Australian Politics Forum - US Muslims to do more.

Bobby.

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Re: US Muslims to do more.
Reply #45 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:59am

Lafayette wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 9:38am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 9:24am:

Is a version of Islam I reject, obviously. Who do you think is more useful in bringing an end to Islamic terrorism FD - the muslim who campaigns for a peaceful Islam and denounces violence in its name - or the muslim who adheres to the "hateful warmongering" version? For some reason you insist on this double act of criticising the violent nature of Islam *AND* mocking the muslims who want to stop it.

Don't forget criticizing Muslims for not doing enough to stop it.

Nothing will ever be good enough.

It's the responsibility of all Muslims to report anything suspicious to the authorities.

Anything less and the person should be charged with being a
collaborator in crime - for being a traitor to our nation.

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Lafayette

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Re: US Muslims to do more.
Reply #46 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:04am

Bobby. wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

It's the responsibility of all Muslims to report anything suspicious to the authorities.

Anything less and the person should be charged with being a
collaborator in crime - for being a traitor to our nation.

The only way that the Australian and US Governments have been able to stop terrorist attacks before they take place has been through the Muslim community assisting them. That's why making the Muslim community adversaries rather than partners is counter productive.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: US Muslims to do more. Reply #47 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:05am Muslims reported Man Horan Monis to the police over 10 years ago. The police did nothing.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

the good ole boys Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 658 Gender:	Re: US Muslims to do more. Reply #48 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:06am polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:05am: Muslims reported Man Horan Monis to the police over 10 years ago. The police did nothing. what about?
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Bobby.

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Re: US Muslims to do more.
Reply #49 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:07am

Lafayette wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:04am:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

It's the responsibility of all Muslims to report anything suspicious to the authorities.

Anything less and the person should be charged with being a
collaborator in crime - for being a traitor to our nation.

The only way that the Australian and US Governments have been able to stop terrorist attacks before they take place has been through the Muslim community assisting them. That's why making the Muslim community adversaries rather than partners is counter productive.

Yes - we need the help of the Muslim community to crush their radicals.

However - we should go a step further & make it mandatory to report suspicious activities.

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freediver

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Re: US Muslims to do more.
Reply #50 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:10am

Was this the same Muslims who want cameras in mosques?

Lafayette wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 9:55am:

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 9:38am:

So the terrorists were created by our interference in the middle east (and have nothing to do with Islam), and the solution is to interfere in the middle east?

Islam is primarily used by terrorist organizations to encourage and motivate their flocks to have no fear against a bigger and more technologically advanced army. However, the justifications used to commit terrorism are not based on Islam so much are they are based on political grievances with the West and the perceived wrongs that they feel have been committed against them by the West.

That is not as much the case with ISIL, where they have began to use Islam itself as the justification to fight against the West with the intention to impose a global caliphate on the world. This is very different than Al Qaeda and other organizations.

Though their justification for attacking civilians comes from their perception that the West is killing civilians in the swath of land that they essentially control.

Is that a yes? How should we interfere?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:14am:

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 9:35am:

Quote:

Is a version of Islam I reject, obviously. Who do you think is more useful in bringing an end to Islamic terrorism FD - the muslim who campaigns for a peaceful Islam and denounces violence in its name - or the muslim who adheres to the "hateful warmongering" version? For some reason you insist on this double act of criticising the violent nature of Islam *AND* mocking the muslims who want to stop it.

False dichotomy.

The question is not a false dichotomy - I'd be interested in your answer.

Also you do criticise the violent nature of Islam and mock muslims who want to stop it. Not sure where the false dichotomy comes into it.

Sorry I assumed it was rhetorical. Do you want to know whether terrorists or anti-terrorists are more useful in fighting terrorism?

Quote:

This is why I love the US, because protections were put in place by the Founding Fathers to prevent this whereas Australia doesn't have those protections.

Like the right to bear arms? How's that working out for you?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Re: US Muslims to do more.
Reply #51 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:15am

Bobby. wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:07am:

Lafayette wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:04am:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

It's the responsibility of all Muslims to report anything suspicious to the authorities.

Anything less and the person should be charged with being a
collaborator in crime - for being a traitor to our nation.

The only way that the Australian and US Governments have been able to stop terrorist attacks before they take place has been through the Muslim community assisting them. That's why making the Muslim community adversaries rather than partners is counter productive.

Yes - we need the help of the Muslim community to crush their radicals.

However - we should go a step further & make it mandatory to report suspicious activities.

No, having an "authentic" Arab serving our factory-made kebabs is not worth the cost of living in a police state.

Moslem communities in western nations don't just spontaneously arise through an unstoppable force of nature - we create them with our own hand. We don't need a "partnership" with our Muslim communities, we need to stop making them to begin with.

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In the fullness of time...

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Bobby.

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Re: US Muslims to do more.
Reply #52 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:17am

... wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:15am:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:07am:

Lafayette wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:04am:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

It's the responsibility of all Muslims to report anything suspicious to the authorities.

Anything less and the person should be charged with being a
collaborator in crime - for being a traitor to our nation.

The only way that the Australian and US Governments have been able to stop terrorist attacks before they take place has been through the Muslim community assisting them. That's why making the Muslim community adversaries rather than partners is counter productive.

Yes - we need the help of the Muslim community to crush their radicals.

However - we should go a step further & make it mandatory to report suspicious activities.

No, having an "authentic" Arab serving our factory-made kebabs is not worth the cost of living in a police state.

Moslem communities in western nations don't just spontaneously arise through an unstoppable force of nature - we create them with our own hand. We don't need a "partnership" with our Muslim communities, we need to stop making them to begin with.

You don't agree with sir Bobby's new law?

Look - they're here now - it's too late -

all we can do is make new laws.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: US Muslims to do more.
Reply #53 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:20am

Quote:

Monis, who had no connection with Arkana College, sent about a dozen faxed messages to Karolia objecting to the school's ties with Mount Sinai College. He also condemned Karolia as a "traitor and sell-out" to Islam for organising an inter-faith Anzac Day ceremony for his students. Karolia complained to the federal police when the messages turned threatening, but he heard nothing more of Monis until the carnage at the Lindt cafe.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/good-weekend/the-controversies-raging-inside-our-islamic-schools-20151012-gk790z.html#ixzz3vCH0Hfh6
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: US Muslims to do more.
Reply #54 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:23am

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:10am:

Do you want to know whether terrorists or anti-terrorists are more useful in fighting terrorism?

Absolutely.

Or, to put it a slightly different way, do you think its worthwhile encouraging muslims who preach anti-terrorism in the interests of fighting terrorism - rather than constantly mock them and attempt to de-legitimise them?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Lafayette

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Re: US Muslims to do more.
Reply #55 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:28am

Bobby. wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:07am:

Yes - we need the help of the Muslim community to crush their radicals.

However - we should go a step further & make it mandatory to report suspicious activities.

Mandatory reporting is unenforceable and will simply be a means of punishing a group of people for the actions of terrorists.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 52415 At my desk.	Re: US Muslims to do more. Reply #56 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:28am I think the hand holding strategy is probably more effective in the short term, but may undermine efforts in the long term. Long term, we need to address the underlying issues. This problem won't go away overnight just by being nice to Muslims.
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Bobby.

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Re: US Muslims to do more.
Reply #57 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:31am

Lafayette wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:28am:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:07am:

Yes - we need the help of the Muslim community to crush their radicals.

However - we should go a step further & make it mandatory to report suspicious activities.

Mandatory reporting is unenforceable and will simply be a means of punishing a group of people for the actions of terrorists.

No - it would work as the whole family not just the one radical member would be up on charges -

that would make a huge dent in their plans.

That's how the Israelis deal with them -

they bulldoze the whole family home down if one member is a terrorist.

Ask the Jews - it works!

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Lafayette

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Re: US Muslims to do more.
Reply #58 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:36am

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:10am:

Is that a yes? How should we interfere?

We should interfere in whatever is in our interests to interfere in. But we shouldn't then lie about the consequences of our interference and say that our interference was not a contributing factor to the terrorism that we then get attacked with.

To do so would be dishonest and would only lead us into more problems. Taking ownership of our actions is the only way to properly protect ourselves. That doesn't mean that we will have to stop our interference, but it will give us a better opportunity to assess where threats are coming from and protect ourselves agains them. It will also provide us with a measure to see whether our policy is worth the blowback.

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:10am:

Like the right to bear arms? How's that working out for you?

Very well. next to me I have an AKM, a Beretta 1301 Tactical and a Glock 19. All are fully loaded and ready to rock and roll

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Lafayette

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Re: US Muslims to do more.
Reply #59 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:37am

freediver wrote on Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:28am:

I think the hand holding strategy is probably more effective in the short term, but may undermine efforts in the long term.

Long term, we need to address the underlying issues.

This problem won't go away overnight just by being nice to Muslims.

I completely agree with you FD. Obviously if there are issues in the community they need to be addressed, but we need to make sure that we are not exacerbating them with our actions.

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