Australian Politics Forum - Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?

BigOl64

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #30 - May 13^th, 2016 at 12:11pm

Sir lastnail wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 11:18am:

BigOl64 wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 10:48am:

Sir lastnail wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 10:40am:

Quote:

Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?

Because they don't need it Wink

"They" I thought you were a successful businessman with a luxury car.

That would be "we" wouldn't it?

Let me answer that for you, no "we" don't need a tax cut, but fkk it, Ill take it anyway.

i don't believe I have ever said that but try again sucker Wink

A lie of omission is still a lie.

But it is ok, I have asked for the tax cut on behalf of rich people, because WE deserve one.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20000 Gender:	Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts? Reply #31 - May 13^th, 2016 at 12:12pm GordyL wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 8:13am: winding back fuel subsidies for mining. You do know they are fuel tax credits, aka fuel rebates? That they are added into taxable income? They would have to be the only subsidies tax is paid on.
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Bam

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #32 - May 13^th, 2016 at 1:18pm

lee wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

GordyL wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 8:13am:

winding back fuel subsidies for mining.

You do know they are fuel tax credits, aka fuel rebates? That they are added into taxable income? They would have to be the only subsidies tax is paid on.

So what? The money would be better spent building infrastructure.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #33 - May 13^th, 2016 at 1:31pm

Stop the Offshoring!

In breaking news on Panamagate...... every day throws up (sic) a new list of criminally intent tax evasion masterminds who have deposited cash into offshore accounts...... the list grows longer daily and the ATO and Federal Police promise that no stone will be left unturned in digging up any names associated with the 'left' in Australia................ for more detail see editorial in The Daily Grind or catch the full bulletin on our Six O'Clock Follies News.... on KRUD....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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crocodile

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #34 - May 13^th, 2016 at 1:32pm

lee wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

GordyL wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 8:13am:

winding back fuel subsidies for mining.

You do know they are fuel tax credits, aka fuel rebates? That they are added into taxable income? They would have to be the only subsidies tax is paid on.

The fuel tax was added in the first place for roads funding. Miners build their own roads or the fuel is used in fixed plant. It isn't a subsidy it is a rebate because they don't make use of the infrastructure that the tax was supposed to be raised for.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #35 - May 13^th, 2016 at 1:38pm

lee wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

GordyL wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 8:13am:

winding back fuel subsidies for mining.

You do know they are fuel tax credits, aka fuel rebates? That they are added into taxable income? They would have to be the only subsidies tax is paid on.

So why bother giving with one hand and then taking with the other? I'll tell you why - because these rebates are simply to cover the idea that these off-roaders do not use the roads and thus should not pay road tax or equivalent..... therefore the 'rebate' is in no way any effect on profit or taxable income... it is not a cash handout, it is simply a neutral measure and gains nothing and costs nothing to either the end user or the government.

That's the theory anyway.. what the argument becomes is that this is tax money foregone - in the eyes of some....... and thus is a 'black hole' of some kind. IF - and that is a might big

IF

all that tax lovely from fuel actually went back into road and transport infrastructure..... few would argue the merits of fuel excise exemption.... farmers get it since they operate on private land and not roads, and it is simply too hard to keep track of their visits to the TAB in town etc.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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John Smith

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #36 - May 13^th, 2016 at 1:44pm

crocodile wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 1:32pm:

Miners build their own roads or the fuel is used in fixed plant. It isn't a subsidy it is a rebate because they don't make use of the infrastructure that the tax was supposed to be raised for.

really? I think that's a fallacy

I used to see hundreds of tucks full or coal or ore going up and down Pircton Rd and Mt Ousley Rd every day on their way to the Port Kembla steelworks ... miners didn't pay for those roads although the trucks certainly caused the most damage on them. Sire, miners might build the roads (or rail) around the mine, but the ports or refineries they ship to are usually a long way away from the mines

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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BigOl64

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #37 - May 13^th, 2016 at 1:55pm

John Smith wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 1:44pm:

crocodile wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 1:32pm:

Miners build their own roads or the fuel is used in fixed plant. It isn't a subsidy it is a rebate because they don't make use of the infrastructure that the tax was supposed to be raised for.

really? I think that's a fallacy

I used to see hundreds of tucks full or coal or ore going up and down Pircton Rd and Mt Ousley Rd every day on their way to the Port Kembla steelworks ... miners didn't pay for those roads although the trucks certainly caused the most damage on them. Sire, miners might build the roads (or rail) around the mine, but the ports or refineries they ship to are usually a long way away from the mines

The miner will rail to a port before trucking it there you are talking millions of tonnes of product per year and as for the Port Kembla, I dare say it was the steelworks doing the trucking, not the miner.

In some case they may use public roads, but it will be 'normal' trucks doing the work and they also get tax concessions for fuel just like every other truckie in Aus.

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Bam

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #38 - May 13^th, 2016 at 2:38pm

crocodile wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 1:32pm:

lee wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

GordyL wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 8:13am:

winding back fuel subsidies for mining.

You do know they are fuel tax credits, aka fuel rebates? That they are added into taxable income? They would have to be the only subsidies tax is paid on.

The fuel tax was added in the first place for roads funding. Miners build their own roads or the fuel is used in fixed plant. It isn't a subsidy it is a rebate because they don't make use of the infrastructure that the tax was supposed to be raised for.

Which is a quite specious argument from the industry. Do ordinary folks get rebates for petrol for lawnmowers or diesel for generators? No.

85% of the mining industry is foreign owned. We spend roughly as much on diesel rebates for foreigners as we spend on foreign aid.

We would be better off scrapping all of the fuel rebates and removing excise from alternative diesel fuels such as biodiesel and synthetics. Anyone who wants tax-free diesel for mining or farms can still do so under this plan, but would be growing new domestic industries and reducing our reliance on imports.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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John Smith

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #39 - May 13^th, 2016 at 3:33pm

BigOl64 wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 1:55pm:

John Smith wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 1:44pm:

crocodile wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 1:32pm:

Miners build their own roads or the fuel is used in fixed plant. It isn't a subsidy it is a rebate because they don't make use of the infrastructure that the tax was supposed to be raised for.

really? I think that's a fallacy

I used to see hundreds of tucks full or coal or ore going up and down Pircton Rd and Mt Ousley Rd every day on their way to the Port Kembla steelworks ... miners didn't pay for those roads although the trucks certainly caused the most damage on them. Sire, miners might build the roads (or rail) around the mine, but the ports or refineries they ship to are usually a long way away from the mines

The miner will rail to a port before trucking it there you are talking millions of tonnes of product per year and as for the Port Kembla, I dare say it was the steelworks doing the trucking, not the miner.

In some case they may use public roads, but it will be 'normal' trucks doing the work and they also get tax concessions for fuel just like every other truckie in Aus.

trying to say it wasn't the miner but the end user is semantics

coal was being trucked from the BHP Billiton Appin colliery to the BHP steelworks ...

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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crocodile

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #40 - May 13^th, 2016 at 5:30pm

Bam wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 2:38pm:

crocodile wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 1:32pm:

lee wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

GordyL wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 8:13am:

winding back fuel subsidies for mining.

You do know they are fuel tax credits, aka fuel rebates? That they are added into taxable income? They would have to be the only subsidies tax is paid on.

The fuel tax was added in the first place for roads funding. Miners build their own roads or the fuel is used in fixed plant. It isn't a subsidy it is a rebate because they don't make use of the infrastructure that the tax was supposed to be raised for.

Which is a quite specious argument from the industry. Do ordinary folks get rebates for petrol for lawnmowers or diesel for generators? No.

85% of the mining industry is foreign owned. We spend roughly as much on diesel rebates for foreigners as we spend on foreign aid.

We would be better off scrapping all of the fuel rebates and removing excise from alternative diesel fuels such as biodiesel and synthetics. Anyone who wants tax-free diesel for mining or farms can still do so under this plan, but would be growing new domestic industries and reducing our reliance on imports.

What a load of bollocks. They aren't using the end infrastructure. End of story. By all means lobby for it's removal. End result is it becomes a greater input cost and reduces profit and then company tax. Take your pick.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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lee

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #41 - May 13^th, 2016 at 6:08pm

Bam wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 2:38pm:

Which is a quite specious argument from the industry. Do ordinary folks get rebates for petrol for lawnmowers or diesel for generators? No.

Would ordinary folk like the hassle of working out how much rebate they got and add it back into taxable income? It is a timing issue, nothing more nothing less.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #42 - May 13^th, 2016 at 6:34pm

lee wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 6:08pm:

Bam wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 2:38pm:

Which is a quite specious argument from the industry. Do ordinary folks get rebates for petrol for lawnmowers or diesel for generators? No.

Would ordinary folk like the hassle of working out how much rebate they got and add it back into taxable income? It is a timing issue, nothing more nothing less.

Easy - fill a container - produce a card - no excise...... simple enough in a day and age where everything you ever were is on Big Brother..... can all be built into the till machines these days - no problem....

When I can fill out my tax online and the ATO pre-fills in every detail for me.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #43 - May 13^th, 2016 at 6:36pm

BigOl64 wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 1:55pm:

John Smith wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 1:44pm:

crocodile wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 1:32pm:

Miners build their own roads or the fuel is used in fixed plant. It isn't a subsidy it is a rebate because they don't make use of the infrastructure that the tax was supposed to be raised for.

really? I think that's a fallacy

I used to see hundreds of tucks full or coal or ore going up and down Pircton Rd and Mt Ousley Rd every day on their way to the Port Kembla steelworks ... miners didn't pay for those roads although the trucks certainly caused the most damage on them. Sire, miners might build the roads (or rail) around the mine, but the ports or refineries they ship to are usually a long way away from the mines

The miner will rail to a port before trucking it there you are talking millions of tonnes of product per year and as for the Port Kembla, I dare say it was the steelworks doing the trucking, not the miner.

In some case they may use public roads, but it will be 'normal' trucks doing the work and they also get tax concessions for fuel just like every other truckie in Aus.

Depends on whether or not the excise exempt (generic name producer) fills the trucks.... dun'it? I never got fuel excise privilege when I was operating commercially... though I got 'essential services' fuel when things were really bad....

Show me where truckies ordinaire get fuel excise exemption..... I've been out of the loop for a while.. but I thought they paid for excise at the pump like everyone else.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Bam

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Re: Why should the rich not get more tax cuts?
Reply #44 - May 13^th, 2016 at 6:46pm

crocodile wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 5:30pm:

Bam wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 2:38pm:

crocodile wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 1:32pm:

lee wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 12:12pm:

GordyL wrote on May 13^th, 2016 at 8:13am:

winding back fuel subsidies for mining.

You do know they are fuel tax credits, aka fuel rebates? That they are added into taxable income? They would have to be the only subsidies tax is paid on.

The fuel tax was added in the first place for roads funding. Miners build their own roads or the fuel is used in fixed plant. It isn't a subsidy it is a rebate because they don't make use of the infrastructure that the tax was supposed to be raised for.

Which is a quite specious argument from the industry. Do ordinary folks get rebates for petrol for lawnmowers or diesel for generators? No.

85% of the mining industry is foreign owned. We spend roughly as much on diesel rebates for foreigners as we spend on foreign aid.

We would be better off scrapping all of the fuel rebates and removing excise from alternative diesel fuels such as biodiesel and synthetics. Anyone who wants tax-free diesel for mining or farms can still do so under this plan, but would be growing new domestic industries and reducing our reliance on imports.

What a load of bollocks. They aren't using the end infrastructure. End of story. By all means lobby for it's removal. End result is it becomes a greater input cost and reduces profit and then company tax. Take your pick.

It is still a specious argument. It is also based on a lie - miners DO use the roads that everyone else pays for. How do you think those enormous mining trucks get to the mines?

If you want to have excise-free diesel for miners, you need to explain the following:
* Who pays for the roads and rails when miners use public infrastructure?
* Why do miners get publicly-funded private roads and rail even though they are not contributing excise?
* Why are we paying billions of dollars in subsidies to mining companies, 85% of which are foreign owned?

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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