My simplistic state doesn't seem to exist...anywhere!
Believe what you want. Pray to whatever deity you wish. Build whatever church or place of worship you want. Teach your children whatever you want. Respect the religious beliefs and practices of others.

But leave me, my family and children, my country, our political system -- from mainstream to grass roots -- and our schools...ALONE.
Break my laws and -- a little bit like Sharia law -- you get the ol' hot lead enima.

ColdFact wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 6:16am:



That is the point [or the realisation which you need to come to]!

If you do not respect 'the moslem' and his god,           if you are an atheist,          or a Christian or a Jew,          then you are deemed to be a criminal, by 'the moslem' [i.e. by the follower of ISLAM].



Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.


ISLAM......


ISLAMIC LAW
"Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.) "
fiqhussunnah/fus1_06




THE KORAN
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29




THE 'PROPHET' OF ISLAM
- DEAD.
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260







But while moslems are weak, we do not have to be concerned ?

Coz, while moslems are weak, 'the moslem' will tell us that ISLAM is a tolerant faith.

......i.e. all the while, that 'the moslem' has no opportunity to impose his malicious will upon us, we are safe ?

Is that what you believe ?       



IMAGE...





Quote:

Sheikh Yassir al-Burhami - an ISLAMIC scholar and Egyptian Salafi leader
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/how-circumstance-dictates-isla...

freediver wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 8:50pm:


Why don't we cut to the chase and you explain exactly what strawman you are attempting to create. I suspect Karnal is right and you are just transposing an old argument you had with Abu on to me.

I think my point should be very clear - that the OP's claim that "the worst" (presumably in terms of freedom and democracy) countries in the world can simplistically be pidgeon-holed as religious fundamentalist regimes, is incorrect. Would you at least agree with that?

I would have thought Yadda would have attacked the secular values tpart as well.

Yadda wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 9:29am:


Nah...didn't say anything like that.   It's up above if you want to read what I said....Yep there it is....just up there!
Talking about actual experiences.

Who cares what anybody knows about any religion.  I had to suffer through a Catholic education, I've got enough bullshit stacked up to last me a lifetime.  But these nut-job religos won't leave my kids alone when the local school lets these drop-kick scripture teachers loose on our schools.  Yeah you can sign off -- but they'll get you in the playground, after school or drop friggin' bibles in your letterbox -- or come around door knocking.

One thing I can say for the Muslims is that during my long, long stay amongst a large Muslim community, nobody ever knocked on my door and tried to convert me -- except those Mormon, Seven Day Adventist and Jehovah Witnesses traveling circuses. 

I personally don't know the first thing about Islam -- or any other religion outside of the brainwashing that I've had.  And I couldn't give a monkey's.

We all have to live together. 

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2014 at 3:25pm:


The Soviets,Norks along with Iraq and Syria have evolved.

What happened to the Soviets after Reagan said tear down this wall, did the Cold war against Communism end without a shot being fired?

The Norks are still the same communist dictators, nothing new there.

Parts of Iraq and Syria have evolved or should we say returned to the 7th century with the Islamic state.
Assad is still the same bloodthirsty regime, the Shia have aligned with Iran.

Of course the Kurds have evolved with secular deomcracy and human rights for all in lands they control.

The Australian government is irreligious or even atheist, we have separation of religion and state, do you consider the Australian government to be atheist and irreligious Gandalf?

Communism is just like a religion, why do you think the USA and many other secular countries oppose it?

What is the difference between the atheist Australian government and communism gandalf?

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 9:10am:


I have no idea where this is going Gandalf - hence the question. You do sound a lot like Abu, not so much because of the "so such thing as an Islamic state" schtick, but because of your efforts to deflect. Abu was also fond of claiming I was steering the discussion somewhere sinister with full knowledge of what was going on, when in reality he was leading the way.

I agree that the communists were probably just as bad.

Have there been any 'Muslim regimes' during this period Gandalf? Or were they all western puppets?

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 12:35pm:


I point out that a particular claim is rubbish - because it is rubbish (and you agree) - and you have no idea where its going? Interesting. Is it because I didn't indulge in some rant about some western conspiracy, and it was left to you to try and bait me into doing so that you are left so clueless?

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2014 at 12:35pm:


I think when its so obviously trying to construct some sort of strawman by baiting me with the completely irrelevant and out-of-the-blue "or are they all western puppets" its fair enough to ask what its all about.

But to answer your question, there probably were some 'islamic regimes' during that period, I haven't really thought about it. Iran for example, after 1979. And yes, there have also been a lot of western client regimes.