Australian Politics Forum - What the media isn't telling you Climate Change

Chimp_Logic

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #45 - Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:13pm

have a read of this gizmo

ONE day in 1924, Albert Einstein received a parcel from Professor Langevin of the University of Paris.

He wanted Einstein to vet the PhD thesis of Louis de Broglie, who had espoused a theory which was rather mind-boggling.

Langevin, being the supervisor, was not sure of the acceptability of de Broglie’s work.

The thesis examiner was not sure whether to pass the candidate either.

They wanted Einstein’s comment and assessment.

Einstein later gave his stamp of approval by saying de Broglie “had lifted a corner of the great veil”.

His PhD thesis later earned de Broglie a Nobel Prize in Physics.

Einstein knew a gem when he saw one.

Weiner Heisenberg would have failed his PhD viva if not for his famous and caring supervisor who protected him and put in a good word for him.

His PhD thesis was a theoretical investigation into fluid dynamics. There were no instruments involved.

His examiner happened to be an experimentalist and he grilled him on things like: “How does a battery work?” and “What is the resolving power of a microscope?”

These questions were not expected by Heisenberg and he could not give satisfactory answers.

According to David Lindley, in his book Uncertainty, he could not recall the text book formula, tried to work it out on the spot, and got it wrong.

In Lindley’s words, Heisenberg “got his doctorate, but with a grade barely above pass”.

Ironically, Heisenberg later became a world famous physicist, with a Nobel prize in Physics to boot.

His career in physics outshone that of his ex-examiner and ex-supervisor.

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #46 - Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:17pm

In his book Massive: The Higgs Boson and the Great Hunt in Science, Ian Sample told the story of Dennis Sciama (later PhD supervisor to Stephen Hawking at Cambridge) who one day rushed to his PhD supervisor’s office and knocked on the door.

When he was called in, he said: “Professor Dirac, I’ve just thought of a way of relating the formation of stars to cosmological questions, shall I tell you about it?”

Dirac just coldly said “No”, leaving poor Sciama little choice other than to walk back out.

Despite being a difficult supervisor, many still want Dirac’s supervision because his laureate aura is too compelling.

It adds value to your PhD thesis. This is what matters most.

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Chimp_Logic Gold Member Offline πολιτικός Posts: 4826 Mawson Base Gender:	Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change Reply #47 - Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:19pm ...politics is infused in every human endevour - and science is not immune to it's degrading and self corrupting effects
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gizmo_2655

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #48 - Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:21pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:08pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 10:53pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 10:43pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 10:31pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 10:28pm:

the manner in which Science functions today (and for some time now) necessitates peer review as a critical element of the scientific process

.... don't confuse the scientific method with the scientific process as a whole.

No, it does NOT. How can there be "peer review" with (for example) a new discipline???

give me an example of a new discipline and how it encountered problems with peer review

take your time gizmo

Nicolaus Copernicus, Johannes Kepler, Charles Darwin, Albert Einstein, Christiaan Barnard and Thomas Edison

you still dont understand how the process works.

Profoundly novel work can still be assessed by your peers for adhering to the basic scientific method and being mathematically consistent.

Paul Dirac's PhD thesis for example, submitted in his early 20s managed to get him a Nobel prize in Physics - a very rare achievement. He mathematically predicted the existence of the anti-electron (or anti matter). It was several years later that experimental evidence verified his mathematical/theoretical prediction.

There were no physicists available that were experts in the area of anti-matter - it wasnt even an experimental area research yet.

What the peer review process demands in this case are reviewers/examiners that can best assess the fundamentals and basic scientific claims contained in the thesis.

the scientific method itself hasnt been re-invented and the logic and axioms of mathematics are well understood and can be applied.

Actually I DO understand how the process works...what you obviously do NOT understand, is that getting someone to 'review' your work is convenient, but in NO way 'required'... sure it helps to give the impression that other people agree with your conclusions, but that really doesn't mean that your theory doesn't exist, if it's not 'peer reviewed', it just means that the people you may have called 'idiots' don't like your ideas.

In all honesty, you could produce a scientific theory that 2+2=5....and as long as it was internally 'consistent' it might be correct, but it still wouldn't pass 'peer review'.

That IS, after all, the entire point of the scientific method..Consensus isn't relevant, 'proof' and logic IS

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change Reply #49 - Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:36pm Gone quiet Chimp??....Why is that?
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Chimp_Logic

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #50 - Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:52pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:36pm:

Gone quiet Chimp??....Why is that?

proof and logic are tested by the peer review process gizmo.

The peer reviewers/examiners must arrive at a consensus

Are you aware of how many instances of "proof" and "logic" that have failed under peer review scrutiny?

you have constructed an erroneous misunderstood scientific bubble that has burst around your ears gizmo

You keep digging that hole deeper and deeper....

You will reach the centre of the earth very soon if you're not careful gizmo

...this is exactly WHY the AGW denialist stance doesnt stand up to any rudimentary scrutiny - i

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« Last Edit: Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:59pm by Chimp_Logic »

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gizmo_2655

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #51 - Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:57pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:52pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:36pm:

Gone quiet Chimp??....Why is that?

proof and logic are tested by the peer review process gizmo.

The peer reviewers/examiners must arrive at a consensus

You keep digging that hole deeper and deeper....

You will reach the centre of the earth very soon if youre not careful gizmo

http://wwwcdn.channel5.com/assets/images/000/030/361/large_size_MonkeyLife_S5_Ch...

Actually no, they are not...

Peer review...ask Copernicus and Galileo Galilei about "consensus" in science??

And going by YOUR idea of "science"..will I find Pellucidar when I reach the 'centre of the Earth'???

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #52 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:01am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:57pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:52pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:36pm:

Gone quiet Chimp??....Why is that?

proof and logic are tested by the peer review process gizmo.

The peer reviewers/examiners must arrive at a consensus

You keep digging that hole deeper and deeper....

You will reach the centre of the earth very soon if youre not careful gizmo

http://wwwcdn.channel5.com/assets/images/000/030/361/large_size_MonkeyLife_S5_Ch...

Actually no, they are not...

Peer review...ask Copernicus and Galileo Galilei about "consensus" in science??

you dont understand the basics of paradigm shifts - read some Popper or Bruno Latour (good start to understanding how revolutions work in the scientific realm)

Galileo's work was peer reviewed by the way - unfortunately for him his examiners were in the catholic Church - the Vatican I believe.

And your AGW denialist religion also fails peer review scrutiny - and this time, its not the Catholic Church that is looking at your crack pot ideas.
(in fact they arent looking at them at all because they arent scientific in any way shape or form)

perhaps you can have Dr Sircus look at your theories - I believe he can cure for cancer with baking soda and magnesium tablets, as well as knowing how the worlds climate works

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« Last Edit: Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:08am by Chimp_Logic »

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gizmo_2655

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #53 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:13am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:01am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:57pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:52pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:36pm:

Gone quiet Chimp??....Why is that?

proof and logic are tested by the peer review process gizmo.

The peer reviewers/examiners must arrive at a consensus

You keep digging that hole deeper and deeper....

You will reach the centre of the earth very soon if youre not careful gizmo

http://wwwcdn.channel5.com/assets/images/000/030/361/large_size_MonkeyLife_S5_Ch...

Actually no, they are not...

Peer review...ask Copernicus and Galileo Galilei about "consensus" in science??

you don't understand the basics of paradigm shifts - read some Popper or Bruno Latour (good start to understanding how revolutions work in the scientific realm)

Galileo's work was peer reviewed by the way - unfortunately for him his examiners were in the catholic Church - the Vatican I believe.

And your AGW denialist religion also fails peer review scrutiny - and this time, its not the Catholic Church that is looking at your crack pot ideas.
(in fact they aren't looking at them at all because they aren't scientific in any way shape or form)

perhaps you can have Dr Sircus look at your theories - I believe he can cure for cancer with baking soda and magnesium tablets, as well as knowing how the worlds climate works

The skeptic position is not a 'religion'....that's the CAGW position..."Gaia hates humans" and wants to hurts us etc...The anthropogenic climate change concept is much closer to a 'religion' than skepticism will ever be...

And the only person who seems to talk about "Dr Sircus" is you....(by the way, I added the ' to the "'aren't" and "don't" in you post)....which I learnt in 2nd class, in 1969..

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« Last Edit: Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:18am by gizmo_2655 »

"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #54 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:21am

gizmo, you are definitely NOT a sceptic.

Look up the definition of the word and how it pertains to the scientific process.

scepticism is a very important element of how Science progresses and pushes human knowledge

And everybody in this forum has seen first hand that you struggle to grasp the basics of how science works.

So well done gizmo - well done in stinkin' out this forum once again.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #55 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:49am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:21am:

gizmo, you are definitely NOT a sceptic.

Look up the definition of the word and how it pertains to the scientific process.

scepticism is a very important element of how Science progresses and pushes human knowledge

And everybody in this forum has seen first hand that you struggle to grasp the basics of how science works.

So well done gizmo - well done in stinkin' out this forum once again.

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/tunatickler/proboscis0925b1.jpg

Sorry, Chimp, but YES I am a skeptic..
I have a very good grasp of the scientific method (although perhaps NOT the idiot 'science' you seem to prefer, that whole moronic "consensus" crap)

"Skepticism or scepticism (see spelling differences) is generally any questioning attitude towards unempirical knowledge or opinions/beliefs stated as facts, or doubt regarding claims that are taken for granted elsewhere."

SO, YEP, I am a sceptic. And other than the "AGW true believers", no one would believe that I have any problems 'grasping' how science works..
YOU, on the other hand, very obviously DO have problems with how science works...
Cynicism, disbelief and skepticism are how science really works....if you 'accept' any statement without subjecting it to critical examination, then you are most definitely NOT scientific..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #56 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:58am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:49am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:21am:

gizmo, you are definitely NOT a sceptic.

Look up the definition of the word and how it pertains to the scientific process.

scepticism is a very important element of how Science progresses and pushes human knowledge

And everybody in this forum has seen first hand that you struggle to grasp the basics of how science works.

So well done gizmo - well done in stinkin' out this forum once again.

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/tunatickler/proboscis0925b1.jpg

Sorry, Chimp
, but YES I am a skeptic..
I have a very good grasp of the scientific method (although perhaps NOT the idiot 'science' you seem to prefer, that whole moronic "consensus" crap)

"Skepticism or scepticism (see spelling differences) is generally any questioning attitude towards unempirical knowledge or opinions/beliefs stated as facts, or doubt regarding claims that are taken for granted elsewhere."

SO, YEP, I am a sceptic. And other than the "AGW true believers", no one would believe that I have any problems 'grasping' how science works..
YOU, on the other hand, very obviously DO have problems with how science works...
Cynicism, disbelief and skepticism are how science really works....if you 'accept' any statement without subjecting it to critical examination, then you are most definitely NOT scientific..

it has already been demonstrated that you are not a sceptic and have publicly denounced the basic tenants of the scientific process.

Which is actually quite a feat, considering that you neither understand scepticism nor how science functions in a mature social setting.

And apologising for lying about being a sceptic will not save your decaying carcass now gizmo

You stand condemned as a deranged clown puppet maggot who emits the foul stench of Hades.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #57 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 1:04am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:58am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:49am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 16^th, 2015 at 12:21am:

gizmo, you are definitely NOT a sceptic.

Look up the definition of the word and how it pertains to the scientific process.

scepticism is a very important element of how Science progresses and pushes human knowledge

And everybody in this forum has seen first hand that you struggle to grasp the basics of how science works.

So well done gizmo - well done in stinkin' out this forum once again.

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/tunatickler/proboscis0925b1.jpg

Sorry, Chimp
, but YES I am a skeptic..
I have a very good grasp of the scientific method (although perhaps NOT the idiot 'science' you seem to prefer, that whole moronic "consensus" crap)

"Skepticism or scepticism (see spelling differences) is generally any questioning attitude towards unempirical knowledge or opinions/beliefs stated as facts, or doubt regarding claims that are taken for granted elsewhere."

SO, YEP, I am a sceptic. And other than the "AGW true believers", no one would believe that I have any problems 'grasping' how science works..
YOU, on the other hand, very obviously DO have problems with how science works...
Cynicism, disbelief and skepticism are how science really works....if you 'accept' any statement without subjecting it to critical examination, then you are most definitely NOT scientific..

it has already been demonstrated that you are not a sceptic and have publicly denounced the basic tenants of the scientific process.

Which is actually quite a feat, considering that you neither understand scepticism nor how science functions in a mature social setting.

And apologising for lying about being a sceptic will not save your decaying carcass now gizmo

You stand condemned as a deranged clown puppet maggot who emits the foul stench of Hades.

NO Chimp...you have NOT yet 'demonstrated' that I am not a skeptic...Whether or not you disagree with my position on the political ideology of human caused climate change, the fact that I think it's an idiotic, and unsupported idea really does make me a skeptic...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Rider

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #58 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 6:55am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 8:53pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 6:45pm:

Rider wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 6:33am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 11:41pm:

lee wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 6:25pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 13^th, 2015 at 5:12pm:

Not a single fossil fuel funded scientist or organisation can rig up a Cooling or Static climate model.

They probably could - it would be just as scientific. Which is probably why they don't.

No - it just wouldnt pass the peer reviewed scientific process

Do you know what that process involves lee?

Have you heard of it before lee?

I can provide you with some very useful resources and study material so that you can get up to speed. (I still have my high school science class notes)

let me know if you wish to book some tutorials - my rates are expensive, but worthwhile lee

cheers mate

....oh, and well done

we are all very proud of your enormous work ethic and moral deceitfulness in this particular forum.

well done mate

Peer review is not a scientific process. Everything you say is lies. You are a fraud.

Peer review is a critical part of the scientific process

Actually, it is a 'critical part' of the PUBLISHING process.
Any article, book or story is reviewed or proof read before it goes to the printers. The reason science papers get 'peer' reviewed is so that the reviewers can have some idea of the subject matter.

Correct. Publishers wanted a proof reading service, this is the basis of the peer review dogma. Open to 'pal' reviews and fragrant abuse and simple not a valid test of any science.

Fits in nicely with the snake oil spruiking spivs like monkey.

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lee

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Re: What the media isn't telling you Climate Change
Reply #59 - Aug 16^th, 2015 at 11:44am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 15^th, 2015 at 11:08pm:

the scientific method itself hasnt been re-invented and the logic and axioms of mathematics are well understood and can be applied.

Statistics is a branch of mathematics and is well understood. A p value of 0.1 is crap. But that is precisely what Karl et al cited.

Why didn't you reply to Karl et al's pal peer review comment?

To refresh your memory -

'173 Boldface indicates trends that are significant at
the 0.10 significance level. An asterisk notes that

174 the trend is significant at the 0.10 level based on the uncertainty
in the trend estimate using the

175 IPCC methodology only.'

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2015/06/03/science.aaa5632.DC1/Karl-SM.p...

So was it Peer reviewed or Pal reviewed/

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