You all know where I stand. I believe national sovereignty is a principle we have to preserve whatever forces are marshalled against it and whatever inducements are offered to abandon it.
And very great forces are in the field to bring it down indeed.

The EU is the battleground and the immediate engagement in the battle is Brexit. I can't imagine whatever possessed Cameron to offer battle when he never really had to, but he has and now it's a fight of immense importance. If Brexit can't be won the EU will march on towards ever greater centralisation of power in Brussels and an ever greater diminution of national and personal independence. If it can't be won the model will be in place for further nation blocks in the future and ultimately the cherished dream of the left for world government.

The desperation of the anti-Brexit side has been increasing in recent weeks and apparatchiks from every international organ have been wheeled out to frighten the Brits with warnings of dire consequences of voting to leave.
And well might they be desperate. The latest YouGov poll puts the Out side ahead. Even dragging the hapless Obama out to campaign has not swayed people. Nor the threats from the IMF or any other of those left dominated sinecures.
The poll also finds that the Brits now trust Nigel Farage more than Cameron on Europe.

And why shouldn't they? Didn't the west spend 50 years and a lot of its treasure to see that national sovereignty was restored in Eastern Europe? Why would they bother only to see it taken away again in another form?

How come it takes me several paragraphs to say something that you manage to say in one sentence.

[urlhttp://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32810887][/url]

wow Britain has had no say since it joined in 1973..

the Brits dont like what they see happening in Europe...and the mounting debts.. doesnt help...

obama wont be there though so he has no idea what will happen...

and I think the Pres of the USA more or less holding a gun to their heads..

will really piss off a lot of poms... so he maybe should have kept his opinion to himself..

Lookout, they're sending the reserves in.

Bill "shagger" Clinton and Tony "WMD" Blair are coming in from stage left to fight the good fight to stave off Brexit.

It's a free country . . . .except when you're answerable to Brussels.

According to the Guardian, David Cameron has now made conciliatory remarks about Trump.
He has said that Trump deserves respect for his success in the primary process and that he would be happy to meet him in the UK for a discussion.

I don't suppose this would have anything to do with a fear of Trump giving aid & comfort to Brexit supporters. With the current state of the polls, a dose of Trump rhetoric is the last thing  Cameron needs right now.

Desperation time for David Cameron, or should that be manic-depressive time.
Look at this for HYPERBOLE:

"British Prime Minister David Cameron has been mocked by Brexit campaigners after briefing the country’s media on a speech, to be delivered Monday, that insists if Britain leaves the European Union (EU), war may follow.

Mr. Cameron, speaking in London on Monday, is expected to say that Britain acts as a peacekeeper in Europe – and is one of the sole reasons the continent doesn’t go to war with itself.

He is also expected to invoke Sir Winston Churchill, the most respected Briton to have ever lived, in claiming that the war-winning prime minister would have disapproved of Brexit.

But Brexit campaigners have already pointed to Sir Winston’s statements, according to the Times, on Britain and a federal Europe (EU).

In May 1953, Sir Winston told the House of Commons: “We are not members of the European defence community, nor do we intend to be merged in a federal European system.”

(Breitbart London)

Ooooh, the bogeymen will come . . .

The British Broadcasting Corporation’s (BBC’s) coverage of issues surrounding the European Union (EU) and British membership of the EU shows significant bias in favour of a pro-EU, Remain stance, the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA) has found.

The BBC has an overwhelming monopoly on news consumption in the UK, with 48 percent of Brits getting their news from BBC 1 alone. Yet detailed analysis by the IEA has revealed clear examples of what researchers at the free-market think tank have termed “bias by omission” – that is, skewing public discourse on a topic by not giving air-time to one side of the debate. And they say that the BBC has shown this sort of bias in spades when it comes to debate around the EU.

They point to the Today Programme which invited over 4,200 guests on to talk about EU themes over a decade, just 3.2 percent of whom were identifiably in favour of withdrawing from the EU.

Similarly, in an episode of Newsnight which focused exclusively on the EU question, 18 guests were in favour of remaining in the EU while just one advocated leaving.

“Clearly, the future of the UK’s position in the EU divides political parties and also the business community,” said Ryan Bourne, the author of the report, which features in a new book advocating privatisation of the BBC.

“But in its selection of guests, perhaps driven by the state of the political landscape at the time, the Today programme has at least exhibited a clear relative bias by omission against a significant strand of opinion.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/10/report-bbc-displays-clear-significant...

bogarde73 wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 2:39pm:


Cameron's deceit has backfired on him.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time".   Abraham Lincoln

Rather appropriate.

Cameron seems to have stumbled in Brexit event:

Britain’s Prime Minister David Cameron crumbled in front of a live studio audience during a Sky News town hall-style event on Britain’s membership of the European Union.
Answering questions from Sky’s political editor Faisal Islam, as well as the live studio audience, the Prime Minister failed to answer multiple questions including on mass migration into Britain, Turkish membership of the European Union, and jobs.

Mr. Cameron’s key arguments for staying in the European Union – jobs, security, and the uncertainty of leaving the EU – were skewered on multiple occasions and Mr. Cameron was clearly rattled by the event.

Breitbart London sources have said that the Prime Minister’s team is already accusing the audience of being unfairly constituted.

Highlights of the event included Mr. Cameron failing to explain how he would bring down mass migration to the tens of thousands, per his election manifesto pledge, while at the same time claiming that such an act would crush the British economy.

Extraordinarily, the PM intimated that to bring down net migration, there needs to be more Britons leaving Britain, rather than reducing the number of migrants coming in.

But the most memorable moment of the night was when recent graduate Soraya Bouazzaoui asked about Turkey’s membership of the EU. She said: “They are under such heavy accusation by the entire Middle East for funding ISIS. How can you reassure us of staying in the EU and saying there are no risks, when there are clear risks? Especially when it comes to ISIS.”

And when Mr. Cameron failed to tackle the question, Ms. Bouazzaoui shouted at him: “You’re not answering the question.”

Mr. Cameron tried to intervene, to which she replied: “No, no, no, no, no. Let me finish now because I’ve seen you interrupt many people before hand. I’m an English literature student I know waffling when I see it, ok?”

The PM also ran into trouble when answering questions on jobs in the UK, with a single mother telling him that mass immigration was stopping her two children getting jobs. He floundered with nearly all audience questions, and was ridiculed for having previously intimated that World War Three would break out if Britain left the EU.

Political commentators and correspondents were nearly unanimous about the fact that Mr. Cameron took a battering tonight.

Tomorrow, Justice Secretary Michael Gove faces a similar grilling.
(Breitbart London)

Added poll.

This is very interesting to follow, but I have no idea myself!

2 weeks to go and I still don't know how I'm going to vote.
I have even less time too as I'm voting by post given I'll be in the US on polling day.

I'm inclined to back leaving to enable us to prevent the Eastern Europeans migrating in but same time economically we would get a shock.
I was only looking at our company numbers for the UK yesterday after May revenue closed and we are down 15% in May on prior year. That's mainly caused by economic climate uncertainty and latest polls showing we might leave.

In saying that I think I am leaning towards voting to leave.

bogarde73 wrote on Jun 5^th, 2016 at 8:51am:


Gove - when he's not trying to roll out an unworkable public education platform - is actually s very accomplished politician and speaker.
The Leave campaign knew what they were doing when they picked him.

On answering questions, Gove always lets you finish and he always looks like he's listening to you.
Even if he might think you're chatting a load of sh't.

You're right he came off far better.

Cameron didn't seem confident to me.
He couldn't answer the immigration question on curbing it to 100,000.
How you gonna curb it from 300,000 to 100,000 when 180,000 of them are EU citizens with a right to work here.
Your answer is bollocks Dave.

Bogarde!

You'll enjoy this.

Those in the UK wanting to reclaim their homeland from foreign dictatorship are now 10% ahead of those who want it to become just a province of Europe with no real political or economic power of its own.

The Germans seem to be weighing the sentiment in Britain very carefully.
An interview by Der Spiegel with Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble is worth reading in full.

Here is an extract:
Schäuble: That cannot be ruled out - it is conceivable theoretically. How, for example, would the Netherlands react, as a country that has traditionally had very close ties to Britain? It is important for the EU to send the message that it has understood the vote and is prepared to learn from it.

SPIEGEL: How, exactly?

Schäuble: In response to Brexit, we couldn't simply call for more integration. That would be crude, many would rightfully wonder whether we politicians still hadn't understood. Even in the event that only a small majority of the British voters reject a withdrawal, we would have to see it as a wakeup call and a warning not to continue with business as usual. Either way, we have to take a serious look at reducing bureaucracy in Europe. And in some areas, we also need to find our way back to the member states assuming more autonomy, as the British are demanding.

SPIEGEL: Greater autonomy instead of deeper integration: that would contradict everything you have fought for in Europe to date. Which areas do you have in mind?

Schäuble: Not at all. A strong Europe is not a bureaucratised Europe. More autonomy and adherence to mutually agreed-upon rules are precisely the foundation we need. We must strengthen the EU in those areas where it offers true added value relative to national approaches. Just look at foreign policy or defence. What can an individual country achieve in these areas? We need the British if Europe is to punch at its proper weight and have a significant voice in the world.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/spiegel-interview-with-wolfgang-schae...

bogarde73 wrote on Apr 28^th, 2016 at 6:34pm:




No doubt Innocent consistently came top of his class at precis at school.

bogarde73 wrote on Jun 1^st, 2016 at 2:39pm:


And every church and chapel.

The names of the Vichy British should be registered against a future Trial by the People.

Now they are trying to scare pensioners.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36509931

John Cleese has engaged in a Twitter storm, unloading on the EU:

Reflecting the views of potentially millions of formerly undecided British voters, Mr. Cleese tweeted: “If I thought there was an chance of major reform in the EU, I’d vote to stay in. But there isn’t”.

The tweet was inevitably followed by a torrent of support and abuse from Mr. Cleese’s nearly five and a half million Twitter followers.

Answering some points tweeted at him about the European Union, veteran comedian Mr. Cleese told followers about Britain’s lack of power to influence policy and legislation inside the European Union: “We were usually swimming against the tide ; and the EU bureaucracy took away any trace of democratic accountability”.

Mr. Cleese said the argument for leaving the European Union was about a lot more than just the money, which he called “the nub of the ‘Remain argument”, remarking that Britain had traded with the world for millennia without the EU. He also touched on mass migration, saying that while he wasn’t against migration itself but said it was worth “haggling over the numbers”, and that in his opinion “limiting immigration more effectively would reduce competition for work and protect jobs”.

As for what reforms the EU needed to survive, Mr. Cleese again mixed politics and humour, suggesting Europe do to with it’s Luxembourgian president Jean-Claude Juncker as the Italians did with Mussolini, as well as ditching the Europe currency which has dragged Greece to its knees and now threatens to do the same to France, as well as opening the bloc up to real accountability.

bogarde73 wrote on Jun 13^th, 2016 at 3:47pm:


It's interesting he left out his already stated disenchantment with London being swamped by immigrants who bear no resemblance to the 'parent culture' and people.

Here it is again, folks ...

Actor Sir Ian McKellar has laid out a stark truth.He said if you're LBGT it makes no sense to vote for Brexit because "if you're gay you're an internationalist".

Well what he's saying Herb, as if we didn't know, but he's reminding them, if you're gay you'll be left wing and if you're left wing you're internationalist by definition.

Its why we see so many actors and show v
biz celebrities urging a Remain vote.

Yep there are always exceptions. I'm an exception to everything.

The world's greatest humanitarian, Sir Robert Geldof, has demonstrated that it's OK to be angry about some things:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/15/sir-bob-geldof-vote-remain-if-youve-g...

Stay in EU - or else, threatens Soros
REUTERS — George Soros, the billionaire who earned fame by betting against the pound in 1992, said that a British vote on Thursday to leave the European Union would trigger a bigger and more disruptive sterling devaluation than the fall on Black Wednesday.
Soros used Quantum Fund in 1992 to bet successfully that sterling was overvalued against the Deutsche Mark, forcing then-Prime Minister John Major to pull the pound out of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM).

Soros, in an opinion piece in the Guardian newspaper, said that in the event of a British exit, or Brexit, the pound would fall by at least 15 percent, and possibly more than 20 percent, to below $1.15 from its current level of around $1.46.

“The value of the pound would decline precipitously. It would also have an immediate and dramatic impact on financial markets, investment, prices and jobs,” Soros, who is 85, said in the Guardian.

“I would expect this devaluation to be bigger and also more disruptive than the 15 percent devaluation that occurred in September 1992, when I was fortunate enough to make a substantial profit for my hedge fund investors.”

Soros, ranked as the world’s 23rd richest person by Forbes magazine with a fortune of $24.9 billion, said the Bank of England would not cut rates after a British exit and that there would be few monetary policy tools left to ease a recession or a fall in British house prices.

He also pointed to the “very large” current account deficit in the United Kingdom and said a post-Brexit devaluation would be unlikely to improve manufacturing as trading conditions would be too uncertain to undertake new investments or hire workers.

Hungarian-born Soros said the scale of the sterling devaluation would compare with 1967, when then-Prime Minister Harold Wilson devalued the pound to $2.40 from $2.80.

Speculators, Soros said, would be eager to exploit a Brexit situation to profit.

“Today, there are speculative forces in the markets much bigger and more powerful. And they will be eager to exploit any miscalculations by the British government or British voters,” Soros said.

“Brexit would make some people very rich – but most voters considerably poorer,” Soros said.

BREXIT WORRY

Members of Britain’s Leave campaign say some bankers, big companies and politicians are trying to scare British voters with overblown warnings about the financial and economic impact of a Brexit.

Justice Secretary Michael Gove, one of the leading members of the Vote Leave campaign, dismissed Soros’s warning, saying that the billionaire had advocated British membership of the euro zone.

“The truth is that economic forecasters like George Soros have got things wrong in the past. They were the people who argued that we should join the single currency, the single currency as you know has brought economic misery,” Gove told BBC radio.

Opponents of EU membership say Britain could prosper if it cut itself free from what they portray as a doomed German-dominated project in excessive debt-funded welfare spending.

The world’s biggest banks including Citi and Goldman Sachs will draft in senior traders to work through the night following Britain’s referendum on EU membership, set to be among the most volatile 24 hours for markets in a quarter of a century.

A vote to leave the European Union on June 23 would spook investors by undermining post-World War Two attempts at European integration and placing a question mark over the future of the United Kingdom and its $2.9 trillion economy.

Citi, Deutsche Bank, JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs, HSBC, Barclays, Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds are among those banks planning to have senior staff and traders working or on call in London as results start to dribble in after polls close at 2100 GMT, according to sources.

“British voters are now grossly underestimating the true costs of Brexit,” Soros said. “Too many believe that a vote to leave the EU will have no effect on their personal financial position. This is wishful thinking.”

issuevoter wrote on Jun 13^th, 2016 at 4:06pm:


Nigel Farage would be your man.

He was a professional money-man before he turned to politics.

This is one of the reasons why some of the Brexit supporters hoped that by withdrawing from the EU, the British leadership might grow some political balls and stop this sort of cowardly stupidity.

Quote:

"One in six British jihadis who have gone to Syria and Iraq to fight with ISIS have been killed - but 400 are back in the UK, it has been claimed".

Why have these dangerous fanatics been allowed back into the country, and why aren't they being deported when identified?

link

I do think the conspiracy will continue even at this stage and even with what I suspect are the phoney demands from the EU aristocrats for a quick departure.
The conspiracy will now focus on delaying the trigger of article 50 in the hope that it will all go away.