Australian Politics Forum - Hunger strike over cashless welfare card

cods Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88048	Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card Reply #15 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 12:11pm it doesnt matter who you are you need to feel RESPECTED..... if this makes you feel worse than any prisoner in a cell....then there is something wrong.. I can see a point where some control needs to be had.. but really...taking away peoples DIGNITY doesnt do it for me..
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Webtoad

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #16 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 12:13pm

John Smith wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 11:18am:

He has a very valid argument. He isn't disputing the card Or even the reasons for it. He happily accepted his card.

why is the govt. keeping secret WHO has access to all his personal information? Why do they need to provide those details to private companies in the first place?

I agree.

The 'hunger strike' bit is ridiculous although the privacy concern is valid.

Not all of the welfare money goes onto this card either does it? Eg. people still get cash normally also.

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bogarde73

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #17 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 1:12pm

The so called "cashless" welfare card is misnomer.
It's main purpose is to reduce the possibility for the vulnerable to waste their welfare on alcohol & gambling. It requires a proportion of the benefits to be spent in designated places such as the major supermarkets.
It ought to be compulsory for all recipients of new start & like. Benefits, as well as for aboriginals and refugees.

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Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.

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Bam

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #18 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 1:14pm

Webtoad wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 12:13pm:

John Smith wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 11:18am:

He has a very valid argument. He isn't disputing the card Or even the reasons for it. He happily accepted his card.

why is the govt. keeping secret WHO has access to all his personal information? Why do they need to provide those details to private companies in the first place?

I agree.

The 'hunger strike' bit is ridiculous although the privacy concern is valid.

Not all of the welfare money goes onto this card either does it? Eg. people still get cash normally also.

Not when merchants are price gouging because people have no choice.

This paternalistic interference in people's lives won't have any positive benefits and plenty of negative ones. It is an expensive waste of money that would cost thousands per year per person to run. Better to spend the money creating jobs rather than pandering to Coalition donors.

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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card Reply #19 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 1:21pm That will help the vulnerable, who will always be with us, to use their money to feed the kids etc won't it.
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Bobby.

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #20 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 1:25pm

Bam wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 11:47am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 11:41am:

What about his wife & kid?

How will they eat if he has cut up his card?

Why can't he just get told the information he wants? Why is it such a state secret who has access to the information and why?

That doesn't answer my questions.

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Bam

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #21 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 1:34pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 1:25pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 11:47am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 11:41am:

What about his wife & kid?

How will they eat if he has cut up his card?

Why can't he just get told the information he wants? Why is it such a state secret who has access to the information and why?

That doesn't answer my questions.

You also have not provided any answer to mine, but in fairness it is DHS who should be answering them.

Why would DHS prefer to see someone starve than answer some very simple questions?

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Bam

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #22 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 1:40pm

bogarde73 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 1:21pm:

That will help the vulnerable, who will always be with us, to use their money to feed the kids etc won't it.

Not if these vulnerable people are having significant portions of their payment stolen by unscrupulous merchants who are overcharging them. Many of these vulnerable people have no choice over where they can buy their essentials so up goes the price. It is theft, pure and simple.

Quote:

In Ceduna where they started trials on the basics card, people are claiming shops that allow it to be used there are upping the prices and taking advantage of people’s lack of choice. One lady even told us that if she spends over $100 at Coles and uses her card, they charge her an extra $32. People from the trials have complained about not being able to purchase from local farmers, not having cash to send to send their children on school camps or excursions, having no money available for family outings, and these photos from the Kununurra show just go to show the effect the cards are having on family life.

Quote:

Normally on opening night at any show, sideshow alley is packed with smiling children and their parents. But people just do not have the money available for these simple things anymore.

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Neferti

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #23 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 1:58pm

Here you are, read all about it.

Quote:

Cashless Debit Card Trial – Overview

The Commonwealth Government is looking at the best possible ways to provide support to people, families and communities in locations where high levels of welfare dependence exist alongside high levels of harm related to drug and alcohol abuse.

The Cashless Debit Card Trial is aimed at finding an effective tool for supporting disadvantaged communities to reduce the consumption and effects of drugs, alcohol and gambling that impact on the health and wellbeing of communities, families and children.

How the cashless debit card works

The cashless debit card looks and operates like a normal bank card, except it cannot be used to buy alcohol or gambling products, or to withdraw cash.

The card can be used anywhere that accepts debit cards. It will work online, for shopping and paying bills. The Indue website lists the approved merchants and excluded merchants for the trial.
Who will take part in the trial?

Under the trial, all recipients of working age income support payments who live in a trial location will receive a cashless debit card.

The full list of included payments is available on the Guides to Social Security Law website.

People on the Age Pension, a veteran’s payment or who earn a wage can volunteer to take part in the trial. Information on volunteering for the trial is available. Application forms for people who wish to volunteer can be downloaded from the Indue website.

How will it affect Centrelink payments?

The trial doesn’t change the amount of money a person receives from Centrelink. It only changes the way in which people receive and spend their fortnightly payments:

80 per cent is paid onto the cashless debit card
20 per cent is paid into a person’s regular bank account.

https://www.dss.gov.au/families-and-children/programmes-services/welfare-conditi...

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Bam

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #24 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:14pm

Quote:

The Commonwealth Government is looking at the best possible ways to provide support to people, families and communities in locations where high levels of welfare dependence exist alongside high levels of harm related to drug and alcohol abuse.

The Cashless Debit Card Trial is aimed at finding an effective tool for supporting disadvantaged communities to reduce the consumption and effects of drugs, alcohol and gambling that impact on the health and wellbeing of communities, families and children.

Except it doesn't. It won't do anything to curb these alleged problems. All it is doing is fostering the black market. People who want to indulge in these vices will find a way around it. It is common for people who are being forced onto this kind of program to purchase "approved" items with the cards and then on-sell those items, often at a loss, to get cash. It causes more harm than good because other people are being overcharged for basic goods due to lack of choice.

This is the sort of problem we get when rent seekers are indulged. All the rent seekers have to do is wave a bucket of cash at the Coaltiion, and the Coalition gets weak at the knees. If this paternalistic crap was rolled out across the country, it would cost billions to run, take more billions out of the hands of those who need it the most, and have no effect on the consumption of legal vices.

If alcohol and tobacco was such a problem, why not just ban them for everyone?

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Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card Reply #25 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:20pm The point is, we should NOT have ANY right to tell people how to spend THEIR money.
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Bam

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #26 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:25pm

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:20pm:

The point is, we should NOT have ANY right to tell people how to spend THEIR money.

Exactly! It's not as if alcohol abuse is such a widespread problem. So why punish all social security recipients for the perceived sins of a few? If such a card is such a good idea, why not roll out income management for everyone including salary and wage earners and the wealthy? Most alcohol and drug abuse is done by people with jobs.

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John Smith

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #27 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:55pm

bogarde73 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 1:21pm:

That will help the vulnerable, who will always be with us, to use their money to feed the kids etc won't it.

bullsh1t ... it will only make the vulnerable more vulnerable ...

from the OP.

he could already see a black market popping up in town, with people paying $150 cash for $200 worth of product purchased with a card.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card Reply #28 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:56pm can we do the same with politicians credit cards?
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BigOl64

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #29 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 3:04pm

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:20pm:

The point is, we should NOT have ANY right to tell people how to spend THEIR money.

Their money that they earn through their own efforts; not some welfare handout earned by the efforts of someone else .... ohh wait it is a hand out earned by some one else's' efforts and given to welfare recipients as a temporary measure.

There is an easy solution, earn your own money and you can then complain about how the government wastes your tax dollars of bullsh1t too. Grin

In short you have no right to complain about money someone else earned for you.

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