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Anthropogenic Global Warming (Read 18292 times)
lee
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #105 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 1:10pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:58am:
Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:10am:
A modern day bookburning:

http://grist.org/article/coders-to-the-rescue-for-nasas-earth-science-data/

Crap like this happened in England too, whole libraries thrown into rubbish dumps.

Seems right wing governments want nothing but the party line accepted.



Thought I would bring this to the front again after all the crap posted to bury it.



Gee. A book burning that isn't happening, according to you. Wink

BTW- I am all for saving the "data", As long as they also keep their methodology. Wink
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« Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2017 at 1:15pm by lee »  
 
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #106 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 1:14pm
 
BTW- you still haven't explained how 62% no change or increase in kelp forests is one of the bad things of AGW.

I thought you were going to answer questions.
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Jovial Monk
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #107 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 6:15pm
 
I mentioned this article before, now I will go into it in some detail.

Please bear in mind it was written in Feb 2015 especially when it talks about rainfall on the west coast of the US.

Link to the article again: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/weird-winter-weather-plot-thickens-as...

Quote:
Weird Winter Weather Plot Thickens
as Arctic Swiftly Warms


Nobody will argue that the weather has been a bit weird. Some cherry pick bits of weirdness to argue the world is cooling: these propagandists never ever quote global temps or science, cherry picking and exaggerating is what they do and most are quite happy to lie to push their view on weather. Almost like they are paid to do so, hmmm.

Quote:
Everyone loves to talk about the weather, and this winter Mother Nature has served up a feast to chew on. Few parts of the US have been spared her wrath.
Severe drought and abnormally warm conditions continue in the west, with the first-ever rain-free January in San Francisco; bitter cold hangs tough over the upper Midwest and Northeast; and New England is being buried by a seemingly endless string of snowy nor’easters.

Yes, droughts, cold and snowstorms have happened before, but the persistence of this pattern over North America is starting to raise eyebrows. Is climate change at work here?


This year, as commenters to the ridiculous Dubyne videos have noted the northern Midwest has been HOT. Chicago 70°F from memory. But you can see there in that “bitter cold” the opportunities for snake oil salesmen to crap on about “global cooling.” Easy to do when you don’t cover other parts of the world and their temperatures. Just cherry pick the cold bits.

California suffered nearly five years of drought—notice the reference to a rain free San Francisco above? That broke this year with wild rainfalls, 8" from a storm. I think tho that California will return to a drought when these wild storms stop. Seemed to have been a pattern of California slowly drying out (as is the Colorado River which I will post about soon.)

Quote:
Wavier jet stream

One thing we do know is that the polar jet stream—a fast river of wind up where jets fly that circumnavigates the northern hemisphere—has been doing some odd things in recent years.

Rather than circling in a relatively straight path, the jet stream has meandered more in north-south waves. In the west, it’s been bulging northward, arguably since December 2013—a pattern dubbed the “Ridiculously Resilient Ridge” by meteorologists. In the east, we’ve seen its southern-dipping counterpart, which I call the “Terribly Tenacious Trough.”


...

Quote:
These long-lived shifts from the polar jet stream’s typical pattern have been responsible for some wicked weather this winter, with cold Arctic winds blasting everywhere from the Windy City to the Big Apple for weeks at a time.

We know that climate change is increasing the odds of extreme weather such as heatwaves, droughts and unusually heavy precipitation events, but is it making these sticky jet-stream patterns more likely, too? Maybe.


Maybe indeed? Do the wild rain storms “atmospheric rivers” etc over California indicate that the ridge has gone? We know that the ‘windy city’ of Chicago has enjoyed (well some do, some wanted cold and snow) 70°F winter this month.

Considering the weather Europe suffered last month is does seem the trough moved east as has the ridge.

Quote:
Slowing, drunken path
The jet stream is a dastardly complex creature, and figuring out what makes it tick has challenged atmospheric scientists since it was discovered about 75 years ago. Even more elusive is figuring out how climate change will affect it.

Jet streams exist because of differences in air temperature. In the case of the polar jet stream, which is responsible for most of the weather we experience around the middle-latitudes of the northern hemisphere, it’s the cold Arctic butting against warmer areas to the south that drives it. (A more in-depth explanation can be found here.)


If jet streams exist because of differences of temperature then it is not hard to figure out that as the Arctic warms the Jet Stream will weaken.

Then and now:
...

Quote:
This is where climate change comes in: the Arctic is warming much faster than elsewhere. That Arctic/mid-latitude temperature difference, consequently, is getting smaller. And the smaller differential in temperatures is causing the west-to-east winds in the jet to weaken.

Strong jets tend to blow straight west to east; weaker jets tend to wander more in a drunken north/south path, increasing the likelihood of wavy patterns like the one we’ve seen almost non-stop since last winter.


The Arctic, just to remind you, is warming faster due to a positive feedback loop: as ice melts in the NH spring and summer sunlight tends to hit dark ocean and be absorbed, warming the ocean. If ice extent was more like what it was in the 1970s say more sunlight would hit light colored ice and be reflected back out to space.

Positive feedback loops are the devil!

Cont’d
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« Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2017 at 6:32pm by Jovial Monk »  

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lee
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #108 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 6:30pm
 
Did they link it to AGW? From your post it is not clear.

Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 6:15pm:
California suffered nearly five years of drought—notice the reference to a rain free San Francisco above? That broke this year with wild rainfalls, 8" from a storm. I think tho that California will return to a drought when these wild storms stop. Seemed to have been a pattern of California slowly drying out (as is the Colorado River which I will post about soon.)



You realise California has a long history of drought and flood. Last year they were talking about a 200 year drought. Wink
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« Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2017 at 6:48pm by lee »  
 
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #109 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 6:54pm
 
cont’d

Quote:
When the jet stream’s waves grow larger, they tend to move eastward more slowly, which means the weather they generate also moves more slowly, creating more persistent weather patterns.

At least, that’s the theory. Proving it is not easy because other changes are happening in the climate system simultaneously. Some are natural fluctuations, such as El Niño, and others are related to increasing greenhouse gases.

We do know, however, that the Arctic is changing in a wholesale way and at a pace that makes even Arctic scientists queasy. Take sea ice, for example. In only 30 years, its volume has declined by about 60%, which is causing ripple effects throughout the ocean, atmosphere, and ecosystem, both within the Arctic and beyond. I’ve been studying the Arctic atmosphere and sea ice my entire career and I never imagined I’d see the region change so much and so fast.


Quote:
To study the effects of Arctic change on weather patterns, we have good measurements of atmospheric temperatures and winds going back to the late 1970s, when satellites started providing data, and pretty good measurements back to the late 1940s.

My colleagues and I have been using this information to measure the waviness of the jet stream and whether it is behaving differently since the Arctic started its rapid warm-up about 20 years ago. Because the upper atmosphere is such a cacophony of swirling winds, however, measuring changes in the jet stream’s waviness is tricky, as it’s not a metric that scientists have traditionally used.


Note the careful use of language. No bombastic “this is what is happening” we find in a Dubyne video. Difficulties are mentioned, the problems stated upfront.

Quote:
A number of recent studies have found what appears to be a solid connection between sea-ice loss in an area north of western Russia during the fall and a rash of abnormally cold winters in central Asia. The loss of sea ice favors a northward bulge in the jet stream, which strengthens surface high pressure to the east. That shift pumps cold Arctic air southward into central Asia.

Other studies suggest that Arctic warming in summer leads to a split jet stream—or two separated rivers of wind—which tends to trap the waves. Those stationary waves cause weather conditions to remain “stuck” for long periods, increasing the likelihood of extreme heat waves, droughts and flooding events in Eurasia and North America.


A look at a map or Arctic temperatures certainly shows the Siberia part of the Arctic as being very cold.

Quote:
Our own new work, published last month in Environmental Research Letters, uses a variety of new metrics to show that the jet stream is becoming wavier and that rapid Arctic warming is playing a role. If these results are confirmed, then we’ll see our weather patterns become more persistent.


So weather, especially in the northern hemisphere will change due to the Jetstream becoming wavier, more meandering. With huge rain in California and a very cold spell in Europe last month it may be that the meandering of the Jet Stream is not all that sticky, the waviness may move fairly quickly.

More study needed!


What about the Southern Hemisphere? We have circumpolar winds and currents that have kept Antartica isolated from changes elsewhere. For how much longer?

I have already posted about ice shelves around Antarctica breaking away. Seems warmer currents are reaching the coast of Antarctica so the circumpolar currents there must have weakened. Last winter a blast of Antarctic weather hit the east coast of Australia bringing snow to places as far north as southern Queensland. Earlier this year very hot air moving from the east coast of Australia to over the Tasman Sea turned into a very low pressure system that travelled to NZ where it met a system from Antarctica and summer snow fell in NZ. Earlier this month snow fell in some of the Australian Alps.

It seems then that Antarctic weather is going to escape Antarctica more and more often.

All driven by AGW.
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lee
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #110 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 7:25pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 6:54pm:
All driven by AGW.



Jumping the shark again. Wink
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #111 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 8:51pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 6:54pm:
All driven by AGW.


Everyone has an opinion just like everyone has an arse hole.

The arctic has had ben doing this for quite some time, nothing new.

I'ld like to see you prove its because of AGW.


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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #112 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 8:52pm
 
Coal fired generators are becoming stranded assets. Yallourn Power Station in Victoria is going to close soon. Here is another one about to close:

Quote:
The West’s coal giant is closing way ahead of schedule



The smokestacks of the Navajo Generating Station rise 775 feet from the sere landscape of the Navajo Nation in northern Arizona, just three miles away from the serpentine, stagnant blue wound in sandstone known as Lake Powell. Red rock cliffs and the dark and heavy hump of Navajo Mountain loom in the background. Since construction began in 1969, the coal plant and its associated mine on Black Mesa have provided millions of dollars to the Navajo and Hopi tribes and hundreds of jobs to local communities, as well as electricity to keep the lights on and air conditioners humming in the metastasizing cities of Phoenix, Tucson, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles. Yet, they’ve also stood as symbols of the exploitation of Native Americans, of the destruction of the land, and of the sullying of the air, all to provide cheap power to the Southwest.

But coal power is no longer the best energy bargain. And on Monday, the plant’s four private utility owners, led by the Salt River Project, voted to shut down the plant at the end of 2019, some 25 years ahead of schedule.


The article goes on to show the hardship this closure will cause to the Indian tribes on whose land the power station and mine are, the employees and contractors of the power station. So why close mine and power station?

Quote:
The air (and water and land) will be a lot cleaner without Navajo Generating Station, one of the biggest polluters in the West

20 million metric tons carbon dioxide equivalent — Amount of greenhouse gases emitted by the power plant (carbon dioxide) and the mine (methane) each year.
8.6 million metric tons CO2 — Amount of greenhouse gases emitted yearly by a natural gas plant generating the same amount of electricity as the Navajo Generating Station. This does not account for leaks during natural gas production, processing, transportation, and storage.

472, 4370, 259 — Pounds of mercury, selenium, and arsenic, respectively, that spew from the power plant’s smokestacks each year. These elements are toxic to wildlife and humans and have shown up in relatively high concentrations in fish in the Grand Canyon and the San Juan River upstream from Lake Powell, as well as in precipitation at Mesa Verde National Park. Natural gas combustion emits only negligible amounts of these elements.

1.3 million — Tons of coal combustion waste produced by the plant each year, about 75 percent of which is disposed of nearby, with the rest sold for use in other applications.


Clean coal ahahahahahahaha!

Quote:
Both the Kayenta Mine and the Navajo Generating Station use large amounts of water. The Bureau of Reclamation owns a large share of the plant, and uses most of its electricity to run the pumps for the Central Arizona Project, which delivers Colorado River water to Arizona cities.

1,200 acre feet — Amount of groundwater the mine draws from the Navajo Aquifer each year. (Prior to the 2005 closure of the Mohave Generating Station, another 3,000 acre feet was used to slurry the coal 273 miles from the mine to the plant, drying up important springs in the area.)
28,000 acre feet (9 billion gallons) — Amount of water drawn from Lake Powell each year for steam generation and cooling at the plant. This is all consumptive use, meaning none of this water is returned to the source.

3 million megawatt-hours — Amount of electricity the CAP uses to lift, transport, and deliver 1.6 million acre feet of Colorado River water to Phoenix and Tucson annually. (Enough to power about 240,000 Arizona homes for one year).


cont’d

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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #113 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:01pm
 
Economics drove the decision, economics:

Quote:
Salt River Project officials have been very clear on this point. They note that it’s now cheaper for them to buy power for their 1 million customers from other sources than it is to generate power at Navajo, thanks mostly to low natural gas prices. A November 2016 study by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory found that the Central Arizona Project pays about 15 percent more for electricity from the power plant — of which it is part owner — than it would if it bought power wholesale from the Mead trading hub located near Las Vegas.

None of this will change even if President Donald Trump rolls back the Clean Power Plan or other regulations put in place by the Obama administration. In fact, if a drill-heavy energy policy is put into place, it will increase natural gas supplies, thus increasing the spread between natural gas and coal. Having said that, California’s move away from coal power lowers the value of the plant’s power, and the requirement that the plant install nitrous oxide-reducing equipment increases costs — so environmental protections do play a role, albeit a smaller one than economics.


The move away from coal power, turning coal fired generators into stranded assets is a sign of the times.

Quote:
Although it’s happening slowly, the electrical landscape is evolving. The days of vertically integrated utilities that own huge, centralized power stations and their own balkanized grids are giving way to a new era in which utilities purchase power generated by smaller plants that are connected to larger, regional grids.

California’s independent grid operator has already joined up with NV Energy, PacifiCorp, and other Western utilities to form an energy imbalance market, which allows the utilities to share generators — be they wind, solar, natural gas, or coal — to “balance” their grids in real time, rather than having to rely only on their own generators. These utilities are hoping to expand this market and then take it to the next level of a regional, integrated grid in coming years. The closure of Navajo Generating Station adds new urgency to this effort.



http://grist.org/article/the-wests-coal-giant-is-closing-way-ahead-of-schedule/

The same thing is happening here, Rio Tinto is trying to get rid of the last of its coal mines here. Good that it is, coal is about the dirtiest fossil fuel there is, in terms is both normal pollution and GHG emissions.

As rooftop solar panels spread, including to commercial rooftops—the Adelaide Central Market has hundreds of them on their large roof space—the economics of large power stations will change.
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #114 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:09pm
 
You foolish man............!!!

Who owns all the utilities of the world...??

Who owns all the coal mines...............??

Who owns all the oil and gas..............??

Who owns the private banks..............??

Who owns the media..........................??

Who owns research centres................??

Who owns the stock markets..............??

etc, etc ,etc ,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc.................!!

I'll tell you a little secret.................... Smiley

The oligarchy.

Who's behind the AGW scare.............??

The oligarchy............... Wink

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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lee
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #115 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:14pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:01pm:
Economics drove the decision, economics:



Yep. You heard of Soros? Short sold the coal mine and then bought them. Wink

And because of the subsidies paid to renewables. When they generate or not.
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #116 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:23pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:01pm:
Economics drove the decision, economics:


It was also an economist who postulated Anthropogenic Global Warming back in the 1970's.

And these melons on the oligarchy's payroll  that pass themselves od as scientists have been trying to prove it every since.


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« Last Edit: Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:32pm by Ajax »  

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #117 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:30pm
 
It was also an economist who said 2ºC was dangerous.
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #118 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:31pm
 
lee wrote on Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:30pm:
It was also an economist who said 2ºC was dangerous.


Thanks Lee that's was I was thinking of... Smiley
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming
Reply #119 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 9:32pm
 
A study by the US Geological Survey shows that the El Nino/La Nina cycle is getting more and more extreme.

Cover that tomorrow or later in the week.
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