Australian Politics Forum - Acting Locally FOR the environment

Sprintcyclist

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Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment
Reply #60 - Apr 26^th, 2016 at 7:52am

Emma wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 12:33am:

Ajax wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 12:22am:

Do you suggest genocide for the human population so birds and crocodiles can rule the earth.

Wow...

no way do I endorse such ideas. But we are doing it aren't we, anyway.? All over the world, people are being killed by other people.
It doesn't keep up with the birth rate, being the exceptionally fecund creatures that we are, but we are also only seeing the start of the fight back by Mother.

If we are so dissolute as to destroy our own home, we can only expect a negative outcome. See..?

Do you not understand ??? the earth isn't OURS.

well, not genocide.
Some balance though.

Rid the globe of at least 1/3 the human population. It'ld solve most the problems we face.
Till the population builds again.

Leave the population as it is, we still have the multitude of problems.

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Ajax

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Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment
Reply #61 - Apr 26^th, 2016 at 8:33am

The Greens’ Agenda, in Their Own Words

Read the whole article here

https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2011/01-02/the-greens-agenda-in-their-own-words...

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.”[2] The Australian Greens are part of a worldwide movement that is actively engaged in the political process.[3] As their writings state, this objective involves a radical transformation of the culture that underpins Western civilization.

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In order to fully comprehend the Greens’ political ideology, it is necessary to understand the historical roots and foundations of both our own Western, liberal democratic culture—and that of the Greens. I propose to explain the Greens’ agenda, as set out in their own documents and writings.[4]

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The modern Greens party however had an earlier origin in the green bans applied by the Builders Labourers Federation in the 1970s in New South Wales.[24] Indeed the visit to Australia by the German activist Petra Kelly in 1977 was influential in the foundation of the German Greens.[25] The then leader of the BLF, Jack Mundey, was subsequently invited to conferences in Europe and North America. Mundey, a Communist Party official and candidate, who led the militant New South Wales Builders Labourers Federation, described himself as “an ecological Marxist”.[26] Speaking years after the Communist Party folded, and a New Left party failed to gain support beyond Trotskyist and anarchist groupings, Mundey prophesied that “in the future there is a possibility of … what I’d call a Green Red future of socialism”.[27] In addition to Marx and Engels, Mundey was influenced by the overpopulation jeremiad of Paul Ehrlich.[28]
These two strands of the Greens are evident today. What then is the Greens’ agenda

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The Greens operate out of a set of ideological principles and beliefs that extend beyond the warm, cuddly environmentalism they wrap themselves in.[29] While “environmentalism” lies at the core of the Greens’ ideology, their policies, if ever enacted, would radically change the economic and social culture of Australia.

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This has been true from the outset. In the 1970s, Jack Mundey’s BLF campaigned for a range of radical issues beyond the immediate industrial interests of the union.

He appealed beyond the blue-collar construction workers to the New Left alliance of what has become known as “doctors’ wives” and tertiary students and academics.[30]

John Black has analysed Green voters over a series of elections. In a recent report, he categorises Green voters.

[31] First, those who vote Green as their primary vote:
This is the Don’s Party group that used to be in the ALP in the sixties and seventies: young university students or graduates, frequently working or still studying in academia, no kids, often gay, arts and drama type degrees or architecture where they specialise is designing environmentally friendly suburbs, agnostic or atheist, often US or Canadian refugees from capitalism, but well paid in professional consulting or media jobs.[32]

These groups swung more heavily to the Greens in 2010:

They were led by arts, media or architectural graduate twenty-somethings, atheists and agnostics, Kiwis, the highly mobile university student groups, gays and the Green family group, which is a professional or admin consulting couple with one child attending expensive private schools.[33]

[/quote[ [quote]

Let me expand. According to the Greens’ ideology, human dignity is neither inherent nor absolute, but relative.[35] Humans are only one species amongst others. As Brown and Singer write: “We hold that the dominant ethic is indefensible because it focuses only on human beings and on human beings who are living now, leaving out the interests of others who are not of our species, or not of our generation.”[36] Elsewhere, they equate humans with animals:

The revolutionary element in Green ethics is its challenge to us to see ourselves in universal terms … I must take into account the interests of others, on the same footing as my own. This is true, whether these others are Victorians or Queenslanders, Australians or Rwandans, or even the nonhuman animals whose habitat is destroyed when a forest is destroyed.[37]

What is revolutionary about this statement is not that the interests of another should be considered in an ethical judgment. Judeo-Christian belief extols consideration of others, as does Kant’s Golden Rule. Burke wrote of society being a compact across generations. What is revolutionary is the equation of humans and animals.

Peter Singer expands these notions in his other works on animal liberation. He charges that humans are guilty of “speciesism”, that is, preferring their own species over all others. It leads him to argue in favour of infanticide and doctor-assisted suicide on one hand; and bestiality on the other, provided there is mutual consent![38]

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« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2016 at 8:54am by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Ajax

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Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment
Reply #62 - Apr 26^th, 2016 at 8:40am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 7:52am:

well, not genocide.
Some balance though.

Rid the globe of at least 1/3 the human population. It'ld solve most the problems we face.
Till the population builds again.

Leave the population as it is, we still have the multitude of problems.

Can you hear yourself FFS.......!!??

You greenies are indeed sick in the head....LOL

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment
Reply #63 - Apr 26^th, 2016 at 9:50am

Ajax wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 8:40am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 7:52am:

well, not genocide.
Some balance though.

Rid the globe of at least 1/3 the human population. It'ld solve most the problems we face.
Till the population builds again.

Leave the population as it is, we still have the multitude of problems.

Can you hear yourself FFS.......!!??

You greenies are indeed sick in the head....LOL

All the worlds problems come from overpopulation by humans.

pollution, loss of habitat for nonhumans, loss of freshwater supplies, loss of food supplies, using up the worlds resources, commuting chaos, wars, famines, global warming ...............

What have I missed?

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Ajax

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Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment
Reply #64 - Apr 26^th, 2016 at 10:36am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 9:50am:

All the worlds problems come from overpopulation by humans.

You've been brainwashed.

Quote:

pollution

We can do a great deal to clean up pollution, the problem is the oligarchy doesn't want to pay for it, its not enough they have seized all the cash cows from the developed countries and make billions, they don't want to foot the bill.

Instead they want to create a $2 trillion dollar carbon derivatives market to fleece nations even more and play their games on the stock exchange at our expense.

If anyone should be exterminated its these people that have amassed all the world's wealth and are still not happy, they want to control the whole world and makes us all puppets. So wake up because unless you're one of them then you're nothing more than a brainwashed puppet to them.

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loss of habitat for nonhumans

There is enough room for humans and animals alike, all we need is good management.

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loss of freshwater supplies

Fresh water has always been scarce, but technology can help us to produce more of the stuff without affecting nature, eg. desalination plants.

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loss of food supplies

The Earth can feed its people, what I'm worried about is why the big banks are buying up huge amounts of the food producing lands all over the world. Do you know why...???

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using up the worlds resources

Being the dominant species on this planet do you expect any less, how are we going to travel to other worlds if we stay in caves.

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commuting chaos, wars

Look up who is responsible for most wars in the modern era and then we can talk.

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famines

Go ask your prophets at the world bank why we still have poverty and famines, it can be wiped of the face of the earth.

If other intelligent beings come here, I'm sure they would look down on us, because we have the ability to lift all humans out of poverty but greed from a hand full of men who have amassed the wealth of the world will not allow it.

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global warming

Look into our history there is nothing unprecedented about the current warming its been happening since the Earth was formed.

And CO2 has never controlled temperature in the past even when we had 20 times the atmospheric CO2 we have today.

Today we have some of the lowest temperatures and atmospheric CO2 in our history.

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What have I missed?

Yes you have, how are you planning to eliminate 1/3 of the population, lets see.

Gas chambers

Mas graves

Poisoning

Sterilization

How will this be accomplished.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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lee

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Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment
Reply #65 - Apr 26^th, 2016 at 11:48am

Emma wrote on Apr 25^th, 2016 at 10:07pm:

Options have been closed off by successive previous govts, that is true.

Change cannot happen overnight that is also true.

BUT... we have to start somewhere. !

An extensive rail network would be my preferred option for most of Australia's freight. Trucks running on fossil fuels, public roads and impossible deadlines are NOT the way of the future.

What can one do.? SFA.

How far apart should these "extensive rail lines" be? 100km, 200 km? How do you transport goods to destinations between these "extensive rail lines". What power would run these "extensive rail lines"?

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« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2016 at 11:57am by lee »

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lee

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Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment
Reply #66 - Apr 26^th, 2016 at 11:55am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 9:50am:

All the worlds problems come from overpopulation by humans.

pollution, loss of habitat for nonhumans, loss of freshwater supplies, loss of food supplies, using up the worlds resources, commuting chaos, wars, famines, global warming ...............

What have I missed?

sprintcyclist is a devoted follower of Paul Ehrlich. The author of such books as "The Population Bomb". The one who said there would be mass starvations by 1970's and 80's. The bloke who hasn't been right yet.

So if the law of averages were to apply to him, he might get a prediction right soon. Wink

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Bobby.

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Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment
Reply #67 - Apr 26^th, 2016 at 6:26pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 7:50am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 12:09am:

Emma wrote on Apr 25^th, 2016 at 11:49pm:

But ... still in Melbourne yeah? Perhaps you are moving from your grimy inner-city one-bed apartment, on the fifth floor, to suburbia. Much land? Any native trees on it.?

Dear Jalane,
I live in a nice unit in the outer suburbs now.
It's not grimy - in fact - every day it gets cleaner & cleaner as I approach the time of sale.
I even cleaned & re-grouted many tiles today.
I'm rather a good handyman.
I deliberately chose a place with no trees for reasons that will not be explained here.

forgiven

namaste

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........... chose a place with no trees ..........

very good idea.
trees on a normal suburban bloch are unsuited.
Shrubs/grevilleas/bottlebrushes are ok.

Trees around a house - no.

Yes - after trees caused over $10,000 of concrete driveway damage where I live now
& even more building damage
it's certainly one of the reasons I don't want any large trees again.

People who grow large forest like trees near suburban houses are fools.

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Emma

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Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment
Reply #68 - Apr 29^th, 2016 at 1:44am

lee wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 11:55am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 26^th, 2016 at 9:50am:

All the worlds problems come from overpopulation by humans.

pollution, loss of habitat for nonhumans, loss of freshwater supplies, loss of food supplies, using up the worlds resources, commuting chaos, wars, famines, global warming ...............

What have I missed?

sprintcyclist is a devoted follower of Paul Ehrlich. The author of such books as "The Population Bomb".
The one who said there would be mass starvations by 1970's and 80's.
The bloke who hasn't been right yet.

So if the law of averages were to apply to him, he might get a prediction right soon. Wink

SORRY??? WHAT..??? I remember very well the mass starvation of whole countries and peoples in the 70's and 80's.

Places you've probably never even thought of, or know exists.

Places like
Biafra
Burundi
Eritrea
...ring a bell?? NO?

Just shows how ignorant you are.

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Emma

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Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment
Reply #69 - Apr 29^th, 2016 at 2:11am

and actually I agree... with the issue on trees in tiny suburbia. But some plants are definitely friendly. You remain stuck in your urban fear of nature.

Sad.. but don't claim kudos on environmental issues, as you obviously only have a very limited knowledge. You have very little understanding, and that is clear.

You and Ajax clearly exhibit the traits of the citybound brain. I do hope you gain some wisdom as you gain some real experience.

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lee

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Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment
Reply #70 - Apr 29^th, 2016 at 11:27am

Emma wrote on Apr 29^th, 2016 at 1:44am:

SORRY??? WHAT..??? I remember very well the mass starvation of whole countries and peoples in the 70's and 80's.

Places you've probably never even thought of, or know exists.

Places like
Biafra
Burundi
Eritrea

What Paul Ehrlich espoused was that the mass starvations would be from a global shortage of food. Not from local causes of drought, war etc.

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment Reply #71 - Apr 30^th, 2016 at 2:03am so now you're saying global starvation,? not peoples or countries. typical.. change the story to fit the facts. sad indeed.
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lee

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Re: Acting Locally FOR the environment
Reply #72 - Apr 30^th, 2016 at 12:20pm

Emma wrote on Apr 30^th, 2016 at 2:03am:

so now you're saying global starvation,? not peoples or countries. typical.. change the story to fit the facts. sad indeed.

Sorry. I thought you may have heard of Paul Ehrlich and his pronouncements. I didn't think it necessary to go into tiny detail.

The story hasn't changed, just the horizon has expanded.

Would you rather I changed the facts to fit the story?

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