Australian Politics Forum - Gagging Labor's Membership On GST

mariacostel

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Re: Gagging Labor's Membership On GST
Reply #60 - Jan 29^th, 2016 at 6:52pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 6:41pm:

mariacostel wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 6:37pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 6:23pm:

We've been over that a zillion times and I'm not coming into the obvious comparison with Abbot.

I simply ask this. Is it better to break a promise three, or four days after an election? What is the time lapse at which it is acceptable, melielongtime?

THREE DAYS makes it rather obvious that the original promise was bogus - a lie if you will. It was a promise made with zero intention of being fulfilled. Two years down the track you can make all kind of explanations eg changed circumstances, but what changes over a weekend to cause a major policy breach? NOTHING.

Gillard lied and it destroyed her government.

You are kidding me. Perhaps you ought re-think that.

You are going to excuse the Carbon Tax promise breach. Do your best. I've heard them all before.

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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39696 Gender:	Re: Gagging Labor's Membership On GST Reply #61 - Jan 29^th, 2016 at 7:18pm Nah. You asked what changed over a weekend. I recommended you re-think that so you can answer your own question about the outcome of the relevant election. Let us know when you've done that.
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Dnarever

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Re: Gagging Labor's Membership On GST
Reply #62 - Jan 29^th, 2016 at 8:34pm

lee wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Well perhaps you like better MRRT1 and MRRT2?

Then of course the about turn on asylum seekers - East Timor and Malaysia Solutions.

Different policies from different leaders.

Everyone has been a disgrace on asylum seeker policy however in terms of the point you put I see no point in it at all.

After Malaysia was blocked they negotiated east Timor ? The change didn't relate to different leaders it related to one option not being available and setting another equally disgraceful policy instead.

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« Last Edit: Jan 29^th, 2016 at 8:43pm by Dnarever »

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Dnarever

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Re: Gagging Labor's Membership On GST
Reply #63 - Jan 29^th, 2016 at 8:41pm

mariacostel wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 6:17pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 11:19am:

lee wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 10:56am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 9:33am:

The Liberals 2013 election commitment was that there would not be.

Will the 2016 liberal election commitment be the same?

Are you saying politicians should never change their minds?

How about KRudd's "root and branch" Henry Tax Review? Oh, don't look at GST, it is merely a twig on the branch?

Are you saying politicians should never change their minds?

There is a significant difference between a change of mind and the expedient change of what they say.

The Liberals didn't change their mind they lied in order to improve their election chances, had they changed their mind it would have taken longer than a few days or weeks following the election.

When Abbott committed to not changing the GST and was asked if it referred to this term he kept repeating no change to the GST.

Abbott had committed to not changing the GST for more than 1 term in the leaders debate.

How exactly to you say that with a straight face after the EXPEDIENT Gillard carbon tax promise breach - and not years after the election but THREE DAYS.

I'm sure we spent 3 years disagreeing about the fixed carbon price no point in derailing this topic on increasing the GST over it.

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lee

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Re: Gagging Labor's Membership On GST
Reply #64 - Jan 29^th, 2016 at 10:09pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 8:34pm:

lee wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Well perhaps you like better MRRT1 and MRRT2?

Then of course the about turn on asylum seekers - East Timor and Malaysia Solutions.

Different policies from different leaders.

Everyone has been a disgrace on asylum seeker policy however in terms of the point you put I see no point in it at all.

After Malaysia was blocked they negotiated east Timor ? The change didn't relate to different leaders it related to one option not being available and setting another equally disgraceful policy instead.

Oh, oh but that's different. Grin

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Dnarever

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Re: Gagging Labor's Membership On GST
Reply #65 - Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:52am

lee wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 10:09pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 8:34pm:

lee wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 5:52pm:

Well perhaps you like better MRRT1 and MRRT2?

Then of course the about turn on asylum seekers - East Timor and Malaysia Solutions.

Different policies from different leaders.

Everyone has been a disgrace on asylum seeker policy however in terms of the point you put I see no point in it at all.

After Malaysia was blocked they negotiated east Timor ? The change didn't relate to different leaders it related to one option not being available and setting another equally disgraceful policy instead.

Oh, oh but that's different. Grin

Yes but only because it really is very different as in no similarities at all or not the same thing.

It came from a forced change and not a desired change or a lie that was really no change at all.

i.e. Malaysia was eventually ruled out when it was blocked by the courts.

The Liberals started pushing for a GST increase because it had always been their preferred option they just didn't know how to get away with it so they lied in the election campaign.

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lee

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Re: Gagging Labor's Membership On GST
Reply #66 - Jan 30^th, 2016 at 3:41pm

Dnarever wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:52am:

Yes but only because it really is very different as in no similarities at all or not the same thing.

It came from a forced change and not a desired change or a lie that was really no change at all.

i.e. Malaysia was eventually ruled out when it was blocked by the courts.

The Liberals started pushing for a GST increase because it had always been their preferred option they just didn't know how to get away with it so they lied in the election campaign.

Neither the Timor or Malaysian solution were part of KRudd. So the Timor solution was a desired change, although Timor said No. That in turn forced the attempted Malysian Solution.

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Dnarever

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Re: Gagging Labor's Membership On GST
Reply #67 - Jan 30^th, 2016 at 6:14pm

lee wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 3:41pm:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 30^th, 2016 at 5:52am:

Yes but only because it really is very different as in no similarities at all or not the same thing.

It came from a forced change and not a desired change or a lie that was really no change at all.

i.e. Malaysia was eventually ruled out when it was blocked by the courts.

The Liberals started pushing for a GST increase because it had always been their preferred option they just didn't know how to get away with it so they lied in the election campaign.

Neither the Timor or Malaysian solution were part of KRudd. So the Timor solution was a desired change, although Timor said No. That in turn forced the attempted Malysian Solution.

I was thinking you meant PNG - anyway still no difference, it is still very much not the same thing, throw all three in if you like no difference.

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mariacostel

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Re: Gagging Labor's Membership On GST
Reply #68 - Jan 30^th, 2016 at 7:38pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 29^th, 2016 at 7:18pm:

Nah. You asked what changed over a weekend. I recommended you re-think that so you can answer your own question about the outcome of the relevant election. Let us know when you've done that.

Sounds like you are working your way up to an excuse for breaking a significant election promise virtually right after polls closed.

I look forward to your logic on that matter and trust you might discuss ethics and integrity while you are at it.

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