Australian Politics Forum - Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21563 Gender:	Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability Reply #15 - Jul 6^th, 2016 at 7:13pm Yes, another possible explanation. lee wrote on Jul 6^th, 2016 at 3:46pm: The reasons are really unknown.
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miketrees Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6492 Gender:	Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability Reply #16 - Jul 6^th, 2016 at 7:32pm So it could be fresh water melting from the land and freezing at higher temps than sea water? Ocean currents changed? so less warm water from the mid latitudes are mixing? None of the links have opened for me so I am riding blind here.
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lee

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Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability
Reply #17 - Jul 6^th, 2016 at 8:36pm

My top link works. The second doesn't. I know the nasa one didn't for me so I googled the first four words.

My one again

https://www2.ucar.edu/atmosnews/121622/expanding-antarctic-sea-ice-linked-natura...

or google ucar antarctic and search for the last week.

The melt theory doesn't really meld with an increasing Antarctic ice mass.

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« Last Edit: Jul 6^th, 2016 at 9:05pm by lee »

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability
Reply #18 - Jul 7^th, 2016 at 1:35am

lee wrote on Jul 6^th, 2016 at 7:13pm:

Yes, another possible explanation.

lee wrote on Jul 6^th, 2016 at 3:46pm:

The reasons are really unknown.

....unlike your general posture in these chat rooms which dismisses all AGW causal drivers coupled to fossil fuel combustion and de-forestation.

Isnt that right lee? These cannot even be POSSIBLE explanations for the enhanced thermal retention rates measured on the planet that stand on.

So that leaves lee with only one question to answer

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lee

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Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability
Reply #19 - Jul 7^th, 2016 at 12:12pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 7^th, 2016 at 1:35am:

So that leaves lee with only one question to answer

And you reckpon the answer to all questions is...

CO₂

Quote:

unlike your general posture in these chat rooms which dismisses all AGW causal drivers coupled to fossil fuel combustion and de-forestation.

And yet I have never denied de-forestation causes climate change. Also I have said "all other things being equal increased CO₂ will cause some warming. Are all other things equal?" "How much warming?"

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« Last Edit: Jul 7^th, 2016 at 12:17pm by lee »

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Squire

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Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability
Reply #20 - Jul 7^th, 2016 at 12:27pm

Sea ice minimum sets new record.

washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/06/07/weve-never-seen-anythin
g-like-this-arctic-sea-ice-hit-a-stunning-new-low-in-may/

Quote:

The 2016 race downward in Arctic sea ice continued in May with a dramatic new record.

The average area of sea ice atop the Arctic Ocean last month was just 12 million square kilometers (4.63 million square miles), according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC). That beats the prior May record (from 2004) by more than half a million square kilometers, and is well over a million square kilometers, or 500,000 square miles, below the average for the month.

Another way to put it is this: The Arctic Ocean this May had more than three Californias less sea ice cover than it did during an average May between 1981 and 2010. And it broke the prior record low for May by a region larger than California, although not quite as large as Texas.

This matters because 2016 could be marching toward a new record for the lowest amount of ice ever observed on top of the world at the height of melt season — September. The previous record September low was set in 2012. But here’s what the National Snow and Ice Data Center has to say about that:

Daily extents in May were also two to four weeks ahead of levels seen in 2012, which had the lowest September extent in the satellite record. The monthly average extent for May 2016 is more than one million square kilometers (386,000 square miles) below that observed in May 2012.

In other words, for Arctic sea ice, May 2016 was more like June 2012 — the record-breaking year. Going into the truly warm months of the year, then, the ice is in a uniquely weak state.

“We’ve never seen anything like this before,” said Mark Serreze, who directs the center. “It’s way below the previous record, very far below it, and we’re something like almost a month ahead of where we were in 2012.”

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lee

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Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability
Reply #21 - Jul 7^th, 2016 at 2:15pm

Squire wrote on Jul 7^th, 2016 at 12:27pm:

Sea ice minimum sets new record.

Ah, The Arctic, as opposed to the Antarctic. You do realise they only work on post-1978, right?

You may not have heard of Adolf Erik Nordenskiöld, who sailed the Arctic Circle in 1878.

' Sailing from Tromsø, Norway, aboard the steam vessel Vega on July 21, 1878, he reached Cape Chelyushkin, Siberia, roughly the midpoint of his journey, on August 19. From the end of September until July 18, 1879, the ship was frozen in near the Bering Strait. Resuming its course, the Vega reached Port Clarence, Alaska, on July 22 and returned to Europe by way of Canton (China), Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), and the Suez Canal. '

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Adolf-Erik-Baron-Nordenskiold

And all without modern shipbuilding techniques, modern engines, modern navigation aids and modern icebreakers.

Are you really so sure it is a record? Or merely a modern record?

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21563 Gender:	Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability Reply #22 - Jul 7^th, 2016 at 2:38pm The current Arctic Ice map https://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_stddev_timeseries.png
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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability
Reply #23 - Jul 7^th, 2016 at 2:58pm

lee wrote on Jul 7^th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 7^th, 2016 at 1:35am:

So that leaves lee with only one question to answer

And you reckpon the answer to all questions is...

CO₂

Quote:

unlike your general posture in these chat rooms which dismisses all AGW causal drivers coupled to fossil fuel combustion and de-forestation.

And yet I have never denied de-forestation causes climate change. Also I have said "all other things being equal increased CO₂ will cause some warming. Are all other things equal?" "How much warming?"

some warming?

...but nothing for the fossil fuel scam industry to worry about

it can continue gouging over 500 billion dollars world wide in tax payer funded subsidies as well as fuel wars and drive political destabilisation across the planet.

what a convenient posture you erect in this forum.

Your list of overdue apologies is growing by the day lee.

you should be utterly ashamed of yourself. Just because your mate Mal was skinned alive in last week's election doesnt mean you can take out your frustration and deceptive verbal vitriol on the good folk of Ozpolotic.com

Now apologise and self ban for at least 48 hours

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21563 Gender:	Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability Reply #24 - Jul 7^th, 2016 at 3:13pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Jul 7^th, 2016 at 2:58pm: some warming? Are all other things equal?
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The_Barnacle

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Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability
Reply #25 - Jul 7^th, 2016 at 9:32pm

lee wrote on Jul 6^th, 2016 at 3:46pm:

miketrees wrote on Jul 6^th, 2016 at 3:22pm:

May I have the readers digest version please?

Is there more sea ice in the Antarctic, if so why so?

Is it a change in ocean currents?

The reasons are really unknown.

Not according to your opening post Lee.

Mike: The study in the opening post has found that the recent trend of increasing Antarctic sea ice extent can largely be explained by a natural climate fluctuation.

So this fluctuation will come and go over time (much like the El Nino does) but in the background global warming will continue.

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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lee

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Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability
Reply #26 - Jul 8^th, 2016 at 11:37am

The_Barnacle wrote on Jul 7^th, 2016 at 9:32pm:

Not according to your opening post Lee.

Mike: The study in the opening post has found that the recent trend of increasing Antarctic sea ice extent can largely be explained by a natural climate fluctuation.

So this fluctuation will come and go over time (much like the El Nino does) but in the background global warming will continue.

As I pointed out to Mike- increased ice melt and increased ice mass balance don't appear to meld really well. If we have increased ice melt, we have to have more precipitation, to achieve not only ice mass balance, but more to increase ice mass balance.

'A Desert is defined as a region that has less than 254 mm (10 in) of annual rainfall or precipitation. Antarctica can be classified as a desert by this definition. In the interior of the continent the average annual precipitation (in *equivalent of water) is only about 50 mm (about 2 in), less than the Sahara.'

http://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica%20fact%20file/antarctica%20environment/...

There does not appear to be any major increase in precipitation.

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Ajax

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Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability
Reply #27 - Jul 9^th, 2016 at 10:08am

Nothing unusual about the arctic losing its ice every year.

September 1957 - arctic decreases by 40%

May 1947 - arctic melting

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/22429983?searchTerm=climate%20change&sea...

November 1922 - arctic melting

http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/050/mwr-050-11-0589a.pdf

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 11070 Australia Gender:	Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability Reply #28 - Jul 9^th, 2016 at 10:09am https://www.britannica.com/biography/Adolf-Erik-Baron-Nordenskiold
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Ajax

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Re: Antarctic - Expanding Sea Ice- Natural Variability
Reply #29 - Jul 9^th, 2016 at 10:19am

Some undeniable facts.

CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

CO2 does contribute to global warming buts its very minor.

CO2 is a trace gas and occupies 0.04% of the atmosphere.

CO2 the amount of this gas in our atmosphere is controlled by the temperature of the Earth and what our sun is doing, not to mention cosmic rays from space and many other local factors.

CO2 most of it in our atmosphere is NATURAL not man made.

CO2 Has been much much higher than today's 400ppm, in the past it has reached 7000ppm and there was no runaway greenhouse effect.

CO2 is not pollution, we drink it in our beer and soft drinks, that's what those bubbles are, no CO2 in beer and soft drink and we call it flat.

CO2 is part of the air we breathe in and out.

CO2 has never correlated with temperature.

CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth.

Not in our past or our present. There have been times when CO2 was high and temperature low and there have been times when temperature was high and CO2 low.

If you cant be bothered watching it all go to the 53 minute mark and watch this video for the Earth's energy budget.

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« Last Edit: Jul 9^th, 2016 at 10:35am by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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