Australian Politics Forum - islam exposed by muslims

Soren

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #375 - Jul 27^th, 2015 at 6:23pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 1:51pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 26^th, 2015 at 7:05pm:

SO as you can see I didn't call you a liar, you called yourself a liar.

ummm ok good logic S. Grin

- person A: if you like anchovies then you suck
- person B: I like anchovies, so I guess I must suck
- person A: SEE!? You said you suck - not me!!

Impeccable.

I really, truly don't know whether you are really this devious and dishonest or if you are so consumed by Emotionally Correct pique that you will simply not hear what you do not want to hear because it would require you to think.

I put a proposition to you to the effect that you cannot possibly believe in two mutually contradictory propositions at the same time with equal conviction.
You twisted it into saying that I suggested that if you believe only one side of the dilemma I put to you then you are a liar.

I cannot believe that you do not see your cack-handed attempt at sophisty. It ought to be beneath you as a 'reforming' Muslim but obvious isn't. You will not shirk even the crudest intellectual dishonesty.

PB clapping on is additional proof of how dishonest your little twist is.

Gandy, you are a liar

if

you maintain that you can equally believe two mutually contradictory things.
Or an idiot who doesn't understand either of the two contradictory sides put to you.

Or you are the White Queen.

"Soren laughed: "There's no use trying," he said; "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Gandalf. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

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« Last Edit: Jul 27^th, 2015 at 6:51pm by Soren »

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Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: islam exposed by muslims Reply #376 - Jul 27^th, 2015 at 7:17pm Regarding the capacity of people to hold onto contradictory views, ive read alot of quotes referencing the bible while speaking of their hatred of islam. To be consistent with the new testament you would be required to offer only love and forgiveness.
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Big Donger Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101714	Re: islam exposed by muslims Reply #377 - Jul 27^th, 2015 at 7:35pm Good show, old boy. You’re remembered at last. Marvellous stuff.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41433 Gender:	Re: islam exposed by muslims Reply #378 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 7:43am Quote: ..............Probe into extremism in schools A Muslim extremist on trial for a string of offences preached at the same Sydney high school currently the target of a counter-terrorism investigation into Islamic extremism within the education system. NSW Premier Mike Baird will today.................
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polite_gandalf

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #379 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 1:17pm

Soren wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 6:23pm:

Gandy, you are a liar if you maintain that you can equally believe two mutually contradictory things.

Nice try.

But here's what you should have wrote: you are a liar if you maintain that you can equally believe
what I believe to be
mutually contradictory things.

Big difference.

I don't believe them to be contradictory. I gave you ample opportunity to accept my sincerity on this, but instead you just continue insisting that it must be contradictory - as if you alone have the monopoly on universal truth - and conclude therefore that I am a liar.

It was clever of you (well not really) to twist this into a simple semantic exercise - of course if I claim to knowingly believe in two mutually contradictory things - that would make me a liar. Thats a no-brainer. You just left out a pretty darned important part of that: namely that I reject your premise that they *ARE* contradictory.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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moses

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #380 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 1:57pm

Gandalf your the perfect example of why islam / muslims are a threat to every sane and decent person on the planet.

You claim that you are totally unable to see any evil in the qur'an / islam.

Even though it's right there under your nose you are unable to see it.

Assuming you're being honest, the only possible way for someone to not see a physical reality right in front of them, would be for that person to be in a trance like state. (hypnotized by another person, self induced trance)

Your constant incantations to allah, the perpetual telling yourself that islam / allah represents good, you've put yourself in a trance.

Now if your belief really did not have any evil in it your state of mind would pose no problems at all.

However consider the other side of the coin.

There are other muslims out there who can see the physically existing evil in the qur'an and islam.

The absolutely can see the verses which tell them to go out and rape, torture and murder people as being the one true way to paradise.

They utterly believe so they commit the atrocities as an islamic spiritual requirement.

muslims killing each other as instructed in the qur'an is not the answer.

muslims like you and their apologists lying with the incessant islam is a religion of peace, it doesn't really mean what it says etc. is not the answer.

The answer is honesty about what's in the qur'an.

As you've realized you're unable to do this without destroying islam.

If you wait for the inevitable e.g. the world will clean up islam and the qur'an, it won't be very nice, but that's your choice.

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Pho Huc

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #381 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 2:16pm

aahh, Moses?

Re-reading this monstrous thread Gandalf has never agreed with your interpretations of the Quran.
Regardless of actual meanings/interpretations etc etc, If your talking to a spiritual person about there personal beliefs your pretty much in a logic free zone.
If they say "I believe in X" your pretty much stuck with the information that they believe in X.
Your interpretation of what X is is irrelevant to them.

If you say "but X means evil" they will say"not to me" and be totally correct. Its their personal interpretation which provides the foundation of their faith, not your interpretation.

Its fine if you want to debate interpretations externally but debating someone's personnel interpretation of faith is just stupid (and I don't use that word lightly).

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: islam exposed by muslims Reply #382 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 2:29pm Pho Huc wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 2:16pm: Your interpretation of what X is is irrelevant to them. As is my interpretation of X irrelevant to moses. Both moses and Soren in separate discussions - on the same endless loop which starts with "my truth is universal, therefore...."
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moses

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #383 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 2:33pm

Sidestepping the issue of the danger of both muslims E.G.:

The muslims who are in a trance like state and completely unable to comprehend the physical reality of evil in islam and qur'an.

The muslims who can see the evil and absolutely believes that it means what it says, that committing rape torture and murder is a legitimate islamic spiritual path.

Evading these issues will never solve the problem.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: islam exposed by muslims Reply #384 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 2:50pm moses wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 2:33pm: Evading these issues will never solve the problem. How about for once you give us some practical ideas on what WILL solve the problem moses. Emphasis on practical solutions - not just hot air about how evil muslim beliefs are. Can you do that?
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Pho Huc Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 985 Victoria Gender:	Re: islam exposed by muslims Reply #385 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 3:00pm polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 2:29pm: Pho Huc wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 2:16pm: Your interpretation of what X is is irrelevant to them. As is my interpretation of X irrelevant to moses. " precisely.
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Soren

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #386 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 7:04pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 1:17pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 6:23pm:

Gandy, you are a liar if you maintain that you can equally believe two mutually contradictory things.

Nice try.

But here's what you should have wrote: you are a liar if you maintain that you can equally believe
what I believe to be
mutually contradictory things.

Big difference.

I don't believe them to be contradictory. I gave you ample opportunity to accept my sincerity on this, but instead you just continue insisting that it must be contradictory - as if you alone have the monopoly on universal truth - and conclude therefore that I am a liar.

It was clever of you (well not really) to twist this into a simple semantic exercise - of course if I claim to knowingly believe in two mutually contradictory things - that would make me a liar. Thats a no-brainer. You just left out a pretty darned important part of that: namely that I reject your premise that they *ARE* contradictory.

Thank you Gandy, you are in the bag - if you don't mind me saying so.

Show us how Islam valorises
Individual choice over submission to Mohammed's revelations
Freedom of speech, conscience, religion.
How Islam has not treated non Muslims as dhimmis throughout its entire history
How shia and sunni Islam have NOT been completely intolerant of each other
How Islam permitted freedom of religion and conscience to Jews, Christians, Hindus, pagans
How Muslims are who kill cartoonists, translators, film makers in the 21st century, in the name of Islam, are demonstrably wrong
What Muslims like you who think they are wrong are doing about them - other than berating people like me.

This is just for starters, I am sure I will have more questions once you start addressing these questions.

The long and the short of it - you have no evidence of any kind that will show that Islam is compatible with Enlightenment Western political and ethical standards that prevail today across much of Europe, North America, Australia and NZ.

But you are invited to give

your interpretation

on all these points and I am sure many others that will pop up due to your answers.

Over to you, Gandy.

Wink

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Pho Huc

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #387 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 7:13pm

Soren wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 7:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 1:17pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 6:23pm:

Gandy, you are a liar if you maintain that you can equally believe two mutually contradictory things.

Nice try.

But here's what you should have wrote: you are a liar if you maintain that you can equally believe
what I believe to be
mutually contradictory things.

Big difference.

I don't believe them to be contradictory. I gave you ample opportunity to accept my sincerity on this, but instead you just continue insisting that it must be contradictory - as if you alone have the monopoly on universal truth - and conclude therefore that I am a liar.

It was clever of you (well not really) to twist this into a simple semantic exercise - of course if I claim to knowingly believe in two mutually contradictory things - that would make me a liar. Thats a no-brainer. You just left out a pretty darned important part of that: namely that I reject your premise that they *ARE* contradictory.

Thank you Gandy, you are in the bag - if you don't mind me saying so.

Show us how Islam valorises
Individual choice over submission to Mohammed's revelations
Freedom of speech, conscience, religion.
How Islam has not treated non Muslims as dhimmis throughout its entire history
How shia and sunni Islam have NOT been completely intolerant of each other
How Islam permitted freedom of religion and conscience to Jews, Christians, Hindus, pagans
How Muslims are who kill cartoonists, translators, film makers in the 21st century, in the name of Islam, are demonstrably wrong
What Muslims like you who think they are wrong are doing about them - other than berating people like me.

This is just for starters, I am sure I will have more questions once you start addressing these questions.

The long and the short of it - you have no evidence of any kind that will show that Islam is compatible with Enlightenment Western political and ethical standards that prevail today across much of Europe, North America, Australia and NZ.

But you are invited to give

your interpretation

on all these points and I am sure many others that will pop up due to your answers.

Over to you, Gandy.

Wink

Its generally polite to answer the other parties queries(regarding what you personally advise regarding practical actions) before getting into your lengthy self indulgent rants......

Its just good manners Wink

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The law locks up the man who steals the goose from the common, but leaves the greater criminal loose who steals the common from the goose (convict saying)

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Soren

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #388 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 8:51pm

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 12^th, 2015 at 11:55am:

Who were the perpetrators, who were the victims?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/905/kSJCF5.jpg

https://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/files/2009/05/highway-of-death.jpeg

Who's dead, who's holding the gun?

http://rt.com/files/news/21/af/90/00/000_par2004031832277.jpg

http://pix.avaxnews.com/avaxnews/db/47/000047db_medium.jpeg

To give some proportion to the numbers of civilian dead in Iraq in 2003:

http://images.usatoday.com/news/graphics/iraq_deaths_topper.gif

Who's holding the gun in Afghanistan in 2001-2011? Who is dead?

http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20140510/362033_UK-soldier.jpg

http://rt.com/files/news/2c/1d/40/00/afghanistan-us-soldiers-uri.jpg

Soren and Sprint, it was (primarily) Christians who killed these Muslims, often in state sanctioned massacres, utilising high-tech weaponry without care as to what "collateral" damage they inflicted.

As much as you claim Christianity has "no Army" the reality is quite a bit different, Sprint.

As much as you claim I have lied, there are tens of thousands, millions perhaps photos which demonstrate otherwise, Soren.

Now, why don't you grow up, both of you and stop denying the reality of what the rest of the world has seen? Roll Eyes

In war you kill the enemy.

Simple.

That is ALL that war is about. Killing the enemy. Don't get into a war if you do not want to be killed.

BUT IF YOU DO GET INTO A WAR don't act surprised if you get killed.

War is about killing the enemy until it knows it's beaten.

Nothing less, nothing more.

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Soren

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #389 - Jul 28^th, 2015 at 8:54pm

Pho Huc wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 7:13pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 7:04pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 28^th, 2015 at 1:17pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 27^th, 2015 at 6:23pm:

Gandy, you are a liar if you maintain that you can equally believe two mutually contradictory things.

Nice try.

But here's what you should have wrote: you are a liar if you maintain that you can equally believe
what I believe to be
mutually contradictory things.

Big difference.

I don't believe them to be contradictory. I gave you ample opportunity to accept my sincerity on this, but instead you just continue insisting that it must be contradictory - as if you alone have the monopoly on universal truth - and conclude therefore that I am a liar.

It was clever of you (well not really) to twist this into a simple semantic exercise - of course if I claim to knowingly believe in two mutually contradictory things - that would make me a liar. Thats a no-brainer. You just left out a pretty darned important part of that: namely that I reject your premise that they *ARE* contradictory.

Thank you Gandy, you are in the bag - if you don't mind me saying so.

Show us how Islam valorises
Individual choice over submission to Mohammed's revelations
Freedom of speech, conscience, religion.
How Islam has not treated non Muslims as dhimmis throughout its entire history
How shia and sunni Islam have NOT been completely intolerant of each other
How Islam permitted freedom of religion and conscience to Jews, Christians, Hindus, pagans
How Muslims are who kill cartoonists, translators, film makers in the 21st century, in the name of Islam, are demonstrably wrong
What Muslims like you who think they are wrong are doing about them - other than berating people like me.

This is just for starters, I am sure I will have more questions once you start addressing these questions.

The long and the short of it - you have no evidence of any kind that will show that Islam is compatible with Enlightenment Western political and ethical standards that prevail today across much of Europe, North America, Australia and NZ.

But you are invited to give

your interpretation

on all these points and I am sure many others that will pop up due to your answers.

Over to you, Gandy.

Wink

Its generally polite to answer the other parties queries(regarding what you personally advise regarding practical actions) before getting into your lengthy self indulgent rants......

Its just good manners Wink

Yeah - except he didn't ask anything. Had he asked, I would have answered. But there are no questions.

No, wait! What IS his query about? It is about what HE believes. Am I to tell him what he believes? Or shall I allow HIM to articulate it?

What the hell is wrong with YOU?

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