Australian Politics Forum - Some very brave and decent Muslims ...

Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Some very brave and decent Muslims ... Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 9:03am No comment necessary. link
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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20343 Gender:	Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ... Reply #1 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 9:11am They were good in spite of Islam not because of Islam. quran.com/5/51
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ...
Reply #2 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 9:57am

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 9:11am:

quran.com/5/51

the key word used in 5:51 is أولياء ('Awlya') the plural of 'wali'- which is more closely translated as "protector" or "guardian", not allies or friends. And if you look at the actual context of the verse, it is talking about religious guidance, not political relations or alliances:

Quote:

And We have revealed to you, [O Muúammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth.

- 5:48

and...

Quote:

And judge, [O Muúammad], between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has revealed to you.

- 5:49

Clearly the narrative here is about warning muslims not to be guided in their religious beliefs by what the christians and jews believe. A pretty logical command given the christian and jewish rejection of core Islamic tenets. *NOT* some bs about making it compulsory to shoot up a bunch of Christians in a bus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wali

Quote:

Walī (Arabic: ولي‎, plural ʾawliyāʾ أولياء), is an Arabic word meaning "custodian", "protector", "helper", etc

...the most common meaning of the word is that of a Muslim saint or holy person.

- in that context, the verse could be translated as "do not take jews or christians as your saint or holy persons"

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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wally1 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2055 Gender:	Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ... Reply #3 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:28am Cool story, does anyone see bullet holes in the bus or broken windows?
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ...
Reply #4 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:33am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 9:57am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 9:11am:

quran.com/5/51

the key word used in 5:51 is أولياء ('Awlya') the plural of 'wali'- which is more closely translated as "protector" or "guardian", not allies or friends. And if you look at the actual context of the verse, it is talking about religious guidance, not political relations or alliances:

Muhsin Khan, Yusef Ali and Shakir all say friends in their translation, are you saying these 3 are wrong with their translation?

Pickthall calls them allies.

quran.com/5/51

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ...
Reply #5 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:40am

I know what ولي means Baron - paste it into google translate if you don't believe me.

Is this really the "proof" you are going to use to argue that shooting up a bus load of christians is justified in Islam? Even if its a command not to be friends or allies, thats not exactly saying "therefore kill them" is it?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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wally1 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2055 Gender:	Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ... Reply #6 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:52am Fake story of boko haram slaughtering 350 african christians. https://africacheck.org/reports/boko-haram-massacre-image-fake/
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ... Reply #7 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:12pm wally1 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:28am: Cool story, does anyone see bullet holes in the bus or broken windows? Best to read the actual story before shooting your mouth off wally
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wally1

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Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ...
Reply #8 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:01pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 12:12pm:

wally1 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 11:28am:

Cool story, does anyone see bullet holes in the bus or broken windows?

Best to read the actual story before shooting your mouth off wally

it did say two where killed, and it says scroll down to view footage but the footage wasnt even about the attack.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ... Reply #9 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:04pm Its a story giving a rap to muslims, and you want to try on your evil western conspiracy schtick? Two people getting shot =/= bus riddled with bullet holes.
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ...
Reply #10 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 3:06pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 2:04pm:

Its a story giving a rap to muslims, and you want to try on your evil western conspiracy schtick?

Two people getting shot =/= bus riddled with bullet holes.

Yeah.

Behave yourself, Wally.

Don't muddy the waters here. It was a genuinely brave and heroic act that these Muslims did at the risk of their lives.

It's one to remember for the future.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 52487 At my desk.	Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ... Reply #11 - Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 7:37pm How does this story make you feel Wally?
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wally1

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Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ...
Reply #12 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:04am

freediver wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2015 at 7:37pm:

How does this story make you feel Wally?

Piss weak story.

The above bus in the photo is the exact bus that was shot at in 2014.

Again Gandalf will disagree with me, but claims the bus was shot at, but no bullet holes in the bus, no dead bodies, no blood.

Im not from africa but i hardly beleive the story is true.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ... Reply #13 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 10:27am So tell me Wally, what sinister conspiratorial angle is the evil western media running with this story?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 52487 At my desk.	Re: Some very brave and decent Muslims ... Reply #14 - Dec 24^th, 2015 at 11:01am Wally do you dislike it because Muslims are standing up to Muslims?
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