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Greenpeace co founder on climate change (Read 3133 times)
Baronvonrort
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Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Nov 13th, 2014 at 12:44pm
 
Interesting comments on climate change from one of Greenpeace's co founders, good comments on genetically modified crops as well.

Quote:
CO2 should be classified as a nutrient, a food, a fertiliser- but governments would call it a pollutant.
www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/agribusiness/general-news/co2-a-nutrient-not...


CO2 generators are sold to increase production in Greenhouses,many peer reviewed papers on how increasing CO2 makes crops grow faster.
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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #1 - Nov 13th, 2014 at 12:57pm
 
While that is true in many areas temp increases will make crops grow not at all.
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rabbitoh08
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #2 - Nov 13th, 2014 at 12:57pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 13th, 2014 at 12:44pm:
Interesting comments on climate change from one of Greenpeace's co founders, good comments on genetically modified crops as well.

Quote:
CO2 should be classified as a nutrient, a food, a fertiliser- but governments would call it a pollutant.
www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/agribusiness/general-news/co2-a-nutrient-not...


CO2 generators are sold to increase production in Greenhouses,many peer reviewed papers on how increasing CO2 makes crops grow faster.

errr....what is your point?  Virtually all nutrients, foods, and fertilisers are also pollutants.

Try pouring superphosphate, or a few dead cows into a river and see what happens
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #3 - Nov 13th, 2014 at 3:08pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 13th, 2014 at 12:44pm:
Interesting comments on climate change from one of Greenpeace's co founders, good comments on genetically modified crops as well.

Quote:
CO2 should be classified as a nutrient, a food, a fertiliser- but governments would call it a pollutant.
www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/agribusiness/general-news/co2-a-nutrient-not...


CO2 generators are sold to increase production in Greenhouses,many peer reviewed papers on how increasing CO2 makes crops grow faster.

You aren't choosing to talk about the rate of change:why not may we ask? Are you hiding something??
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #4 - Nov 13th, 2014 at 3:43pm
 
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Nov 13th, 2014 at 3:08pm:
Baronvonrort wrote on Nov 13th, 2014 at 12:44pm:
Interesting comments on climate change from one of Greenpeace's co founders, good comments on genetically modified crops as well.

Quote:
CO2 should be classified as a nutrient, a food, a fertiliser- but governments would call it a pollutant.
www.theland.com.au/news/agriculture/agribusiness/general-news/co2-a-nutrient-not...


CO2 generators are sold to increase production in Greenhouses,many peer reviewed papers on how increasing CO2 makes crops grow faster.

You aren't choosing to talk about the rate of change:why not may we ask? Are you hiding something??

I haven't been on this forum for years for nothing ya know!  Smiley Smiley
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Garfield.
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #5 - Nov 14th, 2014 at 8:29am
 
Greenpeace has been hijacked by fascists that are using environmental concerns as a cover for promoting a political agenda.
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #6 - Nov 15th, 2014 at 11:12am
 
Garfield. wrote on Nov 14th, 2014 at 8:29am:
Greenpeace has been hijacked by fascists that are using environmental concerns as a cover for promoting a political agenda.

All human relations is politics.
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Soren
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #7 - Nov 25th, 2014 at 5:02pm
 
He had a very good article in the paper just recently.

AGW is bogus.  We need more CO2, not less.

We need more carbon dioxide, not less

PATRICK MOORE THE AUSTRALIAN NOVEMBER 24, 2014 12:00AM

AUSTRALIAN politics has been more influenced by the climate debate than any other country. Yet Australia is responsible for only 1.5 per cent of global CO2 emissions. Perhaps this speaks of Australia’s extraordinary commitment to the international community. Yet Australia has threatened to hobble its own economy while much larger ­nations take a pass while making pious pronouncements.

I am sceptical that humans are the main cause of climate change, and that it will be catastrophic in the near future. There is no scientific proof of this hypothesis, yet we are told “the debate is over”, the “science is settled”.

My scepticism begins with the warmists’ certainty they can predict the global climate with a computer model. The entire basis for the doomsday climate change scenario is the hypothesis that increased CO2 due to fossil fuel emissions will heat the Earth to unlivable temperatures.

In fact, the Earth has been warming very gradually for 300 years, since the Little Ice Age ended, long before heavy use of fossil fuels. Prior to the Little Ice Age, during the Medieval Warm Period, Vikings colonised Greenland and Newfoundland, when it was warmer there than today. And during Roman times, it was warmer, long before fossil fuels revolutionised civilisation.

Looking back over millennia, today the Earth is colder, and has a lower level of atmospheric CO2 than during nearly all the history of modern life. The idea that it would be catastrophic if CO2 were to increase and average global temperature were to rise a few degrees is preposterous.

Recently, the IPCC announced for the umpteenth time that we are doomed unless we reduce CO2 emissions to zero. ­Effectively this means either reducing the population to zero, or going back 10,000 years before humans began clearing forests for agriculture. This proposed cure is worse than adapting to a warmer world, if it comes about.

By its constitution, the IPCC has a hopeless conflict of interest. Its mandate is to consider only the human causes of global warming, not the many natural causes changing the climate for billions of years. We don’t understand the precise workings of the natural causes of climate change any more than we know if humans are part of the cause at present. But if the IPCC did not find that ­humans were the cause of warming, or if it found that warming would be more positive than negative, there would be no need for the IPCC under its present mandate. To survive, it must find on the side of the apocalypse. ­Either the IPCC should be reconstituted with a larger membership of UN bodies (it is now a partnership between the World Meteorological Organisation and the UN Environment Program), and its mandate expanded to include all causes of climate change, or it should be dismantled.

Climate change has become a powerful political force for many reasons. First, it is universal; we are told everything on Earth is threatened. Second, it invokes the two most powerful human motivators: fear and guilt. We fear driving our car will kill our grandchildren and feel guilty. Third, a powerful convergence of interests among key elites support the climate “narrative”. Environmentalists spread fear and raise donations; politicians appear to be saving the Earth from doom; the media has a field day with sensation and conflict; science institutions raise billions in grants, create whole new departments, and engage in a feeding frenzy of scary scenarios; business wants to look green, and get huge public subsidies for projects that would otherwise be economic losers, such as large wind farms and solar arrays. Fourth, the Left sees climate change as a perfect means to redistribute wealth from industrial countries to the developing world and the UN bureaucracy.

So we are told CO2 is a “toxic” “pollutant” that must be curtailed when in fact it is a colourless, odourless, tasteless, gas present at 400 parts per million of the global atmosphere and the most important food for life on earth. Without CO2 above 150 parts per million, all plants would die.

Over the past 150 million years, CO2 had been drawn down steadily (by plants) from about 3000 parts per million to about 280 parts per million before the industrial revolution. If this trend had continued, CO2 would have become too low to support life on Earth. Human use of fossil fuels and clearing land for crops have boosted CO2 from its lowest level in the history of the Earth back to 400 parts per million today.

At 400 parts per million, all our food crops, forests, and natural ecosystems are still on a starvation diet for CO2. While one wing of CSIRO promotes the IPCC line, another is demonstrating the positive impact of the small increase in CO2 over the past 50 years due primarily to fossil fuel use — a 10 per cent to 30 per cent increase in plant growth in many regions. Australia is benefiting more than most because its vegetation evolved for dry conditions. Increased CO2 means plants don’t need as much water, so our deserts are lusher.

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Soren
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #8 - Nov 25th, 2014 at 5:04pm
 
The optimum level of CO2 for plant growth, given enough water and nutrients, is about 1500 parts per million, nearly four times higher than today. Glasshouse growers inject CO2 to increase yields of 50 to 100 per cent. Farms and forests will be much more productive if CO2 keeps rising.

We have no proof increased CO2 is responsible for the slight warming over the past 300 years. There has been no significant warming for 18 years while we have emitted 25 per cent of all the CO2 ever emitted. Yet we have absolute proof CO2 is vital for life on Earth and plants would like more of it. Which should we emphasise to our children?

The IPCC’s followers have given us a vision of a dying world due to CO2 emissions. I say the Earth would be a lot deader with no CO2 and more of it will be a very positive factor in feeding the world. Let’s celebrate CO2.

Patrick Moore was a co-founder, and leader of Greenpeace for 15 years is now an independent ecologist and environmentalist based in Vancouver, Canada






Buy a V8 for Gaia.

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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #9 - Dec 9th, 2014 at 11:21pm
 
Patrick Moore did not found Greenpeace. He joined about a year after it was set up in Canada.

He is the chairperson of GreenSpirit Strategies Ltd, a leading Canadian green washing PR firm.

In February this year he told the US Congress that CO2 was 10 times its current levels during an ice age 450 million years ago. This has been demonstrated to be false. Moore has not retracted it.

He has received significant funding from the Nuclear Energy Institute, as well as funding (which may or may not be significant) from the Heartland Institute.

If you want to believe what Patrick Moore says, good luck to you. I won't try to stop you.
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #10 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:27am
 
Paella wrote on Dec 9th, 2014 at 11:21pm:
Patrick Moore did not found Greenpeace. He joined about a year after it was set up in Canada.

He is the chairperson of GreenSpirit Strategies Ltd, a leading Canadian green washing PR firm.

In February this year he told the US Congress that CO2 was 10 times its current levels during an ice age 450 million years ago. This has been demonstrated to be false. Moore has not retracted it.

He has received significant funding from the Nuclear Energy Institute, as well as funding (which may or may not be significant) from the Heartland Institute.

If you want to believe what Patrick Moore says, good luck to you. I won't try to stop you.


Gratuitous character assignation. Is that your best?
Straight out of the Alinsky Handbook for Leftwing Nutters.
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Stratos
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #11 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:36am
 
Soren, CO2 can develop plant growth, and this has been scientifically demonstrated.  However, there are several concerns with it, such as an increased amount of carbohydrate in the carbohydrate/protein ratio.

Then there is the much greater concern that rising temperatures and changing climate could have a catastrophic effect on worldwide crops that will far outweigh the benefits of having a greater plant growth from C02
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #12 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:52am
 
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:36am:
Soren, CO2 can develop plant growth, and this has been scientifically demonstrated.  However, there are several concerns with it, such as an increased amount of carbohydrate in the carbohydrate/protein ratio.

Then there is the much greater concern that rising temperatures and changing climate could have a catastrophic effect on worldwide crops that will far outweigh the benefits of having a greater plant growth from C02


How are those temperature rises working out for you?
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #13 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:19am
 
Soren wrote on Nov 25th, 2014 at 5:04pm:
The optimum level of CO2 for plant growth, given enough water and nutrients, is about 1500 parts per million, nearly four times higher than today. Glasshouse growers inject CO2 to increase yields of 50 to 100 per cent. Farms and forests will be much more productive if CO2 keeps rising.

We have no proof increased CO2 is responsible for the slight warming over the past 300 years. There has been no significant warming for 18 years while we have emitted 25 per cent of all the CO2 ever emitted. Yet we have absolute proof CO2 is vital for life on Earth and plants would like more of it. Which should we emphasise to our children?

The IPCC’s followers have given us a vision of a dying world due to CO2 emissions. I say the Earth would be a lot deader with no CO2 and more of it will be a very positive factor in feeding the world. Let’s celebrate CO2.

Patrick Moore was a co-founder, and leader of Greenpeace for 15 years is now an independent ecologist and environmentalist based in Vancouver, Canada






Buy a V8 for Gaia.


The optimum level for plant growth ... Are you a treehugger now?
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #14 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:23am
 
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:27am:
Paella wrote on Dec 9th, 2014 at 11:21pm:
Patrick Moore did not found Greenpeace. He joined about a year after it was set up in Canada.

He is the chairperson of GreenSpirit Strategies Ltd, a leading Canadian green washing PR firm.

In February this year he told the US Congress that CO2 was 10 times its current levels during an ice age 450 million years ago. This has been demonstrated to be false. Moore has not retracted it.

He has received significant funding from the Nuclear Energy Institute, as well as funding (which may or may not be significant) from the Heartland Institute.

If you want to believe what Patrick Moore says, good luck to you. I won't try to stop you.


Gratuitous character assignation. Is that your best?
Straight out of the Alinsky Handbook for Leftwing Nutters.

Talking about the optimum level for plant growth is next to psychosis when there are more than plants at stake here.

The blokes a knob end! End of really  Huh Grin Grin
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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BatteriesNotIncluded
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #15 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:24am
 
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:36am:
Soren, CO2 can develop plant growth, and this has been scientifically demonstrated.  However, there are several concerns with it, such as an increased amount of carbohydrate in the carbohydrate/protein ratio.

Then there is the much greater concern that rising temperatures and changing climate could have a catastrophic effect on worldwide crops that will far outweigh the benefits of having a greater plant growth from C02

He's pretending he doesn't understand complexity!
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #16 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:29am
 
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:52am:
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:36am:
Soren, CO2 can develop plant growth, and this has been scientifically demonstrated.  However, there are several concerns with it, such as an increased amount of carbohydrate in the carbohydrate/protein ratio.

Then there is the much greater concern that rising temperatures and changing climate could have a catastrophic effect on worldwide crops that will far outweigh the benefits of having a greater plant growth from C02


How are those temperature rises working out for you?

Ever heard of a phase change diagram?

Resource bottlenecks are coming  Wink Wink Smiley
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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is.  It wouldn't be there without the tax payer.  Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know....  (swaggy) *
 
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Stratos
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #17 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:46am
 
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:52am:
How are those temperature rises working out for you?


I suggest you have a brief look the NASA website I'll link below.  If you have any doubts about their claims, check the sources provided and compare them to wherever you are getting your information.

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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lee
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #18 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 11:54am
 
So according to NASA we still have a trend in warming at the same rate as 1970-1998? Or is it basically flat since? And all this with increasing CO2, the supposed 'Control Knob'. of Global Warming. The 'Control Knob' must be broken.

Arctic Sea Ice within about 1 standard deviation. 2012, the low point, due to storm (weather).

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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #19 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 12:51pm
 
Lee, did you check out any of the sources on the website?  They have citations for all of their claims.
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #20 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 1:02pm
 
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:46am:
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:52am:
How are those temperature rises working out for you?


I suggest you have a brief look the NASA website I'll link below.  If you have any doubts about their claims, check the sources provided and compare them to wherever you are getting your information.

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/


Why?
Well they would...woundnt they?

NASA still displays the old 97% chestnut on this website  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

So when are you going to admit that surface temps havent moved for the best part of 20 years?
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #21 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 1:08pm
 
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 1:02pm:
So when are you going to admit that surface temps havent moved for the best part of 20 years?


According to which scientists?
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #22 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 1:18pm
 
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 1:08pm:
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 1:02pm:
So when are you going to admit that surface temps havent moved for the best part of 20 years?


According to which scientists?


Oh a defer to authority and a waste my time red herring....too funny
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #23 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 1:23pm
 
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 1:18pm:
Oh a defer to authority and a waste my time red herring....too funny


I don't get it.  You make an unsubstantiated claim, and when asked you won't provide your source.

Would you mind showing me your source so I can have a look?
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #24 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:00pm
 
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 12:51pm:
Lee, did you check out any of the sources on the website?  They have citations for all of their claims.


From IPCC projections, from conjecture. But from empirical evidence? Excluding homogenised temperatures, of course, with 2.500 Sq Km grids. Because the temperature in those grids will be the same obviously. No variation due to air pressure, whether from height or weather.

So if we have a look at NOOA data,  division of NASA, from 1998 to present, we see that it is fairly flat and moving sideways. Quite unlike 1970 to 1998.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/global/globe/land_ocean/ytd/10/1880-201...

CO2 emissions have increased by about 1/3 since 1998, but as shown, the temps have not reflected that increase.

So, for a moment, ignore the citations,and simply use your eyes.


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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #25 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:03pm
 
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:29am:
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:52am:
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:36am:
Soren, CO2 can develop plant growth, and this has been scientifically demonstrated.  However, there are several concerns with it, such as an increased amount of carbohydrate in the carbohydrate/protein ratio.

Then there is the much greater concern that rising temperatures and changing climate could have a catastrophic effect on worldwide crops that will far outweigh the benefits of having a greater plant growth from C02


How are those temperature rises working out for you?

Ever heard of a phase change diagram?





Was the phase change diagram predicted or was it put there coz the models didn't work?

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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #26 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:21pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:00pm:
So if we have a look at NOOA data,  division of NASA, from 1998


Roll Eyes Yes, lets start with the biggest outlier and go from there Roll Eyes

You should never start any analysis from an outlier as it can skew data immensely.  Someone equally as dishonest could start from, say, 1985 and show that to skew the data the other direction.

lee wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:00pm:
CO2 emissions have increased by about 1/3 since 1998


Source?
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #27 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:59pm
 
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:21pm:
Source?


https://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/g...

According to Mauna Loa chart the CO2 has increased from about 275 ppm since 1700, 125 ppm. And from approx. 350 to 400 since about 1998, 50 ppm. 50/125 = 0.4, slightly larger than 0.33.

But I said at the outset that it was basically flat since 1998. Suddenly, that's not good enough. How humorous.

And the control knob is not controlling. How do you explain that? How many excuses for the 'cause of the pause', so far?
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #28 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 7:23pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:59pm:
But I said at the outset that it was basically flat since 1998. Suddenly, that's not good enough. How humorous.


As I explained to you before:

Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:21pm:
You should never start any analysis from an outlier as it can skew data immensely.  Someone equally as dishonest could start from, say, 1985 and show that to skew the data the other direction.


As for global warming being paused, I haven't seen any data to suggest this is the case.  If there is any scientific data to demonstrate this please let me know so I can check it out.
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #29 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 7:32pm
 
So you can't read a graph.

Look at the slope from 1970 -1998. That is the trend. Look at the graph from then until present. That trend is flat, unlike the trend from 1970-98. There is a stop in the trend. Whether that trend from 1970 -98 resumes or not, the trend has stopped. It depends on whether the next trend is up or down as to whether the trend is paused.

Of course if you want a longer time frame, you can always look back at the data prior to 1880 or therabouts.
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #30 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 7:35pm
 
Click your previous link

Go to "display trend"

select start date as 1998 and finish 2014

Then look at the line going up, not flat like you keep saying, even starting at a high outlier like a bad statistician.
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #31 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:09pm
 
Yes the world is warming. It is not statistically significant.

The trend is far below the 1970-98 trend. But that is not supposed to happen, because CO2, the supposed control knob, is supposed to keep driving the trend, with increasing levels. The "CO2" trend has stopped.

That is why the climate scientists are busy scrabbling around trying to find a 'cause of the pause'. Currently 52 papers trying to explain the 'pause'.

It is not the sceptics trying to explain the pause.

'Predictions initialized over 2000–2005 improve estimates of the recent global mean temperature hiatus.'

WG1AR5_TS_Final.pdf

So even though you don't know, the IPCC does.
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #32 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:54pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:09pm:
Yes the world is warming.

lee wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 7:32pm:
That trend is flat


Glad to see you have changed your mind Smiley

lee wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:09pm:
Currently 52 papers trying to explain the 'pause'.


Wow really? which 52?

lee wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:09pm:
'Predictions initialized over 2000–2005 improve estimates of the recent global mean temperature hiatus.'

WG1AR5_TS_Final.pdf


I'll have a read when I get home.
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #33 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:22pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:09pm:
Yes the world is warming. It is not statistically significant.

The trend is far below the 1970-98 trend. But that is not supposed to happen, because CO2, the supposed control knob, is supposed to keep driving the trend, with increasing levels. The "CO2" trend has stopped.

That is why the climate scientists are busy scrabbling around trying to find a 'cause of the pause'. Currently 52 papers trying to explain the 'pause'.

It is not the sceptics trying to explain the pause.

'Predictions initialized over 2000–2005 improve estimates of the recent global mean temperature hiatus.'

WG1AR5_TS_Final.pdf

So even though you don't know, the IPCC does.

Ever seen a phase change diagram?

Resource bottlenecks are coming!!
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #34 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:25pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 7:32pm:
So you can't read a graph.

Look at the slope from 1970 -1998. That is the trend. Look at the graph from then until present. That trend is flat, unlike the trend from 1970-98. There is a stop in the trend. Whether that trend from 1970 -98 resumes or not, the trend has stopped. It depends on whether the next trend is up or down as to whether the trend is paused.

Of course if you want a longer time frame, you can always look back at the data prior to 1880 or therabouts.

Multi point moving averages... There's dodgy and then there's propaganda that is short on substance  Cool
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #35 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:29pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:59pm:
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:21pm:
Source?


https://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/g...

According to Mauna Loa chart the CO2 has increased from about 275 ppm since 1700, 125 ppm. And from approx. 350 to 400 since about 1998, 50 ppm. 50/125 = 0.4, slightly larger than 0.33.

But I said at the outset that it was basically flat since 1998. Suddenly, that's not good enough. How humorous.

And the control knob is not controlling. How do you explain that? How many excuses for the 'cause of the pause', so far?

Complex systems... It's called non-linearity.

If you see linearity it's too late!
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #36 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:35pm
 
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 1:02pm:
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:46am:
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:52am:
How are those temperature rises working out for you?


I suggest you have a brief look the NASA website I'll link below.  If you have any doubts about their claims, check the sources provided and compare them to wherever you are getting your information.

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/


Why?
Well they would...woundnt they?

NASA still displays the old 97% chestnut on this website  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

So when are you going to admit that surface temps havent moved for the best part of 20 years?

'Surface temps' again.... Admission of non-linearity arising from a system boundary defined as complex....finally it's happened to me..ahem, all of us  Grin
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #37 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:40pm
 
Soren wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:03pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:29am:
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:52am:
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:36am:
Soren, CO2 can develop plant growth, and this has been scientifically demonstrated.  However, there are several concerns with it, such as an increased amount of carbohydrate in the carbohydrate/protein ratio.

Then there is the much greater concern that rising temperatures and changing climate could have a catastrophic effect on worldwide crops that will far outweigh the benefits of having a greater plant growth from C02


How are those temperature rises working out for you?

Ever heard of a phase change diagram?





Was the phase change diagram predicted or was it put there coz the models didn't work?


Phase change implies complexity I.e. Non-linearity!

Name one thing not defined as complex!

You got nothing tryhard!!

Thanks for playing!!!
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #38 - Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:42pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:00pm:
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 12:51pm:
Lee, did you check out any of the sources on the website?  They have citations for all of their claims.


From IPCC projections, from conjecture. But from empirical evidence? Excluding homogenised temperatures, of course, with 2.500 Sq Km grids. Because the temperature in those grids will be the same obviously. No variation due to air pressure, whether from height or weather.

So if we have a look at NOOA data,  division of NASA, from 1998 to present, we see that it is fairly flat and moving sideways. Quite unlike 1970 to 1998.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/global/globe/land_ocean/ytd/10/1880-201...

CO2 emissions have increased by about 1/3 since 1998, but as shown, the temps have not reflected that increase.

So, for a moment, ignore the citations,and simply use your eyes.



Interesting use of the word conjecture!
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #39 - Dec 11th, 2014 at 11:06am
 
The CO2 meme says that increasing CO2 should lead to an increasing temperature trend. A 33% increase since 1998 should be providing that, if the meme is true. Not one that is basically flat. The trend is not even staying the same as 1970-98.

Phil Jones of CRU, University of East Anglia, home of HADCRUt, said if temperatures were to stay flat for 15 years, it would be seen as a problem.

Ben Santer, one of the authors cited by NASA said 17 years.

Now it is pretty flat for 16 years, so in between them both.

Conjecture? Something that is less than a theory, having nothing to back it up? Like Trenberth's 'missing heat' hiding in the ocean? Pure postulation. Also less than hypothesis.
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #40 - Dec 11th, 2014 at 1:55pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 11:06am:
The CO2 meme says that increasing CO2 should lead to an increasing temperature trend. A 33% increase since 1998 should be providing that, if the meme is true. Not one that is basically flat. The trend is not even staying the same as 1970-98.

Phil Jones of CRU, University of East Anglia, home of HADCRUt, said if temperatures were to stay flat for 15 years, it would be seen as a problem.

Ben Santer, one of the authors cited by NASA said 17 years.

Now it is pretty flat for 16 years, so in between them both.

Conjecture? Something that is less than a theory, having nothing to back it up? Like Trenberth's 'missing heat' hiding in the ocean? Pure postulation. Also less than hypothesis.

Fact one: phase change is a known reality  Cheesy
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #41 - Dec 11th, 2014 at 2:04pm
 
Lee, stop being disingenuous.

You can do this by:

1.  Stop measuring data from 1998, as this is a statistical outlier, and will skew any data that comes after if as used as a start point.

2.  Stop saying the trend is "flat" when you have been shown that it clearly isn't.  You admitted this in a previous post.  EVEN if you take the 1998 start date the trend is still upwards.  If that is flat you must have a terrible time riding your bike.

(I'll have some time to read that report tonight) Smiley
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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:24pm:
Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act
 
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #42 - Dec 11th, 2014 at 3:53pm
 
I said basically flat, That is there is a small divergence but not statistically significant. But you knew that.

Even if you remove the outlier by using a straightedge from 1970 on, the trend stops about 2000.

But that probably isn't convenient.
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #43 - Dec 11th, 2014 at 4:28pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 3:53pm:
I said basically flat, That is there is a small divergence but not statistically significant. But you knew that.

Even if you remove the outlier by using a straightedge from 1970 on, the trend stops about 2000.

But that probably isn't convenient.

Lol, the river either grows or it stagnates and dies dear mr stagnant !!  Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #44 - Dec 11th, 2014 at 5:15pm
 
So what is the postulated level of accuracy of a 5x5 degree grid square?

I would suggest greater than the NOOA's +0.46 degree/ century trend since 1998. Especially when land based temperature is measured to 1/10 degree.
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #45 - Dec 12th, 2014 at 3:02am
 
lee wrote on Dec 11th, 2014 at 5:15pm:
So what is the postulated level of accuracy of a 5x5 degree grid square?

I would suggest greater than the NOOA's +0.46 degree/ century trend since 1998. Especially when land based temperature is measured to 1/10 degree.

Stop digging or are you getting subsidised to dig????

** oh! go daddy yesssssssssssss my friends kids kids kids don't need fibre internet to compete in the Asian century because no I am not australian I am a planet accountant like you dadddddddddy ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh  Grin !!!
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #46 - Dec 12th, 2014 at 2:58pm
 
Strange, no comment on why an increase of 33% in CO2 is not producing Alarming Warming.

Phase change? is that 'cause of the pause' 53 or one of the 52? How long is Phase Change supposed to last? So we can know when to exclude it as a reason. Wink

Nowhere do I see the 4C by 2100, that the IPCC is being increasing shrill about. But they do only want $100b/year to try and find it.

By the way, I checked the warming from 1997, before the big one; and from 1999 after the big one; and they were 0.44C and 0.65C per Century, respectively. So no joy there for the extreme warmists.
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #47 - Dec 12th, 2014 at 8:52pm
 
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:40pm:
Soren wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:03pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:29am:
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:52am:
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:36am:
Soren, CO2 can develop plant growth, and this has been scientifically demonstrated.  However, there are several concerns with it, such as an increased amount of carbohydrate in the carbohydrate/protein ratio.

Then there is the much greater concern that rising temperatures and changing climate could have a catastrophic effect on worldwide crops that will far outweigh the benefits of having a greater plant growth from C02


How are those temperature rises working out for you?

Ever heard of a phase change diagram?





Was the phase change diagram predicted or was it put there coz the models didn't work?


Phase change implies complexity I.e. Non-linearity!

Name one thing not defined as complex!

You got nothing tryhard!!

Thanks for playing!!!



But AGW is still bogus nonsense.

Whatcha gonna do??

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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #48 - Dec 12th, 2014 at 10:17pm
 
Further to my post above about the IPCC. An early report from Lima by the Garudian.  Oops

http://t.co/w8KPzwdThc
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #49 - Dec 12th, 2014 at 10:50pm
 
Soren wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 8:52pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:40pm:
Soren wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 6:03pm:
BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 10:29am:
Rider wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:52am:
Stratos wrote on Dec 10th, 2014 at 9:36am:
Soren, CO2 can develop plant growth, and this has been scientifically demonstrated.  However, there are several concerns with it, such as an increased amount of carbohydrate in the carbohydrate/protein ratio.

Then there is the much greater concern that rising temperatures and changing climate could have a catastrophic effect on worldwide crops that will far outweigh the benefits of having a greater plant growth from C02


How are those temperature rises working out for you?

Ever heard of a phase change diagram?





Was the phase change diagram predicted or was it put there coz the models didn't work?


Phase change implies complexity I.e. Non-linearity!

Name one thing not defined as complex!

You got nothing tryhard!!

Thanks for playing!!!



But AGW is still bogus nonsense.

Whatcha gonna do??


I can't do much: business and industry ain't called cabals for nothing!
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #50 - Dec 12th, 2014 at 10:52pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 12th, 2014 at 10:17pm:
Further to my post above about the IPCC. An early report from Lima by the Garudian.  Oops

http://t.co/w8KPzwdThc

In Lima they propose to propose: we all know this!
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Re: Greenpeace co founder on climate change
Reply #51 - Dec 13th, 2014 at 12:08pm
 
The enclosed paragraph says they want a "global agreement to find climate change by the end of next year". Grin
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