Australian Politics Forum - Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates

mariacostel

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 7344
Sydney
Gender: female

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #135 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:37pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:55am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:36am:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:37pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 7:43pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:12pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

A few hundred dollars of profit isn't worth opening for a few hours?

Wut? bugger I hate the very rich.

Oh well, the workers got to stay home and they got paid anyway.

Not if they were casual workers which is more than likely the case.

Yes, the permanent employees got paid to stay home and the casual workers got to have some well deserved time off.

The restaurant opened again the next day, and nobody lost their jobs.

There's nothing to see here.

The casual workers lost a days wages.

Yes, that's correct.

As they do on every other day that the restaurant closes throughout the year.

Casuals are never guaranteed work - ever.

Moreover, nobody lost their job and the restaurant continues to operate as normal.

There is absolutely nothing to see here.

Casual workers lost a days pay. Im sure you dont care. They are after all, only casuals.

No Casual workers are already compensated for this in their casual loadings. In the restaurant award casuals are compensated by 25% loading for every hour they work in compensation for things like this.

Yes, a good point.

This story is nothing more than a failed political stunt, no matter how you look at it.

Nobody lost their job, and life went on as normal.

Nothing to see here folks.

And the employees LOST a days wages. All because there was no profit in opening. If you've ever gotten off your PS bum long enough to run a business then you would know why you dont feel like opening on a public holiday so your staff can earn $500 each while you break even at best.

Back to top

IP Logged

mariacostel

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 7344
Sydney
Gender: female

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #136 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:39pm

Kiron22 wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 1:18pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 10:32am:

stunspore wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:49am:

Again, why won't libs focus on what costs most small businesses - costs of premises and insurance?

You raise a very good point that is deserving of more attention.

Rents are obscene. Our commercial retail rents are about double what they are in the USA for equivalent premises. Some commercial rental agreements even allow the commercial landlord to take a percentage of the business's profits straight off the top. These are most common in large shopping centres. Banning these clauses would do more to help many businesses' bottom line than cutting penalty rates.

This won't be done though because the property lobby is too powerful.

If we want to lower the costs to business, we need to look at everything, and not just focus on the labour costs just because workers are relatively powerless.

The problem is, they want to make the worker powerless, the reason to get rid of penalty rates is more based in classic class warfare than anything to do with economics.

Destroy the ability of the worker to have choice and a decent income and you see workers become more desperate and out the window goes worker solidarity as workers actively try to screw eachother over in a game to be most sycophantic to the bosses. Penalty rates are just the beginning of a much longer plan to return workers to the 19th century.

This is the ultimate goal of Neoliberalism, to return to a highly romanticized version of the gilded era.

You sound like a veteran of 1917. and you are stil way out of touch, communist.

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 150401
Gender: male

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #137 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:43pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:37pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:55am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:36am:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:37pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 7:43pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:12pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

A few hundred dollars of profit isn't worth opening for a few hours?

Wut? bugger I hate the very rich.

Oh well, the workers got to stay home and they got paid anyway.

Not if they were casual workers which is more than likely the case.

Yes, the permanent employees got paid to stay home and the casual workers got to have some well deserved time off.

The restaurant opened again the next day, and nobody lost their jobs.

There's nothing to see here.

The casual workers lost a days wages.

Yes, that's correct.

As they do on every other day that the restaurant closes throughout the year.

Casuals are never guaranteed work - ever.

Moreover, nobody lost their job and the restaurant continues to operate as normal.

There is absolutely nothing to see here.

Casual workers lost a days pay. Im sure you dont care. They are after all, only casuals.

No Casual workers are already compensated for this in their casual loadings. In the restaurant award casuals are compensated by 25% loading for every hour they work in compensation for things like this.

Yes, a good point.

This story is nothing more than a failed political stunt, no matter how you look at it.

Nobody lost their job, and life went on as normal.

Nothing to see here folks.

And the employees LOST a days wages. All because there was no profit in opening.

Complete and utter bullshit.

1. The permanent staff lost nothing - they were actually paid to stay home. They got the day off AND they were paid. That's how public holidays work.

2. The owner admitted himself that he would have made a $200 profit.

Overall, you've scored a "Fail".

Try again.

Back to top

GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

IP Logged

Jovial Monk

Gold Member

Offline

Dogs not cats!

Posts: 51474
Gender: male

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #138 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:47pm

Kiron22 wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 1:18pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 10:32am:

stunspore wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:49am:

Again, why won't libs focus on what costs most small businesses - costs of premises and insurance?

You raise a very good point that is deserving of more attention.

Rents are obscene. Our commercial retail rents are about double what they are in the USA for equivalent premises. Some commercial rental agreements even allow the commercial landlord to take a percentage of the business's profits straight off the top. These are most common in large shopping centres. Banning these clauses would do more to help many businesses' bottom line than cutting penalty rates.

This won't be done though because the property lobby is too powerful.

If we want to lower the costs to business, we need to look at everything, and not just focus on the labour costs just because workers are relatively powerless.

The problem is, they want to make the worker powerless, the reason to get rid of penalty rates is more based in classic class warfare than anything to do with economics.

Destroy the ability of the worker to have choice and a decent income and you see workers become more desperate and out the window goes worker solidarity as workers actively try to screw eachother over in a game to be most sycophantic to the bosses. Penalty rates are just the beginning of a much longer plan to return workers to the 19th century.

This is the ultimate goal of Neoliberalism, to return to a highly romanticized version of the gilded era.

Yup, just look at WorkChoices.

Back to top

OzPolitic needs a >real< Environment MRB now!
OzPolitic needs a >real< Food MRB now!
OzPolitic needs a >real< Health MRB now!
OzPolitic needs a >real< Economics MRB now!

Topics in the right MRB!

IP Logged

ian

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 9451

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #139 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:50pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:36am:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:37pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 7:43pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:12pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

A few hundred dollars of profit isn't worth opening for a few hours?

Wut? bugger I hate the very rich.

Oh well, the workers got to stay home and they got paid anyway.

Not if they were casual workers which is more than likely the case.

Yes, the permanent employees got paid to stay home and the casual workers got to have some well deserved time off.

The restaurant opened again the next day, and nobody lost their jobs.

There's nothing to see here.

The casual workers lost a days wages.

Yes, that's correct.

As they do on every other day that the restaurant closes throughout the year.

Casuals are never guaranteed work - ever.

Moreover, nobody lost their job and the restaurant continues to operate as normal.

There is absolutely nothing to see here.

Casual workers lost a days pay. Im sure you dont care. They are after all, only casuals.

No: Casual workers are already compensated for this in their casual loadings. In the restaurant award casuals are compensated by 25% loading for every hour they work in compensation for things like this.

Lol, absolute nonsense. casual loadings compensate for lack of sick leave and holiday pay, not for unknown possible days off.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 89867 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates Reply #140 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:14pm Bustard owner/manager - anything to ensure his staff don't cop a decent living. Take 'im to the industrial tribunal for closing on a Sunday...
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates Reply #141 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:28pm The most telling part of the whole story I think is this line 'Even if we came out with a couple of hundred bucks (profit), what’s the point?” he said.' really Mr Rattenni? You don't want to work on a public holiday for just a few hundred bucks? well neither does your staff, you dipsh1t
Back to top	Our esteemed leader: I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus. IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 150401
Gender: male

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #142 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:30pm

John Smith wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:28pm:

The most telling part of the whole story I think is this line

'Even if we came out with a couple of hundred bucks (profit), what’s the point?” he said.'

really Mr Rattenni? You don't want to work on a public holiday for just a few hundred bucks?

well neither does your staff,
you dipsh1t

Another excellent, excellent point.

This story has been completely shot to pieces.

How can anyone seriously continue to support the abolition of penalty rates?

Back to top

GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 61264
Here
Gender: male

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #143 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 8:00pm

ian wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:50pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:36am:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:37pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 7:43pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:12pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

A few hundred dollars of profit isn't worth opening for a few hours?

Wut? bugger I hate the very rich.

Oh well, the workers got to stay home and they got paid anyway.

Not if they were casual workers which is more than likely the case.

Yes, the permanent employees got paid to stay home and the casual workers got to have some well deserved time off.

The restaurant opened again the next day, and nobody lost their jobs.

There's nothing to see here.

The casual workers lost a days wages.

Yes, that's correct.

As they do on every other day that the restaurant closes throughout the year.

Casuals are never guaranteed work - ever.

Moreover, nobody lost their job and the restaurant continues to operate as normal.

There is absolutely nothing to see here.

Casual workers lost a days pay. Im sure you dont care. They are after all, only casuals.

No: Casual workers are already compensated for this in their casual loadings. In the restaurant award casuals are compensated by 25% loading for every hour they work in compensation for things like this.

Lol, absolute nonsense. casual loadings compensate for lack of sick leave and holiday pay, not for unknown possible days off.

Casuals have no guarantee of work days or hours, nothing to say that any casuals would have been asked to work or if they even have any casuals on their books ?

In fact we don't know that this business has ever opened on a public holiday.

casual loadings compensate for lack of sick leave and holiday pay, not for unknown possible days off.

No: casual loading is compensation for all the things they don't get that other employees get. This includes day off on a PH pay. it also includes things like notice on dismissal and redundancy etc.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 31^st, 2016 at 8:19pm by Dnarever »

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 150401
Gender: male

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #144 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 9:35am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 8:00pm:

Casuals have no guarantee of work days or hours, nothing to say that any casuals would have been asked to work or if they even have any casuals on their books ?

In fact we don't know that this business has ever opened on a public holiday.

Correct.

This story is a failed political stunt from the Libs.

Back to top

GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

IP Logged

Carl D

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 10664
Rivervale, Perth
Gender: male

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #145 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:16am

Interesting comments about casuals.

I'm aware of at least one large company in the entertainment industry which no longer employs casuals - only full time and part time.

And, some of the now part time employees would work no more than 3 hours a week. Possibly even less (teenagers probably looking for a bit of extra spending money).

And, I'm pretty sure there's no "minimum 3 hours pay" even if they work less - if they work for one hour that's all they get paid.

Obviously, part time hourly rates are less than casual rates - especially for weekends and public holidays. The 3 hours or less a week employees would get annual leave being part time now but, if annual holidays are based on pro rata and they only work a few hours a week, it would take them years to accumulate enough leave to make it worthwhile.

Not sure how they manage to get away with this but I know they're always advertising for staff. No wonder.

Back to top

** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 150401
Gender: male

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #146 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:24am

Carl D wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:16am:

Interesting comments about casuals.

I'm aware of at least one large company in the entertainment industry which no longer employs casuals - only full time and part time.

And, some of the now part time employees would work no more than 3 hours a week. Possibly even less (teenagers probably looking for a bit of extra spending money).

And, I'm pretty sure there's no "minimum 3 hours pay" even if they work less - if they work for one hour that's all they get paid.

Obviously, part time hourly rates are less than casual rates - especially for weekends and public holidays. The 3 hours or less a week employees would get annual leave being part time now but, if annual holidays are based on pro rata and they only work a few hours a week, it would take them years to accumulate enough leave to make it worthwhile.

Not sure how they manage to get away with this but I know they're always advertising for staff. No wonder.

That sounds very dodgy.

Part-timers usually have a minimum of 9 hours per week (not always, though).

And, there's usually a 2 or 3 hour minimum shift (again, not always).

There are many employers out there at the moment treating part-time employees as casuals.

Not good.

Back to top

GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

IP Logged

Its time

Gold Member

Offline

Boot libs out

Posts: 25639
Gender: female

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #147 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:36am

This is a little off topic but i wonder if somebody has good knowledge of EBA and FWA regulations. This is not a hypothetical.

The facts are the company has approached its employees to take a pay cut because they're not turning a decent profit, but they're still turning a profit , options are offered but the employees refuse to take any cut.

The question is can an existing EBA be annulled through fair work commission and under what circumstances?

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 150401
Gender: male

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #148 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:51am

Its time wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:36am:

This is a little off topic but i wonder if somebody has good knowledge of EBA and FWA regulations. This is not a hypothetical.

The facts are the company has approached its employees to take a pay cut because they're not turning a decent profit, but they're still turning a profit , options are offered but the employees refuse to take any cut.

The question is can an existing EBA be annulled through fair work commission and under what circumstances?

Current EBAs can be terminated, by mutual agreement (the employer can't make a unilateral decision to have it terminated - the employees get the chance to vote on the decision).

If an EBA has passed its nominal expiry date, the employer or any employee can apply to have it terminated.

In both cases, the termination has to be approved by the FWC.

Back to top

GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

IP Logged

Its time

Gold Member

Offline

Boot libs out

Posts: 25639
Gender: female

Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #149 - Feb 1^st, 2016 at 12:02pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:51am:

Its time wrote on Feb 1^st, 2016 at 11:36am:

This is a little off topic but i wonder if somebody has good knowledge of EBA and FWA regulations. This is not a hypothetical.

The facts are the company has approached its employees to take a pay cut because they're not turning a decent profit, but they're still turning a profit , options are offered but the employees refuse to take any cut.

The question is can an existing EBA be annulled through fair work commission and under what circumstances?

Current EBAs can be terminated, by mutual agreement (the employer can't make a unilateral decision to have it terminated - the employees get the chance to vote on the decision).

If an EBA has passed its nominal expiry date, the employer or any employee can apply to have it terminated.

In both cases, the termination has to be approved by the FWC.

Thanks.

Back to top

IP Logged