Australian Politics Forum - islam exposed by muslims

Soren

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #270 - Jul 21^st, 2015 at 6:06pm

Big Donger wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 8:46am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 8:02am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 19^th, 2015 at 11:19pm:

14 pages of mass murders and apologetics and diverters are still lying.

What is the bet an Islamic mass murder happens within a month ?

Quote:

At least 30 die in twin ISIS attacks

At least 30 people have been killed in suicide attacks in a towns on either side of the Turkish-Syrian border

I win.

islam murders more.

islam is a cult

Kill them.

No need. They are doing it themselves - 3000 killed in the latest Ramadan Bombathon.

Can you match that, kuffar??

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Big Donger

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #271 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 12:15am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 4:33pm:

4:95 - refers to Mujahideen - which are literally people who perform jihad (both from the root word "j-h-d" - meaning to strive). The Quran mentions jihad many times, and never is described in terms of physical fighting or killing. It is described in terms of devoting your self and your wealth to the cause of Islam. This could be anything from charities, to building mosques to performing pilgramage, humanitarian aid etc etc. Interestingly, the so called 'war verse' (2:216) doesn't use any words derived from jhd, instead uses the more literal word for physical fight (from the root word "q-t-l"). Pick up any arab newspaper and any mention of fighting or war in a violent, military sense will be using words derived from this q-t-l root.

In short, there is no basis whatsoever to the claim that mujahideen in the Quran refer to people engaging in military and/or physical acts of violence - especially not in 4:95

Ah. Strangely enough, Abu said exactly the same thing. Now watch Moses tear this down as a blatant porkie.

It doesn’t mean what it says. Islam is the religion of peace. Sometimes a question is just a question.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #272 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 7:58am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 4:33pm:

4:95 - refers to Mujahideen - which are literally people who perform jihad (both from the root word "j-h-d" - meaning to strive). The Quran mentions jihad many times, and never is described in terms of physical fighting or killing. It is described in terms of devoting your self and your wealth to the cause of Islam. This could be anything from charities, to building mosques to performing pilgramage, humanitarian aid etc etc. Interestingly, the so called 'war verse' (2:216) doesn't use any words derived from jhd, instead uses the more literal word for physical fight (from the root word "q-t-l"). Pick up any arab newspaper and any mention of fighting or war in a violent, military sense will be using words derived from this q-t-l root.

In short, there is no basis whatsoever to the claim that mujahideen in the Quran refer to people engaging in military and/or physical acts of violence - especially not in 4:95

You go tell them.

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Big Donger

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #273 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 9:38am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 7:58am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 4:33pm:

4:95 - refers to Mujahideen - which are literally people who perform jihad (both from the root word "j-h-d" - meaning to strive). The Quran mentions jihad many times, and never is described in terms of physical fighting or killing. It is described in terms of devoting your self and your wealth to the cause of Islam. This could be anything from charities, to building mosques to performing pilgramage, humanitarian aid etc etc. Interestingly, the so called 'war verse' (2:216) doesn't use any words derived from jhd, instead uses the more literal word for physical fight (from the root word "q-t-l"). Pick up any arab newspaper and any mention of fighting or war in a violent, military sense will be using words derived from this q-t-l root.

In short, there is no basis whatsoever to the claim that mujahideen in the Quran refer to people engaging in military and/or physical acts of violence - especially not in 4:95

You go tell them.

Tell them.

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Pho Huc

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #274 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 1:22pm

Big Donger wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 9:38am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 7:58am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 4:33pm:

4:95 - refers to Mujahideen - which are literally people who perform jihad (both from the root word "j-h-d" - meaning to strive). The Quran mentions jihad many times, and never is described in terms of physical fighting or killing. It is described in terms of devoting your self and your wealth to the cause of Islam. This could be anything from charities, to building mosques to performing pilgramage, humanitarian aid etc etc. Interestingly, the so called 'war verse' (2:216) doesn't use any words derived from jhd, instead uses the more literal word for physical fight (from the root word "q-t-l"). Pick up any arab newspaper and any mention of fighting or war in a violent, military sense will be using words derived from this q-t-l root.

In short, there is no basis whatsoever to the claim that mujahideen in the Quran refer to people engaging in military and/or physical acts of violence - especially not in 4:95

You go tell them.

Tell them.

Im confused, are Sprint and Karnal stating that no other moslems are aware of the meaning of mujahideen and that it is gandalfs responsibility to inform them?

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41468 Gender:	Re: islam exposed by muslims Reply #275 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:12pm gandalf is saying some terrorists have the wrong meaning of the koran. So their actions are 'in error.' I suggest he tells the terrorists the correct meaning. It's pointless to tell me, telling me will not change their actions.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #276 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:22pm

moses wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 2:48pm:

there are innumerable verses which directly urge muslims to be jihadist killers as the true path to paradise. To kill unbelievers until all religion is for allah etc.etc.

....

moses wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 3:55pm:

qur'an 4.95:Not equal are those believers remaining [at home] - other than the disabled- and the mujahideen, [who strive and fight] in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred the mujahideen through their wealth and their lives over those who remain [behind], by degrees. And to both Allah has promised the best [reward]. But Allah has preferred the mujahideen over those who remain [behind] with a great reward -

qur'an 9.111: Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

4:95 - already dealt with.

As for 9:111: lets just review the actual claim of moses' that he is trying to support with this verse:

verses which directly urge muslims to be jihadist killers as the true path to paradise.

This verse does indeed describe a transaction - a necessary 'cost' the muslim must pay before they can enter paradise. But that transaction does not involve being killers - the actual transaction is described in the first line - "Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs". The price for admission into heaven, is to hand over possession of their selves and their wealth to God. It is understood at the metaphysical level - muslims must accept in their hearts that ownership of their soul and their earthly possessions does not belong to them, but to God. That is the transaction. The rest of the verse merely describes just one way in which that fully submitted muslim behaves - "to fight in the way of Allah" - and yes, this is fighting in the literal sense - as the root word meaning physical fighting (q-t-l) is used. But what is "fighting in the way of Allah"? The Quran clearly describes the limitations for fighters: don't transgress limits, don't be the aggressor, always accept an offer of peace, treat prisoners humanely and free/exchange them at the first opportunity. After this, the seemingly terrifying words "slay and be slain" is simply stating the obvious: muslims have already been given permission to fight in self-defense, so of course when this happens - people die - no great revelation there.

The truth is, when read with a proper understanding of the underpinning Quranic philosophy, the true meaning of 9:111 is actually the very opposite of moses's extremely shallow interpretation. True submission to Islam is by its very definition 'peace' - as verse 5:16 highlights (a verse that funnily enough you will never see moses citing). And verse 9:111 is describing true submission.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Pho Huc

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #277 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:29pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:12pm:

gandalf is saying some terrorists have the wrong meaning of the koran.
So their actions are 'in error.'

I suggest he tells the terrorists the correct meaning.
It's pointless to tell me, telling me will not change their actions.

Gandalf probably doesn't associate much with islamic extremists. he would have to know 1000 moslems before it was statistically probable he would meet one extremists.

Gandalf has asserted that this is the position of the majority of Moslems on this verse, given he is the only Moslem contributing you pretty much have to take his word for it(though it is supported quantifiably by the vast majority of Moslems not being terrorists or jihadis)

Since the threads sub topic was regarding the existence of countless verses in the Quran supporting violent jihad, of which one has been provided and subsequently rebutted please provide more verse's in support of terrorism or cede the point and move the debate along.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41468 Gender:	Re: islam exposed by muslims Reply #278 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:33pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:12pm: gandalf is saying some terrorists have the wrong meaning of the koran. So their actions are 'in error.' I suggest he tells the terrorists the correct meaning. It's pointless to tell me, telling me will not change their actions. as I said
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Pho Huc

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #279 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:37pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:33pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:12pm:

gandalf is saying some terrorists have the wrong meaning of the koran.
So their actions are 'in error.'

I suggest he tells the terrorists the correct meaning.
It's pointless to tell me, telling me will not change their actions.

as I said

But it may change your opinion of the majority of moslems who are not extremists, and changing your opinion will lower the hate level marginally.

anyway, cede the point or provide more verse.

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Secret Wars

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #280 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:41pm

Pho Huc wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:29pm:

Since the threads sub topic was regarding the existence of countless verses in the Quran supporting violent jihad, of which one has been provided and subsequently rebutted please provide more verse's in support of terrorism or cede the point and move the debate along.

Apologist clowns can earnestly debate the Koran and decide for themselves that nothing in there supports terrorism or islamic inspired atrocities and rebut all day long.

But if you pulled your heads out of your arses and looked around you would realise it doesn't matter what you apologist clowns decree which interpretations are correct or not.

Other muslims do not agree, and have demonstrated that they can find ample justifications within the koran and the faith to visit murder, mayhem and atrocities on other muslims and unbelievers.

But don't let reality interrupt your earnest discussions and learned debate. Roll Eyes

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Pho Huc

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #281 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 3:11pm

Secret Wars wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:41pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:29pm:

Since the threads sub topic was regarding the existence of countless verses in the Quran supporting violent jihad, of which one has been provided and subsequently rebutted please provide more verse's in support of terrorism or cede the point and move the debate along.

Apologist clowns can earnestly debate the Koran and decide for themselves that nothing in there supports terrorism or islamic inspired atrocities and rebut all day long.

We do, with reason and logic.
If you cant compete on this playing field go draw yourself up cute little poster and join a protest somewhere.

I welcome new points or view or information that may change peoples existing points of view. your post contains neither.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #282 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 3:12pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 8:02am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 19^th, 2015 at 11:19pm:

14 pages of mass murders and apologetics and diverters are still lying.

What is the bet an Islamic mass murder happens within a month ?

Quote:

At least 30 die in twin ISIS attacks

At least 30 people have been killed in suicide attacks in a towns on either side of the Turkish-Syrian border

I win.

islam murders more.

islam is a cult

these are the actions that expose islam

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #283 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 3:15pm

Secret Wars wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:41pm:

Pho Huc wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 2:29pm:

Since the threads sub topic was regarding the existence of countless verses in the Quran supporting violent jihad, of which one has been provided and subsequently rebutted please provide more verse's in support of terrorism or cede the point and move the debate along.

Apologist clowns can earnestly debate the Koran and decide for themselves that nothing in there supports terrorism or islamic inspired atrocities and rebut all day long.

But if you pulled your heads out of your arses and looked around you would realise it doesn't matter what you apologist clowns decree which interpretations are correct or not.

Other muslims do not agree, and have demonstrated that they can find ample justifications within the koran and the faith to visit murder, mayhem and atrocities on other muslims and unbelievers.

But don't let reality interrupt your earnest discussions and learned debate. Roll Eyes

hi secret - I thought your entire posting should be used, instead of the lying edited one used in the typical islamic style.

I hate islam

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Pho Huc

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Re: islam exposed by muslims
Reply #284 - Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 3:18pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2015 at 3:12pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 21^st, 2015 at 8:02am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 19^th, 2015 at 11:19pm:

14 pages of mass murders and apologetics and diverters are still lying.

What is the bet an Islamic mass murder happens within a month ?

Quote:

At least 30 die in twin ISIS attacks

At least 30 people have been killed in suicide attacks in a towns on either side of the Turkish-Syrian border

I win.

islam murders more.

islam is a cult

these are the actions that expose islam

Still waiting for those innumerable verses you mentioned, or an admission that you cant produce such information.

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