Australian Politics Forum - Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates

greggerypeccary

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #150 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 12:11pm

Its time wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 12:02pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:51am:

Its time wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:36am:

This is a little off topic but i wonder if somebody has good knowledge of EBA and FWA regulations. This is not a hypothetical.

The facts are the company has approached its employees to take a pay cut because they're not turning a decent profit, but they're still turning a profit , options are offered but the employees refuse to take any cut.

The question is can an existing EBA be annulled through fair work commission and under what circumstances?

Current EBAs can be terminated, by mutual agreement (the employer can't make a unilateral decision to have it terminated - the employees get the chance to vote on the decision).

If an EBA has passed its nominal expiry date, the employer or any employee can apply to have it terminated.

In both cases, the termination has to be approved by the FWC.

Thanks.

https://www.fwc.gov.au/awards-and-agreements/agreements/terminate-agreement

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Dnarever

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #151 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 1:02pm

Carl D wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:16am:

Interesting comments about casuals.

I'm aware of at least one large company in the entertainment industry which no longer employs casuals - only full time and part time.

And, some of the now part time employees would work no more than 3 hours a week. Possibly even less (teenagers probably looking for a bit of extra spending money).

And, I'm pretty sure there's no "minimum 3 hours pay" even if they work less - if they work for one hour that's all they get paid.

Obviously, part time hourly rates are less than casual rates - especially for weekends and public holidays. The 3 hours or less a week employees would get annual leave being part time now but, if annual holidays are based on pro rata and they only work a few hours a week, it would take them years to accumulate enough leave to make it worthwhile.

Not sure how they manage to get away with this but I know they're always advertising for staff. No wonder.

Have a look at the relevant agreement, this looks to probably be dodgy. Part time shift should be minimum of 3 hrs for a start and the agreement needs to state how many hours will be rostered per week.

On the ARL point.

if annual holidays are based on pro rata and they only work a few hours a week

If they say work 10 hours a week then they only need to build up 10 hours to have a weeks ARL.

Pro rata means that ever year they should get 4 weeks of how even many hours they work per week.

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mariacostel

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #152 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:11pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:43pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:37pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:55am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:36am:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:37pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 7:43pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:12pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

A few hundred dollars of profit isn't worth opening for a few hours?

Wut? bugger I hate the very rich.

Oh well, the workers got to stay home and they got paid anyway.

Not if they were casual workers which is more than likely the case.

Yes, the permanent employees got paid to stay home and the casual workers got to have some well deserved time off.

The restaurant opened again the next day, and nobody lost their jobs.

There's nothing to see here.

The casual workers lost a days wages.

Yes, that's correct.

As they do on every other day that the restaurant closes throughout the year.

Casuals are never guaranteed work - ever.

Moreover, nobody lost their job and the restaurant continues to operate as normal.

There is absolutely nothing to see here.

Casual workers lost a days pay. Im sure you dont care. They are after all, only casuals.

No Casual workers are already compensated for this in their casual loadings. In the restaurant award casuals are compensated by 25% loading for every hour they work in compensation for things like this.

Yes, a good point.

This story is nothing more than a failed political stunt, no matter how you look at it.

Nobody lost their job, and life went on as normal.

Nothing to see here folks.

And the employees LOST a days wages. All because there was no profit in opening.

Complete and utter bullshit.

1. The permanent staff lost nothing - they were actually paid to stay home. They got the day off AND they were paid. That's how public holidays work.

2. The owner admitted himself that he would have made a $200 profit.

Overall, you've scored a "Fail".

Try again.

A whole $200??? Wow, A veritable Kings Ransom and less than the average daily wage. The permanent staff DID lose something. They would have been paid EXTRA to work on a public holiday. THAT is how public holidays work, ignoramus.

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Dnarever

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #153 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:20pm

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:11pm:

A whole $200??? Wow, A veritable Kings Ransom and less than the average daily wage. The permanent staff DID lose something. They would have been paid EXTRA to work on a public holiday. THAT is how public holidays work, ignoramus.

How much did they make on new years day ?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #154 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:25pm

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:11pm:

The permanent staff DID lose something.

No, they didn't.

The default position on Public Holidays is, you stay home from work and you get paid to do so.

Public Holidays are holidays. If they were work days they would be called Public Work Days.

The permanent staff at that restaurant stayed home, and they were paid to do so.

They gained an extra day off that week, and got the same pay as usual.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 150401 Gender:	Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates Reply #155 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:28pm mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:11pm: A whole $200??? Wow, A veritable Kings Ransom and less than the average daily wage. Own goal. If you work on a Public Holiday, you need to be paid more than $200. Thank you for strengthening the argument for penalty rates.
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mariacostel

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #156 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:52pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:11pm:

The permanent staff DID lose something.

No, they didn't.

The default position on Public Holidays is, you stay home from work and you get paid to do so.

Public Holidays are holidays. If they were work days they would be called Public Work Days.

The permanent staff at that restaurant stayed home, and they were paid to do so.

They gained an extra day off that week, and got the same pay as usual.

Your claim to be an IR advocate loses some credibility when you are apparently unaware that working on a public holiday entitles you to ADDITIONAL income on top of the normal day's pay. If this were not true, no permanent staff anywhere would ever work on a public holiday.

You are the same as Aussie - a fake.

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Dnarever

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #157 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:56pm

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:11pm:

The permanent staff DID lose something.

No, they didn't.

The default position on Public Holidays is, you stay home from work and you get paid to do so.

Public Holidays are holidays. If they were work days they would be called Public Work Days.

The permanent staff at that restaurant stayed home, and they were paid to do so.

They gained an extra day off that week, and got the same pay as usual.

Your claim to be an IR advocate loses some credibility when you are apparently unaware that working on a public holiday entitles you to ADDITIONAL income on top of the normal day's pay. If this were not true, no permanent staff anywhere would ever work on a public holiday.

You are the same as Aussie - a fake.

And now after all this time you are arguing in favour of penalty rates, who would have thunk ?

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mariacostel

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #158 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 4:01pm

Dnarever wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:56pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:11pm:

The permanent staff DID lose something.

No, they didn't.

The default position on Public Holidays is, you stay home from work and you get paid to do so.

Public Holidays are holidays. If they were work days they would be called Public Work Days.

The permanent staff at that restaurant stayed home, and they were paid to do so.

They gained an extra day off that week, and got the same pay as usual.

Your claim to be an IR advocate loses some credibility when you are apparently unaware that working on a public holiday entitles you to ADDITIONAL income on top of the normal day's pay. If this were not true, no permanent staff anywhere would ever work on a public holiday.

You are the same as Aussie - a fake.

And now after all this time you are arguing in favour of penalty rates, who would have thunk ?

It would take a special kind of simpleton to come to that conclusion from the above.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #159 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 4:05pm

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:11pm:

The permanent staff DID lose something.

No, they didn't.

The default position on Public Holidays is, you stay home from work and you get paid to do so.

Public Holidays are holidays. If they were work days they would be called Public Work Days.

The permanent staff at that restaurant stayed home, and they were paid to do so.

They gained an extra day off that week, and got the same pay as usual.

Your claim to be an IR advocate loses some credibility when you are apparently unaware that working on a public holiday entitles you to ADDITIONAL income on top of the normal day's pay. If this were not true, no permanent staff anywhere would ever work on a public holiday.

You are the same as Aussie - a fake.

The default position on Public Holidays is, you stay home from work and you get paid to do so.

Public Holidays are holidays. If they were work days they would be called Public Work Days.

The permanent staff at that restaurant stayed home, and they were paid to do so.

They gained an extra day off that week, and got the same pay as usual.

They didn't lose a thing, because working on a Public Holiday is not an automatic right: it is the exception rather than the rule.

Try to keep up, Longy.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #160 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 4:08pm

Dnarever wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:56pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:11pm:

The permanent staff DID lose something.

No, they didn't.

The default position on Public Holidays is, you stay home from work and you get paid to do so.

Public Holidays are holidays. If they were work days they would be called Public Work Days.

The permanent staff at that restaurant stayed home, and they were paid to do so.

They gained an extra day off that week, and got the same pay as usual.

Your claim to be an IR advocate loses some credibility when you are apparently unaware that working on a public holiday entitles you to ADDITIONAL income on top of the normal day's pay. If this were not true, no permanent staff anywhere would ever work on a public holiday.

You are the same as Aussie - a fake.

And now after all this time you are arguing in favour of penalty rates, who would have thunk ?

Indeed.

His own goal was magnificent.

"A whole $200??? Wow, A veritable Kings Ransom and less than the average daily wage."

That's right Longy: if you want people to work on Public Holidays they need to be paid more than normal.

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Dnarever

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #161 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 4:36pm

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 4:01pm:

Dnarever wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:56pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:11pm:

The permanent staff DID lose something.

No, they didn't.

The default position on Public Holidays is, you stay home from work and you get paid to do so.

Public Holidays are holidays. If they were work days they would be called Public Work Days.

The permanent staff at that restaurant stayed home, and they were paid to do so.

They gained an extra day off that week, and got the same pay as usual.

Your claim to be an IR advocate loses some credibility when you are apparently unaware that working on a public holiday entitles you to ADDITIONAL income on top of the normal day's pay. If this were not true, no permanent staff anywhere would ever work on a public holiday.

You are the same as Aussie - a fake.

And now after all this time you are arguing in favour of penalty rates, who would have thunk ?

It would take a special kind of simpleton to come to that conclusion from the above.

working on a public holiday entitles you to ADDITIONAL income on top of the normal day's pay. If this were not true, no permanent staff anywhere would ever work on a public holiday.

This additional income you talk about is a penalty rate, without penalty rates employees would get nothing for working public holidays. What you have said seems to very much support penalty rates ?

Man I knew your comprehension was poor but you don't even understand your own posts.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates Reply #162 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 4:39pm mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:52pm: entitles you to ADDITIONAL income you do realise that you are talking about the very penalty rates you are asking to be removed? right? It's really very simple, boss doesn't want to work on a public holiday for crap money, neither do the staff.
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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates Reply #163 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 5:29pm mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:11pm: A whole $200??? Wow, A veritable Kings Ransom and less than the average daily wage. Boy are you gullible. The employer claims that they would only be making $200 and you swallow it whole without even questioning it.
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mariacostel

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #164 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 5:31pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 4:05pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:25pm:

mariacostel wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 3:11pm:

The permanent staff DID lose something.

No, they didn't.

The default position on Public Holidays is, you stay home from work and you get paid to do so.

Public Holidays are holidays. If they were work days they would be called Public Work Days.

The permanent staff at that restaurant stayed home, and they were paid to do so.

They gained an extra day off that week, and got the same pay as usual.

Your claim to be an IR advocate loses some credibility when you are apparently unaware that working on a public holiday entitles you to ADDITIONAL income on top of the normal day's pay. If this were not true, no permanent staff anywhere would ever work on a public holiday.

You are the same as Aussie - a fake.

The default position on Public Holidays is, you stay home from work and you get paid to do so.

Public Holidays are holidays. If they were work days they would be called Public Work Days.

The permanent staff at that restaurant stayed home, and they were paid to do so.

They gained an extra day off that week, and got the same pay as usual.

They didn't lose a thing, because working on a Public Holiday is not an automatic right: it is the exception rather than the rule.

Try to keep up, Longy.

Thank you for explaining public holidays to us because I doubt there is a single person here who was unaware of the facts of how they work. Nicely missing the point of course, which is.... tada! They could have had an EXTRA days pay at holiday loading rates and they were denied that because of the decision not to open.

THEY LOST OUT on money.

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