Australian Politics Forum - Hunger strike over cashless welfare card

Setanta

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #60 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 8:14pm

Bam wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:31pm:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:20pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:25pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:20pm:

The point is, we should NOT have ANY right to tell people how to spend THEIR money.

Exactly! It's not as if alcohol abuse is such a widespread problem. So why punish all social security recipients for the perceived sins of a few? If such a card is such a good idea, why not roll out income management for everyone including salary and wage earners and the wealthy? Most alcohol and drug abuse is done by people with jobs.

what an ignorant more on..

people like you make me sick to my stomach..

go live in Kununurra for 12 month and I'm 100% positive that you'll change your stupid ignorant ways...

why on earth do you think that they are doing the trial in Kununurra in the first place???

huh???

People with facts make you sick because they expose your ignorance.

There are about 700,000 unemployed people in this country. The great majority do not have alcohol problems. You have no evidence to the contrary because no such evidence exists. And it is a fact that the majority of people with alcohol problems have jobs simply because there are more of them. There is no evidence to support the proposition that everyone who is unemployed has to be punished for the sins of a few. None whatsoever. Punishing people for crimes they never committed is not the mark of a free country.

Perhaps YOU are the one who should spend some time with unemployed people and you will have your eyes opened. Scientists, engineers, electricians, truck drivers, all manner of occupations and they are all without work simply because there are not enough jobs out there and there haven't been for forty years. There isn't a job fairy, even though some rightards seem to think otherwise.

If the govt declared war on welfare recipients, this would be against the Geneva Convention.

But then we do seem to be a country that likes to punish the majority for the actions of a small minority across the spectrum of behaviour.

Surely it's not that hard to identify those that may need this and those that don't. A look at their utility bill history would probably suffice.

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Lobo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7408 Sydney Gender:	Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card Reply #61 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 8:18pm 1
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #62 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 8:32pm

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:17pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:20pm:

The point is, we should NOT have ANY right to tell people how to spend THEIR money.

its NOT YOUR money...

its mine..

and I don't want you pissing it up against a wall like an ungrateful TURD.... Angry

Down the club Wednesday to raise a glass..... I'll remember you... even toast you....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Setanta

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #63 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 8:44pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 8:32pm:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:17pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:20pm:

The point is, we should NOT have ANY right to tell people how to spend THEIR money.

its NOT YOUR money...

its mine..

and I don't want you pissing it up against a wall like an ungrateful TURD.... Angry

Down the club Wednesday to raise a glass..... I'll remember you... even toast you....

I will too. I'll do it every beer I drink so that Mech will so feel the gratitude he'll tip in a few more tax dollars for my pension when I get there.

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Kat

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #64 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 8:58pm

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:17pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:20pm:

The point is, we should NOT have ANY right to tell people how to spend THEIR money.

its NOT YOUR money...

its mine..

and I don't want you pissing it up against a wall like an ungrateful TURD.... Angry

Wrong.

It is THEIRS, despite your claim to the contrary.

Claiming it's not their money just makes you look stupid.

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John Smith

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #65 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 8:59pm

Bobby. wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 8:00pm:

A little story.
A lady at work who runs a body corporate couldn't find anyone to
fix the roof guttering on some units.

5 different tradespeople turned the job down - & wouldn't even quote.

A 6th one turned up & quoted to fix the whole roof instead & mostly forgot about the guttering.

It seems that many tradespeople people don't want any work.

In my line of work, I come across that all the time. The problem is not finding someone to do the job, it's finding someone with the correct license and insurance who is willing to do the job.

The body corporate, or their insurance, can not accept work from someone who doesn't have both. For the body corporate to accept work from someone who doesn't have both would mean the body corp. would become liable if something went wrong.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #66 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:00pm

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 8:58pm:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:17pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:20pm:

The point is, we should NOT have ANY right to tell people how to spend THEIR money.

its NOT YOUR money...

its mine..

and I don't want you pissing it up against a wall like an ungrateful TURD.... Angry

Wrong.

It is THEIRS, despite your claim to the contrary.

Claiming it's not their money just makes you look stupid.

Mechanic does that on a daily basis

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card Reply #67 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:01pm You dont need to be licensed to fix guttering, get a grip.
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Kat

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #68 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:05pm

BigOl64 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 3:46pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 3:23pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 3:04pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:20pm:

The point is, we should NOT have ANY right to tell people how to spend THEIR money.

Their money that they earn through their own efforts; not some welfare handout earned by the efforts of someone else .... ohh wait it is a hand out earned by some one else's' efforts and given to welfare recipients as a temporary measure.

There is an easy solution, earn your own money and you can then complain about how the government wastes your tax dollars of bullsh1t too. Grin

In short you have no right to complain about money someone else earned for you.

BigOl, it IS THEIR MONEY.

It is NOT 'taxpayer's money, it is THEIRS. Does every deposit into your bank account still belong to the depositor? No, of course not.

Do these depositors retain the right to control what you do with those funds? Again, of course not.

No-Start is NO DIFFERENT.

It is NOT a 'hand-out', as the Right seem to believe. It is (grossly-inadequate) compensation for being unable to get a job.

And with job-seekers STILL outnumbering jobs by 8 to 1, your 'easy solution' is simply wishful thinking.

Stop using 1950s rhetoric to address a 2010s problem.

The only money I consider my money, is the money I earned.

So when the money I earned and taken from me to give to someone else who did nothing to earn it, is never to be considered as theirs to do with what ever they want.

The problem is that people become used to the fact the welfare is an acceptable income and they should feel good about receiving money they did not earn.

Not even a child should feel that money they didn't earn is their 'right'.

The dole is meant to be a temporary measure between jobs, not a fully funded lifestyle.

And once again, since you seem to have missed it...

Quote:

And with job-seekers STILL outnumbering jobs by 8 to 1, your 'easy solution' is simply wishful thinking.

Stop using 1950s rhetoric to address a 2010s problem.

Your out-dated rhetoric no longer applies.

For 7 out of 8 job-seekers, it IS their bloody 'lifestyle' whether they (or you) like it or not.

And doing nothing but abusing and denigrating them is NOT the answer.

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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card Reply #69 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:09pm Shorten Socialism - the road to DESPAIR!!!! I only open my mouth to change feet!!!!
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Kat

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #70 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:12pm

Setanta wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 8:14pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:31pm:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:20pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:25pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:20pm:

The point is, we should NOT have ANY right to tell people how to spend THEIR money.

Exactly! It's not as if alcohol abuse is such a widespread problem. So why punish all social security recipients for the perceived sins of a few? If such a card is such a good idea, why not roll out income management for everyone including salary and wage earners and the wealthy? Most alcohol and drug abuse is done by people with jobs.

what an ignorant more on..

people like you make me sick to my stomach..

go live in Kununurra for 12 month and I'm 100% positive that you'll change your stupid ignorant ways...

why on earth do you think that they are doing the trial in Kununurra in the first place???

huh???

People with facts make you sick because they expose your ignorance.

There are about 700,000 unemployed people in this country. The great majority do not have alcohol problems. You have no evidence to the contrary because no such evidence exists. And it is a fact that the majority of people with alcohol problems have jobs simply because there are more of them. There is no evidence to support the proposition that everyone who is unemployed has to be punished for the sins of a few. None whatsoever. Punishing people for crimes they never committed is not the mark of a free country.

Perhaps YOU are the one who should spend some time with unemployed people and you will have your eyes opened. Scientists, engineers, electricians, truck drivers, all manner of occupations and they are all without work simply because there are not enough jobs out there and there haven't been for forty years. There isn't a job fairy, even though some rightards seem to think otherwise.

If the govt declared war on welfare recipients, this would be against the Geneva Convention.

But then we do seem to be a country that likes to punish the majority for the actions of a small minority across the spectrum of behaviour.

Surely it's not that hard to identify those that may need this and those that don't.

A look at their utility bill history would probably suffice.

Probably not, actually.

Utility bills are often put off til the last minute or even allowed into arrears, in
order to cover other expenses and put food on the table.

As I've stated previously, I'd have no issue with this IF it was applied ONLY on
an individual basis and ONLY with strong supporting evidence from police, the
courts or DoCS etc.

To the other 95% of recipients, it's an unwarranted and un-needed imposition
and a blatant insult.

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Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card Reply #71 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:13pm juliar wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:09pm: Shorten Socialism - the road to DESPAIR!!!! http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2014/06/11/1229650/845547-2c6606a8-f129-11e... Oh, DO shut up! Isn't it past your bed-time?
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card Reply #72 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:15pm ian wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:01pm: You dont need to be licensed to fix guttering, get a grip. http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Tradespeople/Home_building_licensing/Licen... you do if you want to do work for a body corporate
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Bam

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #73 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:18pm

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:39pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:31pm:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:20pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:25pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:20pm:

The point is, we should NOT have ANY right to tell people how to spend THEIR money.

Exactly! It's not as if alcohol abuse is such a widespread problem. So why punish all social security recipients for the perceived sins of a few? If such a card is such a good idea, why not roll out income management for everyone including salary and wage earners and the wealthy? Most alcohol and drug abuse is done by people with jobs.

what an ignorant more on..

people like you make me sick to my stomach..

go live in Kununurra for 12 month and I'm 100% positive that you'll change your stupid ignorant ways...

why on earth do you think that they are doing the trial in Kununurra in the first place???

huh???

People with facts make you sick because they expose your ignorance.

There are about 700,000 unemployed people in this country. The great majority do not have alcohol problems. You have no evidence to the contrary because no such evidence exists. And it is a fact that the majority of people with alcohol problems have jobs simply because there are more of them. There is no evidence to support the proposition that everyone who is unemployed has to be punished for the sins of a few. None whatsoever. Punishing people for crimes they never committed is not the mark of a free country.

Perhaps YOU are the one who should spend some time with unemployed people and you will have your eyes opened. Scientists, engineers, electricians, truck drivers, all manner of occupations and they are all without work simply because there are not enough jobs out there and there haven't been for forty years. There isn't a job fairy, even though some rightards seem to think otherwise.

like a said .. go live in Kununurra for 12 months and you'll understand why they are trailing it there..

if you want to work in Australia you'll find work..

its that simple..

You have no idea what you're talking about, none at all.

There is NO job fairy. 700,000 people have no jobs because there are not the jobs available for them to fill. That is a simple fact that seems to have trouble breaking its way through your invincible ignorance.

If there were 700,000 unfilled vacancies in this country right now, we would be hearing a lot of justified complaints about labour shortages and the wages of workers wouldn't be growing at their slowest rate for over 50 years. That we are not hearing about this is evidence enough that we don't have a shortage of labour, we have a shortage of jobs. We have not had real full employment since about 1969.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Hunger strike over cashless welfare card
Reply #74 - Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:23pm

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

Setanta wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 8:14pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:31pm:

President Elect, The Mechanic wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 7:20pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:25pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 2:20pm:

The point is, we should NOT have ANY right to tell people how to spend THEIR money.

Exactly! It's not as if alcohol abuse is such a widespread problem. So why punish all social security recipients for the perceived sins of a few? If such a card is such a good idea, why not roll out income management for everyone including salary and wage earners and the wealthy? Most alcohol and drug abuse is done by people with jobs.

what an ignorant more on..

people like you make me sick to my stomach..

go live in Kununurra for 12 month and I'm 100% positive that you'll change your stupid ignorant ways...

why on earth do you think that they are doing the trial in Kununurra in the first place???

huh???

People with facts make you sick because they expose your ignorance.

There are about 700,000 unemployed people in this country. The great majority do not have alcohol problems. You have no evidence to the contrary because no such evidence exists. And it is a fact that the majority of people with alcohol problems have jobs simply because there are more of them. There is no evidence to support the proposition that everyone who is unemployed has to be punished for the sins of a few. None whatsoever. Punishing people for crimes they never committed is not the mark of a free country.

Perhaps YOU are the one who should spend some time with unemployed people and you will have your eyes opened. Scientists, engineers, electricians, truck drivers, all manner of occupations and they are all without work simply because there are not enough jobs out there and there haven't been for forty years. There isn't a job fairy, even though some rightards seem to think otherwise.

If the govt declared war on welfare recipients, this would be against the Geneva Convention.

But then we do seem to be a country that likes to punish the majority for the actions of a small minority across the spectrum of behaviour.

Surely it's not that hard to identify those that may need this and those that don't.

A look at their utility bill history would probably suffice.

Probably not, actually.

Utility bills are often put off til the last minute or even allowed into arrears, in
order to cover other expenses and put food on the table.

If the utility bill history showed a history of payment despite the circumstances, that would be compelling evidence of an ability to manage money. A better ability, in fact, than is shown by 95% of the population.

Kat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 9:12pm:

As I've stated previously, I'd have no issue with this IF it was applied ONLY on
an individual basis and ONLY with strong supporting evidence from police, the
courts or DoCS etc.

To the other 95% of recipients, it's an unwarranted and un-needed imposition
and a blatant insult.

And therein lies the problem. A system that is imposed on everyone, without any regard for their personal circumstances. Why stop there though? 90% of the workers in this country are one trip to HR away from retrenchment and unemployment at any time, so why not just give it to everyone pre-emptively?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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