Australian Politics Forum - Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates

Armchair_Politician

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #120 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:52am

stunspore wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:49am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:42am:

Quote:

Even if we came out with a couple of hundred bucks (profit), what’s the point?” he said. The point is the people that work these hours, should get paid the penalty rates. Sad

No one gets into running a business to barely scrape by. They get in to make money. Paying more than 200% extra in wages because of public holiday loading and other loadings takes a massive chunk out of a businesses bottom line. Only the most insane would willingly do that.

No one gets into business expecting free labour.

True, but paying around 225% on days like Australia is simply highway robbery.

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Dnarever

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #121 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:11am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:44am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 12:28pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 12:25pm:

bwood1946 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 12:18pm:

Quote:

Even if we came out with a couple of hundred bucks (profit), what’s the point?” he said. The point is the people that work these hours, should get paid the penalty rates. Sad

So he chose not to open,,his right!!

END OF STORY Wink

No, he's now bitching about his choice.

End of story would have been, made choice no news article complaining.

Exactly.

Yesterday, on the restaurant’s front window, was a message to patrons that said: “Parlamento will be closed on Australia Day due to public holiday costs. Kitchenhand/baristas/dishwashers/waiters all on $48 per hour minimum, plus 9% super — on top. Nb ... ‘not complaining. just explaining’. Happy Australia Day.”

What's wrong with “Parlamento will be closed on Australia Day” ?

Sounds like a cheap political stunt to me.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's a member of the Liberal Party.

Super goes up to 12% soon, if I recall.

No it should have already gone up but as usual the Liberals block all increases and then cry because they have to pay others a pension that they cant afford any more. Funny that they cry about having to pay the pension while they simultaneously block the solution.

Funny guys these Libs.

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« Last Edit: Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:23am by Dnarever »

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John Smith

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #122 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:16am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:52am:

stunspore wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:49am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:42am:

Quote:

Even if we came out with a couple of hundred bucks (profit), what’s the point?” he said. The point is the people that work these hours, should get paid the penalty rates. Sad

No one gets into running a business to barely scrape by. They get in to make money. Paying more than 200% extra in wages because of public holiday loading and other loadings takes a massive chunk out of a businesses bottom line. Only the most insane would willingly do that.

No one gets into business expecting free labour.

True, but paying around 225% on days like Australia is simply highway robbery.

being made to work for less on a public holiday is highway robbery. If you don't want to pay, don't open.

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stunspore

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #123 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:19am

Around the world, the idea of paying above normal rates on a holiday is the standard. The amount of loading does vary.

It might be more or less than other countries. We are as it is because we as a country put more value into what is a holiday and what it is worth to the Aussie lifestyle, culture and mental wellbeing.

Other countries such as America might have workers living off tips (and indeed their tax office calculates their income based on theoretically how much tips they get, not actual amount gained) and this is legal.

You calling our loading system "highway robbery" is wrong on that same note - you might personally disagree, but it isn't illegal.

If we leave it to "free market", then we put people who through desperation be working for less which leads to exploitation. Already we see evidence of this and in some cases, businesses exceed this with illegally low wages (e.g. 7-11, cleaning companies).

Going back to the 225% - I would be willing to put this to the vote. Let the libs put this as a major election promise and see if it gets through. Because if they aren't willing, they can see that majority of Australia puts holidays as that value.

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Dnarever

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #124 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:20am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:42am:

Quote:

Even if we came out with a couple of hundred bucks (profit), what’s the point?” he said. The point is the people that work these hours, should get paid the penalty rates. Sad

No one gets into running a business to barely scrape by. They get in to make money. Paying more than 200% extra in wages because of public holiday loading and other loadings takes a massive chunk out of a businesses bottom line. Only the most insane would willingly do that.

The establishment I was managed would do between 400% and 1000% additional turn over on a nice Public Holiday.

It was well worth the effort to open and to pay penalty rates.

If a PH is just another day in trading terms your business should not open and you should all have a day off.

If this business is going to make about $200 if opening then halve the GST rate would probably mean they would then make maybe $500 - $700 or so. The result is the same why would they bother opening on a public holiday.

There is no business case for this business to trade on a PH irrespective of penalty rates. The business I managed had an expectation of at least an additional $5,000 mostly double that above normal trading figures on a Public Holiday. Paying penalty rates was never questioned - it was great value.

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Dnarever

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #125 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:36am

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:37pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 7:43pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:12pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

A few hundred dollars of profit isn't worth opening for a few hours?

Wut? bugger I hate the very rich.

Oh well, the workers got to stay home and they got paid anyway.

Not if they were casual workers which is more than likely the case.

Yes, the permanent employees got paid to stay home and the casual workers got to have some well deserved time off.

The restaurant opened again the next day, and nobody lost their jobs.

There's nothing to see here.

The casual workers lost a days wages.

Yes, that's correct.

As they do on every other day that the restaurant closes throughout the year.

Casuals are never guaranteed work - ever.

Moreover, nobody lost their job and the restaurant continues to operate as normal.

There is absolutely nothing to see here.

Casual workers lost a days pay. Im sure you dont care. They are after all, only casuals.

No: Casual workers are already compensated for this in their casual loadings. In the restaurant award casuals are compensated by 25% loading for every hour they work in compensation for things like this.

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« Last Edit: Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:59am by Dnarever »

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Labor voter Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 302 Gender:	Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates Reply #126 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:54am Two can play this game. Open the restaurant and all the permanent staff rings up and take the day off, only have casual staff working. Permanent can't be force to work public holidays. It would cost more money in pay just to have casual workers working public holidays.
Back to top	Opinions are like arseholes everyone got one. It doesn't mean that your opinion or my opinion is right See my post in the welcome thread reply #575 and you will know what I am like IP Logged

greggerypeccary

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #127 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:55am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:36am:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:45pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 8:37pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 7:43pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:12pm:

ian wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 3:16pm:

Kiron22 wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 2:36pm:

A few hundred dollars of profit isn't worth opening for a few hours?

Wut? bugger I hate the very rich.

Oh well, the workers got to stay home and they got paid anyway.

Not if they were casual workers which is more than likely the case.

Yes, the permanent employees got paid to stay home and the casual workers got to have some well deserved time off.

The restaurant opened again the next day, and nobody lost their jobs.

There's nothing to see here.

The casual workers lost a days wages.

Yes, that's correct.

As they do on every other day that the restaurant closes throughout the year.

Casuals are never guaranteed work - ever.

Moreover, nobody lost their job and the restaurant continues to operate as normal.

There is absolutely nothing to see here.

Casual workers lost a days pay. Im sure you dont care. They are after all, only casuals.

No Casual workers are already compensated for this in their casual loadings. In the restaurant award casuals are compensated by 25% loading for every hour they work in compensation for things like this.

Yes, a good point.

This story is nothing more than a failed political stunt, no matter how you look at it.

Nobody lost their job, and life went on as normal.

Nothing to see here folks.

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John Smith

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #128 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:58am

Labor voter wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:54am:

Open the restaurant and all the permanent staff rings up and take the day off, only have casual staff working.

it wouldn't work ... try it and the permanent staff will eventually find they have no jobs as bosses replace them with staff that are more easily manipulated.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Bam

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #129 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 10:23am

stunspore wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:19am:

Going back to the 225% - I would be willing to put this to the vote. Let the libs put this as a major election promise and see if it gets through. Because if they aren't willing, they can see that majority of Australia puts holidays as that value.

If it's that important, put it to a plebiscite.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #130 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 10:32am

stunspore wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:49am:

Again, why won't libs focus on what costs most small businesses - costs of premises and insurance?

You raise a very good point that is deserving of more attention.

Rents are obscene. Our commercial retail rents are about double what they are in the USA for equivalent premises. Some commercial rental agreements even allow the commercial landlord to take a percentage of the business's profits straight off the top. These are most common in large shopping centres. Banning these clauses would do more to help many businesses' bottom line than cutting penalty rates.

This won't be done though because the property lobby is too powerful.

If we want to lower the costs to business, we need to look at everything, and not just focus on the labour costs just because workers are relatively powerless.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Its time

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #131 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 10:46am

Dnarever wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:11am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:44am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 12:28pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 12:25pm:

bwood1946 wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 12:18pm:

Quote:

Even if we came out with a couple of hundred bucks (profit), what’s the point?” he said. The point is the people that work these hours, should get paid the penalty rates. Sad

So he chose not to open,,his right!!

END OF STORY Wink

No, he's now bitching about his choice.

End of story would have been, made choice no news article complaining.

Exactly.

Yesterday, on the restaurant’s front window, was a message to patrons that said: “Parlamento will be closed on Australia Day due to public holiday costs. Kitchenhand/baristas/dishwashers/waiters all on $48 per hour minimum, plus 9% super — on top. Nb ... ‘not complaining. just explaining’. Happy Australia Day.”

What's wrong with “Parlamento will be closed on Australia Day” ?

Sounds like a cheap political stunt to me.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's a member of the Liberal Party.

Super goes up to 12% soon, if I recall.

No it should have already gone up but as usual the Liberals block all increases and then cry because they have to pay others a pension that they cant afford any more. Funny that they cry about having to pay the pension while they simultaneously block the solution.

Funny guys these Libs.

Nailed it

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Its time

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #132 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 10:50am

Bam wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 10:23am:

stunspore wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 7:19am:

Going back to the 225% - I would be willing to put this to the vote. Let the libs put this as a major election promise and see if it gets through. Because if they aren't willing, they can see that majority of Australia puts holidays as that value.

If it's that important, put it to a plebiscite.

That's for weak governments, we want our "leaders" to make some decisions with conviction, enough of the stalking horse , it's been flogged beyond recognition. Make some decisions or step aside for a party that can.

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Kiron22

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #133 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 1:18pm

Bam wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 10:32am:

stunspore wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:49am:

Again, why won't libs focus on what costs most small businesses - costs of premises and insurance?

You raise a very good point that is deserving of more attention.

Rents are obscene. Our commercial retail rents are about double what they are in the USA for equivalent premises. Some commercial rental agreements even allow the commercial landlord to take a percentage of the business's profits straight off the top. These are most common in large shopping centres. Banning these clauses would do more to help many businesses' bottom line than cutting penalty rates.

This won't be done though because the property lobby is too powerful.

If we want to lower the costs to business, we need to look at everything, and not just focus on the labour costs just because workers are relatively powerless.

The problem is, they want to make the worker powerless, the reason to get rid of penalty rates is more based in classic class warfare than anything to do with economics.

Destroy the ability of the worker to have choice and a decent income and you see workers become more desperate and out the window goes worker solidarity as workers actively try to screw eachother over in a game to be most sycophantic to the bosses. Penalty rates are just the beginning of a much longer plan to return workers to the 19th century.

This is the ultimate goal of Neoliberalism, to return to a highly romanticized version of the gilded era.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Restaurant Closes To Avoid Penalty Rates
Reply #134 - Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:32pm

Kiron22 wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 1:18pm:

Bam wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 10:32am:

stunspore wrote on Jan 31^st, 2016 at 6:49am:

Again, why won't libs focus on what costs most small businesses - costs of premises and insurance?

You raise a very good point that is deserving of more attention.

Rents are obscene. Our commercial retail rents are about double what they are in the USA for equivalent premises. Some commercial rental agreements even allow the commercial landlord to take a percentage of the business's profits straight off the top. These are most common in large shopping centres. Banning these clauses would do more to help many businesses' bottom line than cutting penalty rates.

This won't be done though because the property lobby is too powerful.

If we want to lower the costs to business, we need to look at everything, and not just focus on the labour costs just because workers are relatively powerless.

The problem is, they want to make the worker powerless, the reason to get rid of penalty rates is more based in classic class warfare than anything to do with economics.

Destroy the ability of the worker to have choice and a decent income and you see workers become more desperate and out the window goes worker solidarity as workers actively try to screw eachother over in a game to be most sycophantic to the bosses. Penalty rates are just the beginning of a much longer plan to return workers to the 19th century.

This is the ultimate goal of Neoliberalism, to return to a highly romanticized version of the gilded era.

An excellent, 100% accurate, post.

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