Australian Politics Forum - Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam

Auggie

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #30 - Mar 12^th, 2017 at 9:37pm

Grendel wrote on Mar 12^th, 2017 at 9:33pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 12^th, 2017 at 5:42pm:

Grendel wrote on Mar 12^th, 2017 at 5:38pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 12^th, 2017 at 5:34pm:

Grendel wrote on Mar 12^th, 2017 at 5:29pm:

Auggie wrote on Mar 12^th, 2017 at 4:43pm:

Grendel wrote on Mar 12^th, 2017 at 4:32pm:

Nope.
1/ Not all Christians believe the same things about the nature of God.
2/ You have no proof God exists let alone that the Islamic God is the Christian God... and it is disputed, just as the authenticity of the Koran as the word of God.
4/ Muslims believe all Christians are idolators and worship false idols etc... they do not believe in the Trinity, yet Catholics "do" that Not all Christians. To confuse Catholics with all Christians is wrong.
5/ Protestants believe that you are saved by faith, grace and the sacrifice of Christ, Catholics believe you are save by meritorious deeds and also that Christ did not pay for our sins and that time in purgatory must occur for forgiveness.

Etc, etc, etc....

There are a great many differences...

Correct, there are a variety of Christian beliefs.

The Islamic God is reputed to the same God because the Quran makes reference to the previous traditions. I'm not saying that any of this true, and I'm not offering as evidence; I'm simply saying that by reading the Quran (the Meccan verses), one can logical deduce that the Quran was referring to the same God as Abrahamic and Christian God.

The issue is that Christian conservatives don't want to admit that it's same God because then they would see it as though the Christian God were inspiring the acts of the ISIS and other extremist organizations. This is the probably with human beings and the organization thereof as a political entity. Perhaps this is the issue with religion in general.

As I stated above, the pre-Islamic Christian and Jewish Arabs also referred to God as Allah; therefore the notion that the Muslims were worshiping the Moon God would then that the Christians and the Jews were worshiping the Moon God, which was clearly not the case.

Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutheranism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic Christianity all believe in the Trinity. These denominations make up almost all of the Christian world. Sure, you get some low-church branches that don't believe in the Trinity, but they're a minority; and Mormonism doesn't count.

Well that's not true many Christian Conservatives recognise that the 3 are Abrahamic religions and that they all claim to worship the 1 true God. Muslim conservatives don't.

Then, they're wrong.

Do you feel a fatwah coming on?

I'm an apostate, so why should anyone care? Will you issue it?

Correction: not an apostate, but a disbeliever, since I'm not Muslim.

Lucky you live in Australia?
You don't have to be Muslim to have a fatwah against you...

Yes, lucky I live in Australia. I love this country.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam Reply #31 - Mar 12^th, 2017 at 9:49pm Still won't stop a fatwah....
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Auggie Gold Member Offline The Bull Moose Posts: 8571	Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam Reply #32 - Mar 12^th, 2017 at 9:59pm Grendel wrote on Mar 12^th, 2017 at 9:49pm: Still won't stop a fatwah.... Are you a radical Muslim cleric posing as a 'Stralian?
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issuevoter

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #33 - Mar 12^th, 2017 at 10:58pm

Not exactly sure why this "one verses the others" thread is posted under Islam, but that is the way the other two are going anyway, so it could be logical.

A problem central to the discussion is the confusion of religion with ethnicity and culture. A person of totally secular views whose family was traditionally Jewish is not going to turn around and say they are not a Jew. Most people do not burn their bridges, even when they know their tribe is populated by idiots who will believe anything to perceive safety in numbers. When people don't believe something, they need to stand up and say it. What we are seeing today, is a situation where people running away from what they do not believe, going to countries where they could say it, but do not. These people are guilty of silence.

Both Christianity and Judaism have curbed their blood lust due to the influence of Western liberal thought, which stems from the Renaissance and the Enlightenment. Islam has been far more isolated, but due to the prevalence of western education among the privileged minority from typically Islamic countries, and now, electronic communication, Islam is concerned that their faith will be diminished, and so has turned in on itself. It is a hope that they can hold on to their dark-age perspective, and even export it. The weird thing is that its working. Look at how once secular states and institutions now actually give validity to Islam while ridiculing the other two.

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Raven Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2981 Around	Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam Reply #34 - Mar 13^th, 2017 at 12:24am All three follow the ABCs Assure, Believe, Convert. They assure their followers that paradise awaits them, they believe in their god and they try to convert others to their beliefs. They do all have one thing in common though, they are all doomsday cults.
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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam Reply #35 - Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:41am Ah no the Crusades and Inquisition and sending out Missionaries to convert the world to Christianity stopped ages ago... only a fool would state otherwise in the SECULAR WEST today these sentiments hardly exist and similarly as practices. Anyone become a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness lately?
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moses

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #36 - Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:44am

AugCaesarustus wrote Reply #28 - Yesterday at 6:23pm
Quote:

They weren't Hebrews. They were Arab Jews. You know, like you have Moroccan Jews, or Iranian Jews, or Ashkenazi Jews. They weren't Hebrew.

Are you for real?

You're saying that Jews departed from the Tanakh and called their God by an Arabic name used to denote a pagan moon god.

Quote:

You haven't answered the point about how Yahweh was a Canaanite God. The pre-Islamic Arab Christians and Jews used Allah to call their God. This is a well-known fact. You're just burying your head in the sand because you can't swallow the truth.

That's just a smokescreen on your part the whole issue is: Post islam allah is the exact same pre islam pagan moon god allah.

islam has the same pagan rituals as the pre-islamic pagan moon god observances.

The push to claim allah as being no different to the Judaeo-Christian God, is a fallacious attempt to promote acceptance of islam, as being similar to other religions.

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Auggie

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #37 - Mar 13^th, 2017 at 2:19pm

moses wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:44am:

Are you for real?

You're saying that Jews departed from the Tanakh and called their God by an Arabic name used to denote a pagan moon god.

You're basing on your assumption on the idea that Allah is based on the Moon God. I've read about this hypothesis and it's not accepted by the majority of scholars, even Western scholars.

The Jews have departed from the Tanakh. If a person is Jewish Australian, what if they cannot speak Hebrew, or if they choose to use English in services, then they would use the word God. Allah is the simply the Arabic name for God. Don't forget Arab Christians used the name Allah too, and they're not Hebrews.

moses wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:44am:

That's just a smokescreen on your part the whole issue is: Post islam allah is the exact same pre islam pagan moon god allah.

islam has the same pagan rituals as the pre-islamic pagan moon god observances.

The push to claim allah as being no different to the Judaeo-Christian God, is a fallacious attempt to promote acceptance of islam, as being similar to other religions

No religion is unique. All religions take something that already exists. As I said, the God of Israel derived from Yahweh, the Canaanite God. The idea of duality: good and evil, God and Satan comes from Zoroastrianism, which precedes all of the Abrahamic religions.

It's not a smoke screen. If you concede that Muslims worship the Moon God Allah, then you also have to recognize that the Hebrews worship the Canaanite War God Yahweh. You can't say one and not the other, otherwise you're clearly biased.

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moses

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #38 - Mar 13^th, 2017 at 5:42pm

AugCaesarustus wrote:

Quote:

You're basing on your assumption on the idea that Allah is based on the Moon God. I've read about this hypothesis and it's not accepted by the majority of scholars, even Western scholars.

You mean the majority of scholars in the pro islam camp who all want to push allah as the god of the Jews and Christians fallacy.

while the majority of scholars who want to be honest subscribe to historical and archeological evidence which proves allah is a moon god.

Some of todays' muslim sacred rites which are a carryover from the pagan moon god allah:

muslims pray bowing towards the K'abah in Mecca five times a day. (moon god observance)

muslims visit Mecca every year and walk around the K'abah and kiss a black rock (moon god observance)

muslims throw rocks at imaginary spirits in the K'abah (moon god observance)

The muslim "holy" month of ramadan starts at the sighting of a new crescent moon. (moon god observance)

Perched atop mosques (and on most muslims flags) across the world is the crescent moon, the symbol of allah whom muhammad chose as the god of islam. (moon god observance)

al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat the daughters of allah are taught in the qur'an, 53.19 53.20 (another moon god observance)

So there is absolutely no doubt that allah of islam is the pagan moon god of the preislam arabs.

Quote:

The Jews have departed from the Tanakh. If a person is Jewish Australian, what if they cannot speak Hebrew, or if they choose to use English in services, then they would use the word God. Allah is the simply the Arabic name for God. Don't forget Arab Christians used the name Allah too, and they're not Hebrews.

The Jews no mater where they lived in pre islamic times would never change the names given to their God in the Tanakh, to a name given to an Arabian pagan moon god, that is nonsensical. The same would be said for the pre-islam Christians they would not have used the name of a local moon god.

They have all been forced (under threat of death) to refer to allah in the post islamic crusades era.

The qur'an proves my point as muhammad accused the Jews and Christians of corrupting their scriptures with the absence of allah in their Holy Books.

Quote:

No religion is unique. All religions take something that already exists. As I said, the God of Israel derived from Yahweh, the Canaanite God. The idea of duality: good and evil, God and Satan comes from Zoroastrianism, which precedes all of the Abrahamic religions.

It's not a smoke screen. If you concede that Muslims worship the Moon God Allah, then you also have to recognize that the Hebrews worship the Canaanite War God Yahweh. You can't say one and not the other, otherwise you're clearly biased.

It is a smoke screen.

You tried to promote the line that allah is the god of the Jews and Christians. That is not true.

As for where the Hebrews got their original ideas for their monotheistic tenets, I have no idea at all.

What I do know for certain, is the fact that historical and archeological evidence, coupled with the present day pagan rites of the muslims, is proof positive that allah of islam is the allah of pagan moon god Arabia. (allah is definitely not the God of the Jews / Christians)

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Brian Ross

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #39 - Mar 13^th, 2017 at 5:54pm

Grendel wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:41am:

Ah no the Crusades and Inquisition and sending out Missionaries to convert the world to Christianity stopped ages ago... only a fool would state otherwise in the SECULAR WEST today these sentiments hardly exist and similarly as practices.

Anyone become a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness lately?

Seems to be happening in Sweden/Finland/Russia/India/Sub-Saharan Africa and even China and Korea (ROK) nowadays quite often, Geoff. Tsk, tsk, how nasty of the Evangelical Christians/Mormons/Jehovah's to be doing that to embarrass you. Roll Eyes

Quote:

In the 21st century, there are Evangelical churches active in Sudan, Angola, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Malawi, Rwanda, Uganda, Ghana, Kenya, Zambia, South Africa, and Nigeria.
[...]
South Korea has been referred as an "evangelical superpower" for being the home to some of the largest and most dynamic Christian churches in the world; South Korea is also second to the U.S. in the number of missionaries sent abroad.

[Source]

Quote:

The Pentecostal and Charismatic movement is the third largest religious movement in Russia, after the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) and Islam, and it is growing rapidly.

[Source]

Quote:

In 2010 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) revealed its on-going efforts to negotiate with the Chinese authorities to regularize its activities in China. The LDS Church has had expatriate members worshipping in China for a few decades previous to this, but with restrictions.

[Source]

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam Reply #40 - Mar 13^th, 2017 at 7:10pm I just knew you'd be a goose and pop your head up. Go away and stop with the deflection and strawmen. eh... You as a Dr of Divinity must know you are being a disingenuous pr..k.
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Brian Ross

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #41 - Mar 13^th, 2017 at 7:13pm

Grendel wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 7:10pm:

I just knew you'd be a goose and pop your head up.
Go away and stop with the deflection and strawmen. eh...

You as a Dr of Divinity must know you are being a disingenuous pr..k. Cheesy

As I expected, you refuse to admit that your viewpoint is wrong, Geoff. Tsk, tsk, as always, you resort to ad hominem debate to cover your mistakes. Naughty, naughty, Geoff... Roll Eyes

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Grendel

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #42 - Mar 13^th, 2017 at 7:41pm

oh leave off bwian... like I said only a fool would say what you just did.

So the Mormons and others are spreading the word by the sword and forcing religious conversion upon them are they, they are all part of a state based, religion organised and sanctioned war against others to convert them all to christianity are they? Grin

Like I said... ONLY A FOOL.... Cheesy

Oh and puhlease the Evangelicals... they are not even a single entity Grin

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« Last Edit: Mar 13^th, 2017 at 7:58pm by Grendel »

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Grendel

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #43 - Mar 13^th, 2017 at 7:59pm

Brian Ross wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 7:13pm:

Grendel wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 7:10pm:

I just knew you'd be a goose and pop your head up.
Go away and stop with the deflection and strawmen. eh...

You as a Dr of Divinity must know you are being a disingenuous pr..k. Cheesy

As I expected, you refuse to admit that your viewpoint is wrong, Geoff. Tsk, tsk, as always, you resort to ad hominem debate to cover your mistakes. Naughty, naughty, Geoff... Roll Eyes

No bwian wrong again you don't even know when people are being honest with you because you spend all your time being so dishonest with others.

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Raven

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Re: Christianity vs Judaism vs Islam
Reply #44 - Mar 13^th, 2017 at 8:07pm

Grendel wrote on Mar 13^th, 2017 at 10:41am:

Ah no the Crusades and Inquisition and sending out Missionaries to convert the world to Christianity stopped ages ago... only a fool would state otherwise in the SECULAR WEST today these sentiments hardly exist and similarly as practices.

Anyone become a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness lately?

Are you arguing that Christianity doesn't want to convert people to their beliefs?

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Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"

Raven would rather ask questions that may never be answered, then accept answers which must never be questioned.

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