, an aerothermodynamics subsystems manager; Ivy Hooks, a member of the original Space Shuttle design team and also Johnson Space Center director and director of engineering ... to name a few.

Yet you assumed it was all men. Why was that Setanta?

And those women all achieved greatness despite institutionalised sexism, which, i'm sure you would agree, was rife throughout history.

I was not citing the moon landing as the domain of men, there was an army of women mathematicians behind it, that was the point I was making, just as the code breaking in ww2. You misread me.

You could look at it as every person that accomplished something had a mother. Fine things they are and no progress would be made without them.

Apologies for misreading you.

Now, about you accusing me of "whining" .....

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Setanta Gold Member Offline \/ Peace man! Posts: 17570 Northern NSW Gender:	Re: 11 things men took credit for Reply #25 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:27am mothra wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:26am: Apologies for misreading you. Now, about you accusing me of "whining" ..... See late edit above.
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Grappler Racist Filth Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 90786 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: 11 things men took credit for Reply #26 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:31am Hush - but you can accuse me all you like - you'll still be wrong.....
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mothra

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Re: 11 things men took credit for
Reply #27 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:35am

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

The French philosopher Voltaire is widely credited for what may be the most celebrated quotation about freedom of speech. Bartlett's lists it under his name, calling it a paraphrase from his letter to a M. le Riche, February 6, 1770—but that attribution was based on a misreading. The quote does not appear in Voltaire's letter to François-Louis-Henri Leriche of that date, nor anywhere else in Voltaire's works. The real writer was Evelyn Beatrice Hall (1868–1919), English author of The Friends of Voltaire, a book she published in 1906 under the pseudonym S. G. Tallentyre. The illustrious line is Hall's own characterization of Voltaire's attitude. Discussing a book by one of his friends, she explains that even though he had thought the work rather light, he rose to its defense when it was censored.

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Setanta

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Re: 11 things men took credit for
Reply #28 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:40am

mothra wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:35am:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

The French philosopher Voltaire is widely credited for what may be the most celebrated quotation about freedom of speech. Bartlett's lists it under his name, calling it a paraphrase from his letter to a M. le Riche, February 6, 1770—but that attribution was based on a misreading. The quote does not appear in Voltaire's letter to François-Louis-Henri Leriche of that date, nor anywhere else in Voltaire's works. The real writer was Evelyn Beatrice Hall (1868–1919), English author of The Friends of Voltaire, a book she published in 1906 under the pseudonym S. G. Tallentyre. The illustrious line is Hall's own characterization of Voltaire's attitude. Discussing a book by one of his friends, she explains that even though he had thought the work rather light, he rose to its defense when it was censored.

I'm just disapproving of the way you are saying what you say. I'll still defend you right to say it.

You are making it a sex based thing, you would be appalled if others did so in a sex or race based way. You seem to want a quid each way.

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mothra

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Re: 11 things men took credit for
Reply #29 - Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:43am

Setanta wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:40am:

mothra wrote on Mar 26^th, 2017 at 12:35am:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

The French philosopher Voltaire is widely credited for what may be the most celebrated quotation about freedom of speech. Bartlett's lists it under his name, calling it a paraphrase from his letter to a M. le Riche, February 6, 1770—but that attribution was based on a misreading. The quote does not appear in Voltaire's letter to François-Louis-Henri Leriche of that date, nor anywhere else in Voltaire's works. The real writer was Evelyn Beatrice Hall (1868–1919), English author of The Friends of Voltaire, a book she published in 1906 under the pseudonym S. G. Tallentyre. The illustrious line is Hall's own characterization of Voltaire's attitude. Discussing a book by one of his friends, she explains that even though he had thought the work rather light, he rose to its defense when it was censored.

I'm just disapproving of the way you are saying what you say. I'll still defend you right to say it.

You are making it a sex based thing, you would be appalled if others did so in a sex or race based way. You seem to want a quid each way.

I'll ask you for a third time, do you deny that institutionalised sexism has been implemented throughout our history?

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