Australian Politics Forum - Islam and Australian secular values

|dev|null

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4434
Gender: male

Re: Islam and Australian secular values
Reply #30 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 2:59pm

Yadda wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 9:29am:

ColdFact wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 7:57am:

It always amuses me that like waving a red rag at a bull (bulls can't really see red) that any discussion about governments or vested interests mixing politics with religion just turns into Muslim bashing.

I lived in an area with a huge Muslim population, mixed with Christians and all sorts of religions. We all mixed together very well, went to football games together, ate at McDonalds (Yechhh), drank Coca Cola (yechhhh). No Muslim ever tried to convert me or ostracize me.

People with these narrow-minded views need to get a grip on a subject that they have little experience with.

Not go looking for some cut-and-paste job on the Net.

ColdFact,

You opinion, is that i know very little about ISLAM, or what motivates 'the moslem'.

Which one? There are 1.6 billion of them, afterall... Cheesy

Back to top

"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islam and Australian secular values Reply #31 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 3:04pm Muslims acting as individuals? Goodness me HB, what an absurd idea. Ever see the cybermen on Dr Who? We're just like that.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: Islam and Australian secular values Reply #32 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 3:26pm polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 3:04pm: Muslims acting as individuals? Goodness me HB, what an absurd idea. Ever see the cybermen on Dr Who? We're just like that. Really? I thought you were more like the Daleks:
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islam and Australian secular values Reply #33 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 3:41pm lol - Dalek humour never gets old
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53220
At my desk.

Re: Islam and Australian secular values
Reply #34 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 7:39pm

Quote:

I point out that a particular claim is rubbish - because it is rubbish (and you agree) - and you have no idea where its going? Interesting. Is it because I didn't indulge in some rant about some western conspiracy, and it was left to you to try and bait me into doing so that you are left so clueless?

It was because you said this:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 3:25pm:

valleyboy wrote on Dec 1^st, 2014 at 11:45pm:

The worst countries haven't managed to evolve. There religion is still integral to politics and every aspect of peoples' lives.

An extremely ill-thought out statement - The Soviet Union, the entire Eastern Block, North Korea, Baathist Iraq and Syria - just a sample of the many thoroughly corrupt, brutal, anti-freedom regimes in the last 50 years - and every one of them either atheist or irreligious.

What is wrong with me trying to figure out what this is about? Like I said, I have no idea where this is going. That depends on what you say.

Quote:

I think when its so obviously trying to construct some sort of strawman by baiting me with the completely irrelevant and out-of-the-blue "or are they all western puppets" its fair enough to ask what its all about.

The "western puppets" thing was Abu's standard explanation for why there is no such thing as an Islamic State. If you have your own explanation, feel free to offer it.

Quote:

But to answer your question, there probably were some 'islamic regimes' during that period, I haven't really thought about it. Iran for example, after 1979. And yes, there have also been a lot of western client regimes.

Is religion only integral to politics in those few Islamic regimes?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 46311	Re: Islam and Australian secular values Reply #35 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 9:32pm \|dev\|null wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 3:26pm: polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 3:04pm: Muslims acting as individuals? Goodness me HB, what an absurd idea. Ever see the cybermen on Dr Who? We're just like that. Really? I thought you were more like the Daleks: Spike Milligan at his best.
Back to top	It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... IP Logged

Dirty Paki Khunt Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 103041	Re: Islam and Australian secular values Reply #36 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 9:55pm Where’s Abu?
Back to top	IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: Islam and Australian secular values
Reply #37 - Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 10:07pm

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 7:39pm:

What is wrong with me trying to figure out what this is about? Like I said, I have no idea where this is going.

Why is it going anywhere? He made a statement which I disagree with - I explained why I disagree with it - even you, apparently, disagree with it. Thats really all there is to it. I never intended it to "go" anywhere.

Sometimes a response is just a response.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53220 At my desk.	Re: Islam and Australian secular values Reply #38 - Dec 4^th, 2014 at 8:22am So why the elaborate dance and posturing to avoid answering the question?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islam and Australian secular values Reply #39 - Dec 4^th, 2014 at 9:04am I made a simple rebuttal to the OP FD - which even you agree with. The posturing and dancing was from you by trying to put words into my mouth about 'western puppets' and such. Sometimes a response is just a response - and trolling is always just trolling.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 53220
At my desk.

Re: Islam and Australian secular values
Reply #40 - Dec 4^th, 2014 at 12:40pm

Trying to get a straight answer from a Muslim:

G:
The Soviet Union, the entire Eastern Block, North Korea, Baathist Iraq and Syria - just a sample of the many thoroughly corrupt, brutal, anti-freedom regimes in the last 50 years - and every one of them either atheist or irreligious.

F:
Have there been any Muslim countries during this period Gandalf? Or were they all western puppets?

G:
Sure, a country that has a majority of muslims is a muslim country. Plenty of them.

F:
So Baathist Iraq is not a Muslim country?

G:
Baathist Iraq was a muslim country - I never said it wasn't.
Having an irreligious regime doesn't stop a muslim country being a muslim country.

F:
Have there been any 'Muslim regimes' during this period Gandalf? Or were they all western puppets?

G:
Why don't we cut to the chase and you explain exactly what strawman you are attempting to create. I suspect Karnal is right and you are just transposing an old argument you had with Abu on to me.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 4^th, 2014 at 9:04am:

The posturing and dancing was from you by trying to put words into my mouth about 'western puppets' and such.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 1:30pm:

And yes, there have also been a lot of western client regimes.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islam and Australian secular values Reply #41 - Dec 4^th, 2014 at 1:32pm ok I think part of this is about misinterpreting my first post - which I admit may be a little ambiguous. By "every single one" i didn't mean every single "bad" regime that ever existed during the post war era, but every single one from that sample I listed.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53220 At my desk.	Re: Islam and Australian secular values Reply #42 - Dec 5^th, 2014 at 9:14pm By 'misinterpreting', do you mean asking a direct question about whether that is what you meant?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islam and Australian secular values Reply #43 - Dec 5^th, 2014 at 9:18pm freediver wrote on Dec 5^th, 2014 at 9:14pm: By 'misinterpreting', do you mean asking a direct question about whether that is what you meant? You asked me a question about western puppets - not what I meant by 'every single one'
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 22896
A cat with a view

Re: Islam and Australian secular values
Reply #44 - Dec 5^th, 2014 at 9:25pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 5^th, 2014 at 9:18pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 5^th, 2014 at 9:14pm:

By 'misinterpreting', do you mean asking a direct question about whether that is what you meant?

You asked me a question about western puppets - not what I meant by 'every single one'

'Punch and Judy' are Western puppets.

Maybe it was about them ?

Yeah. Tongue

Well i can tell you FD, 'Punch and Judy' are NOT moslems. Cool

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged