Australian Politics Forum - islam exposed by muslims

Big Donger Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 101739	Re: islam exposed by muslims Reply #450 - Aug 1^st, 2015 at 9:05pm Sounds a bit cloudy to me, Moses. Sounds suspiciously like you’re excusing non-Muslim murder. Not that there’s anything wrong with it.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #451 - Aug 1^st, 2015 at 9:29pm

moses wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 8:34pm:

Clear enough for you Gandalf?

Not really.

You demand we come up with 58 non-muslim atrocities of "the same kind of depravity" as the beheading family. Does that mean literally 58 cases of non-muslims beheading? Or would you accept any old run-of-the-mill murder. Since as you yourself say, "there is no mention at all of the level of barbarity attributed to murder."

So again I ask, would 58 separate incidents of non-muslim Australian men beating their wives to death work for you? Would that at least convince you that non-muslim men pose at least as great a threat to our society as muslim men?

Surely you would agree that drunken non-muslim men beating to death innocent Australian women pose more of a threat to Australian women - than do muslim men beheading Syrian soldiers in Syria - no?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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moses

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #452 - Aug 1^st, 2015 at 10:06pm

I've already said that 23,000,000 people will commit more homicide that 400,000.

However unlike the qur'an if I said same type of crime I mean same type of crime.

same: Having exactly identical identity or relevant properties.

So I'm asking for you to give 58 examples where non muslims are committing the same type of crimes.

The courts and our legal system recognize different degrees of homicide, most people agree with this. There can be premeditated homicide, accidental homicide, etc.etc.

Differing sentences are handed out based on this system.

Therefore some are legally considered worse than others.

For my mind muslims who murder people as a religious requirement, are as revoltingly evil, as the worst of the worst murderers in our society.

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Soren

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #453 - Aug 1^st, 2015 at 10:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 5:17pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 5:01pm:

Submission is not devotion.

In Islam, yes it is. But perhaps its a simple matter of mistranslation.

https://translate.google.com/#en/ar/submission

the arabic word here 'tasleem' is from the same root word that we get 'Islam'. Note the synonyms for this word:

Quote:

delivery, submission, surrender, transmission, acceptance, acknowledgement

now contrast this with the meaning of other words for 'submission':

Quote:

خنوع
subservience, servility, submission, meekness

and

Quote:

خضوع
submission, subordination, subjection, yielding, surrender, vassalage

The two latter words are what you mean when you talk about 'submission'. They are clearly different in meaning to the s-l-m (Islam) root word, which actually translates as "acceptance" and "acknowledgement"

Still blind slavery and not a loving relationship.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: islam exposed by muslims Reply #454 - Aug 1^st, 2015 at 11:05pm polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 3:50pm: Soren wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 2:54pm: islamqa Now you're getting a sense of the crap that I'm up against. Your people, Gandy. Don't look at me.
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Big Donger

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #455 - Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 3:11am

moses wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 10:06pm:

I've already said that 23,000,000 people will commit more homicide that 400,000.

However unlike the qur'an if I said same type of crime I mean same type of crime.

same: Having exactly identical identity or relevant properties.

So I'm asking for you to give 58 examples where non muslims are committing the same type of crimes.

The courts and our legal system recognize different degrees of homicide, most people agree with this. There can be premeditated homicide, accidental homicide, etc.etc.

Differing sentences are handed out based on this system.

Therefore some are legally considered worse than others.

For my mind muslims who murder people as a religious requirement, are as revoltingly evil, as the worst of the worst murderers in our society.

You can’t argue with that, G. More Muslims behead people (apart from trophy killers, serial killers, cannibals, tribal feuds, one-off drunken murders, vengeful wives, and every other tabloid beheading published daily).

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polite_gandalf

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #456 - Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 9:44am

Soren wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 11:05pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 3:50pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 2:54pm:

islamqa

Now you're getting a sense of the crap that I'm up against.

Your people, Gandy.

Don't look at me.

So you can rabbit on all day every day about Islam is this, Islam is that - but as soon as I start to refute what you say, you simply throw your hands up and say "don't look at me". Is that how it works?

If I started making up lies about whatever it is that you believe in, do you think its reasonable for me to jump to the same defense as soon as you objected to those lies?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #457 - Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 9:51am

moses wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 10:06pm:

I've already said that 23,000,000 people will commit more homicide that 400,000.

However unlike the qur'an if I said same type of crime I mean same type of crime.

same: Having exactly identical identity or relevant properties.

So I'm asking for you to give 58 examples where non muslims are committing the same type of crimes.

The courts and our legal system recognize different degrees of homicide, most people agree with this. There can be premeditated homicide, accidental homicide, etc.etc.

Differing sentences are handed out based on this system.

Therefore some are legally considered worse than others.

For my mind muslims who murder people as a religious requirement, are as revoltingly evil, as the worst of the worst murderers in our society.

Actually, my personal view is that militants killing and beheading soldiers of an authoritarian regime who are widely perceived as responsible for atrocities against civilians - would sit at the very mild end of the 'degeneracy' spectrum. What do you think moses - was that really the best example to use do you think?

So two points about this particular example that remain relevant:

1. morally - I actually don't think it is "worse" than a man beating his wife to death

2. in terms of the threat posed by muslims in the west - you really couldn't have picked a worse example - these beheaders are leaving the west to hunt down and kill other non-westerners. How can you possibly say these people pose more of a threat to wife killers or other murderers in Australia?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #458 - Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 11:57am

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 9:44am:

Soren wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 11:05pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 3:50pm:

Soren wrote on Aug 1^st, 2015 at 2:54pm:

islamqa

Now you're getting a sense of the crap that I'm up against.

Your people, Gandy.

Don't look at me.

So you can rabbit on all day every day about Islam is this, Islam is that - but as soon as I start to refute what you say, you simply throw your hands up and say "don't look at me". Is that how it works?

If I started making up lies about whatever it is that you believe in, do you think its reasonable for me to jump to the same defense as soon as you objected to those lies?

islamqa is an Islamic advice site, so talk to them if you disagree with what they post.

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moses

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #459 - Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 1:59pm

Gandalf wrote: Quote:

Actually, my personal view is that militants killing and beheading soldiers of an authoritarian regime who are widely perceived as responsible for atrocities against civilians - would sit at the very mild end of the 'degeneracy' spectrum. What do you think moses - was that really the best example to use do you think?

So two points about this particular example that remain relevant:

1. morally - I actually don't think it is "worse" than a man beating his wife to death

2. in terms of the threat posed by muslims in the west - you really couldn't have picked a worse example - these beheaders are leaving the west to hunt down and kill other non-westerners. How can you possibly say these people pose more of a threat to wife killers or other murderers in Australia?

What don't you understand about my statement:

Quote:

The courts and our legal system recognize different degrees of homicide, most people agree with this. There can be premeditated homicide, accidental homicide, etc.etc.

Differing sentences are handed out based on this system.

Therefore some are legally considered worse than others.

If you don't like it, take it up with our state and federal governments and courts.

I also stated

Quote:

For my mind muslims who murder people as a religious requirement, are as revoltingly evil, as the worst of the worst murderers in our society.

I stand by this absolutely, muslims torturing and murdering innocent men, women and children because their cult, satanic deity, depraved prophet and handbook of perversion and atrocities (qur'an) tell them to do it, these muslims are among the most evil revolting people on this earth.

All you're desperately trying to do is squirm away from what I first wrote:

Quote:

So once again the apologists and the muslims are disingenuously trying to stifle debate about the dangers of muslims.

There has been one Australian muslim man take his primary school aged kid overseas to participate in islamic beheading, he then posted the pictures on the internet to show his obedience to islam.

If the muslims and the apologists can show me 58 non muslims who have carried out the same degenerate actions as this muslim I will recant every single anti islam post I've ever made.

If the muslims and the apologists can't show me 58 non muslims who have committed the same kind of atrocities, do they have the balls to withdraw every single excuse and apology they have made?

There has been at least two muslim women who have gone overseas to participate in islamic atrocities.

Same deal show me 116 non muslim women who have committed the same kind of atrocity I'll withdraw and relinquish all my anti islamic views.

Does any muslim or apologist have the guts to accept the challenge, if you can't provide proof of 116 non muslim women committing the same kind of depravity, will they stop making excuses and apologies for islam?

There has been one muslim hold hostages at the lindt cafe while proclaiming the shahada.

Again I offer the same deal can the muslims and their apologists show me 58 non muslims committing the same kind of depravity?

I'll even double your chances of winning and double my chances of losing, don't find 58 half will do, find 29 non muslims per muslim in each case, who have performed such depraved acts as the muslims.

The challenge still stands Gandalf find me 58 other Australian non muslims (per each muslim perpetrator) who have committed the same depravities as the above muslims.

Or like I also said half will do, find 29 non muslim Australians(per each muslim perpetrator) who have committed the same type of depravities.

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« Last Edit: Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 2:07pm by moses »

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Pho Huc

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #460 - Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 2:07pm

Reading the comments on this thread it seems that the opposing party has difficulty understanding the terms of the bet I offered(and still do).

Obviously their is more chance that a murderer in Australia will be non-Moslem than Moslem. As stated 23000000 to 400000 population.

In light of this the terms of the bet are as follows.

Australia, total population 23,000,000 (400000 Moslem)
-vs-
the "west", total population 1.73 billion (47,000,000 Moslems)

I am stating that it is more probable that Australia will experience a homocide perpetrated by a non-Muslim than the west will experience and Homocide motovated by extreme Islam.

Their are twice as many Moslems in this sample as the total population of Australia.

To all the Islamaphobes this is what is known as a free swing!

Unless the whole rational for your opinions is flawed.

I state this because it is shown statistically, in easily available records.

If you are not prepared to take the bet it must be because you know how small the probability of a violent Islamic attack is.
Either that or you just couldn't live without my friendly banter !

fruit up or shut up Grin

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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polite_gandalf

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #461 - Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 2:56pm

moses wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 1:59pm:

The challenge still stands Gandalf find me 58 other Australian non muslims (per each muslim perpetrator) who have committed the same depravities as the above muslims.

You still haven't clarified if men beating their wives to death counts. If it does, then thats my answer (average 2/week = more than 58 per year). If it doesn't, I want a clear explanation why.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Pho Huc

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #462 - Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 3:32pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 2:56pm:

moses wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 1:59pm:

The challenge still stands Gandalf find me 58 other Australian non muslims (per each muslim perpetrator) who have committed the same depravities as the above muslims.

You still haven't clarified if men beating their wives to death counts. If it does, then thats my answer (average 2/week = more than 58 per year). If it doesn't, I want a clear explanation why.

Reading Moses's post I think he requires identical depravities(not equivalent).

So given his reasonable request you just need to find 58 non-moslem's who have traveled to a middle eastern civil war with their children and then photographed them with severed heads. Like i said, very reasonable.

If i am mistaken Moses please correct me and define what crimes would equate in your mind to the one mentioned in your post.

So much more reasonable than my bet which has been assiduously ignored and deflected.

Cmon Moses, your a betting man too obviously!

The whole western world Vs Australia

47 million crazed death cultists Moslems vs 23 million of us civilized folks. How can you possibly lose?

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: islam exposed by muslims Reply #463 - Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 3:43pm He can't bet pho - because in all likelihood he would have already lost. Surely in the time that you first made the bet a non-muslim Aussie has already committed a murder - given the average rate.
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Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: islam exposed by muslims Reply #464 - Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 4:38pm Agreed Gandalf, But for the bet to be valid the opposing party must accept it. At the moment they are not accepting it or rejecting it, just ignoring it (just like anything else irrefutable that counter acts their opinions). Fruit time! Were a betting culture! embrace your heritage!
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