Australian Politics Forum - The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #75 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:59pm

I agree with penalty rates, and would never propose abolishing them, but even I agree that some things need to be looked at

I was talking to someone who works as a traffic controller (they hold up the stop / go sign during road works etc)... one of the jobs they are working on is the Pacific Fair extensions on the Gold Coast. Because its a shopping centre and they want to keep trading, a lot of the work has to occur at night ... my traffic controller friend stands to get $75 per hour for doing night shift

I don't begrudge this person their money, good on them if they can get it, but $75 to hold up a stop/ go sign? Thats $600 per nioght, or $3000 per week (gross).

then people complain that property is Australia is expensive Cheesy

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

crocodile

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6686
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #76 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 11:59pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:51pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:35pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:27pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Penalty rates are in place right now, and we don't pay double for coffee on Sundays

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition. There is no coffee regulator demanding that the price must be double on a Sunday because it's Sunday?

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition.

More because they often are able to sell about 10 times the volume on a week end in the right location.

And even more if the price comes down.

I doubt it - Coffee drinkers buy coffee anyway, it isn't really a price decision and there is no likelihood that the price would come down at all.

Doubt if you want. If it's not a price decision why not charge $20 a cup.

coffee shops will charge what the market will pay .... if they could get away with charging $20, they would ....

it has already been established that the market will pay approx. $5 for a coffee, why would they reduce that just because they don't need to pay penalty rates?

Another load of rubbish. The 'market' will pay $10. The volume would go down of course as demand drops off. Likewise, the 'market' would increase if the price dropped as demand picks up. The retailer sets the price where the best trade-off between volume and margin generates the greatest profit. No doubt that point would change with a change in marginal input costs.

Back to top

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #77 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 7:35am

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 11:59pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:51pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:35pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:27pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Penalty rates are in place right now, and we don't pay double for coffee on Sundays

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition. There is no coffee regulator demanding that the price must be double on a Sunday because it's Sunday?

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition.

More because they often are able to sell about 10 times the volume on a week end in the right location.

And even more if the price comes down.

I doubt it - Coffee drinkers buy coffee anyway, it isn't really a price decision and there is no likelihood that the price would come down at all.

Doubt if you want. If it's not a price decision why not charge $20 a cup.

coffee shops will charge what the market will pay .... if they could get away with charging $20, they would ....

it has already been established that the market will pay approx. $5 for a coffee, why would they reduce that just because they don't need to pay penalty rates?

Another load of rubbish. The 'market' will pay $10. The volume would go down of course as demand drops off. Likewise, the 'market' would increase if the price dropped as demand picks up. The retailer sets the price where the best trade-off between volume and margin generates the greatest profit. No doubt that point would change with a change in marginal input costs.

not sure where you live but in my area the average price of a coffee is $5 .... I'm going to open a coffee shop in your area if they're $10

The retailer sets the price where the best trade-off between volume and margin generates the greatest profit
wrong, the retailer will charge as much as he can get away with ... retailers have proven this time and time again. It is the same reason why woolies and coles would charge one price in one area for a product, and a different price in another area ... even though the cost price was the same for both areas

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

crocodile

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6686
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #78 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 7:49am

John Smith wrote on Sep 9^th, 2014 at 7:35am:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 11:59pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:51pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:35pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:27pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Penalty rates are in place right now, and we don't pay double for coffee on Sundays

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition. There is no coffee regulator demanding that the price must be double on a Sunday because it's Sunday?

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition.

More because they often are able to sell about 10 times the volume on a week end in the right location.

And even more if the price comes down.

I doubt it - Coffee drinkers buy coffee anyway, it isn't really a price decision and there is no likelihood that the price would come down at all.

Doubt if you want. If it's not a price decision why not charge $20 a cup.

coffee shops will charge what the market will pay .... if they could get away with charging $20, they would ....

it has already been established that the market will pay approx. $5 for a coffee, why would they reduce that just because they don't need to pay penalty rates?

Another load of rubbish. The 'market' will pay $10. The volume would go down of course as demand drops off. Likewise, the 'market' would increase if the price dropped as demand picks up. The retailer sets the price where the best trade-off between volume and margin generates the greatest profit. No doubt that point would change with a change in marginal input costs.

not sure where you live but in my area the average price of a coffee is $5 .... I'm going to open a coffee shop in your area if they're $10

The retailer sets the price where the best trade-off between volume and margin generates the greatest profit
wrong, the retailer will charge as much as he can get away with ... retailers have proven this time and time again. It is the same reason why woolies and coles would charge one price in one area for a product, and a different price in another area ... even though the cost price was the same for both areas

Good, we're in agreement then. You're essentially saying the same thing. As much as he can get away with is the best trade-off between volume and margin that yields the highest profit.

Back to top

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #79 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 8:29am

crocodile wrote on Sep 9^th, 2014 at 7:49am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 9^th, 2014 at 7:35am:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 11:59pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:51pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:35pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:27pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Penalty rates are in place right now, and we don't pay double for coffee on Sundays

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition. There is no coffee regulator demanding that the price must be double on a Sunday because it's Sunday?

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition.

More because they often are able to sell about 10 times the volume on a week end in the right location.

And even more if the price comes down.

I doubt it - Coffee drinkers buy coffee anyway, it isn't really a price decision and there is no likelihood that the price would come down at all.

Doubt if you want. If it's not a price decision why not charge $20 a cup.

coffee shops will charge what the market will pay .... if they could get away with charging $20, they would ....

it has already been established that the market will pay approx. $5 for a coffee, why would they reduce that just because they don't need to pay penalty rates?

Another load of rubbish. The 'market' will pay $10. The volume would go down of course as demand drops off. Likewise, the 'market' would increase if the price dropped as demand picks up. The retailer sets the price where the best trade-off between volume and margin generates the greatest profit. No doubt that point would change with a change in marginal input costs.

not sure where you live but in my area the average price of a coffee is $5 .... I'm going to open a coffee shop in your area if they're $10

The retailer sets the price where the best trade-off between volume and margin generates the greatest profit
wrong, the retailer will charge as much as he can get away with ... retailers have proven this time and time again. It is the same reason why woolies and coles would charge one price in one area for a product, and a different price in another area ... even though the cost price was the same for both areas

Good, we're in agreement then. You're essentially saying the same thing. As much as he can get away with is the best trade-off between volume and margin that yields the highest profit.

no, as much as they can get away with is exactly that ...

you are part of the reason why in Australia things are so expensive ... you believe their excuses. I can buy aussie made products overseas for less than I can buy them here .... thats not a trade off, thats extortion

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 62391
Here
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #80 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 8:47am

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:35pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:27pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Penalty rates are in place right now, and we don't pay double for coffee on Sundays

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition. There is no coffee regulator demanding that the price must be double on a Sunday because it's Sunday?

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition.

More because they often are able to sell about 10 times the volume on a week end in the right location.

And even more if the price comes down.

I doubt it - Coffee drinkers buy coffee anyway, it isn't really a price decision and there is no likelihood that the price would come down at all.

Doubt if you want. If it's not a price decision why not charge $20 a cup.

It isn't a price decision within the normal market parameters. You have to get to silly numbers to make the point which in normal terms is not relevant.

In a shopping centre I will often get a coffee from the nearest retailer without even looking at the price, I do not think I have ever walked to the other end because the coffee is 20 cents cheaper there. If I cover extra distance or go to a specific outlet it will be because I like the coffee and probably do not even remember what they charge.

If you think you can sell your coffee for $20 when all your competition is at below $5 then good luck with that.

Next thing you will be saying is why not charge $20 for a packet of smokes _ whoops too late.

Back to top

IP Logged

Swagman

Gold Member

Offline

Beware of cheap imitations......

Posts: 15095
Illawarra NSW
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #81 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 8:58am

John Smith wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:59pm:

I agree with penalty rates, and would never propose abolishing them, but even I agree that some things need to be looked at

I was talking to someone who works as a traffic controller (they hold up the stop / go sign during road works etc)... one of the jobs they are working on is the Pacific Fair extensions on the Gold Coast. Because its a shopping centre and they want to keep trading, a lot of the work has to occur at night ... my traffic controller friend stands to get $75 per hour for doing night shift

I don't begrudge this person their money, good on them if they can get it, but $75 to hold up a stop/ go sign? Thats $600 per nioght, or $3000 per week (gross).

then people complain that property is Australia is expensive Cheesy

There's slight hope for you yet Smithy. Cheesy

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 156342
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #82 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 9:25am

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 4:48pm:

... increased sales volumes by retail price reduction.

You haven't been listening: there won't be a retail price reduction.

The workers will be paid less, and the business owner will pocket the extra cash. That's it.

There will be no increase in sales volumes, as absolutely nothing will change for the customer.

Maybe in your fantasyland. Try and tell the world that any business owner when faced with an opportunity to increase sales volumes without penalty wouldn't take it. Dream on.

It has absolutely nothing to do with my own personal "utopias" or "fantasy-lands".

I'm just explaining how the real world operates. I'm being completely objective.

A business owner is not going to lower the price of coffee, just because penalty rates are abolished.

He'll pocket the extra cash and the casual workers will receive less money per hour on weekends. Nothing else will change.

Even if you were right, and he did reduce the price, and thus increase sales, he's still not going to hire any additional staff: the existing staff will just be required to work harder, and longer (for less).

Any way you look at it, abolishing penalty rates won't create jobs.

He will if any increase in volume is above the capacity of existing staff and the increase in revenue justifies it. Pretty fundamental logic really. If the opportunity to increase revenue is presented it will be taken with both arms.

It's irrelevant, anyway: he's not going to drop the price of coffee, just because penalty rates are abolished. It aint gonna happen.

Back to top

GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

IP Logged

crocodile

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6686
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #83 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 9:36am

John Smith wrote on Sep 9^th, 2014 at 8:29am:

crocodile wrote on Sep 9^th, 2014 at 7:49am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 9^th, 2014 at 7:35am:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 11:59pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:51pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:35pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:27pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Penalty rates are in place right now, and we don't pay double for coffee on Sundays

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition. There is no coffee regulator demanding that the price must be double on a Sunday because it's Sunday?

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition.

More because they often are able to sell about 10 times the volume on a week end in the right location.

And even more if the price comes down.

I doubt it - Coffee drinkers buy coffee anyway, it isn't really a price decision and there is no likelihood that the price would come down at all.

Doubt if you want. If it's not a price decision why not charge $20 a cup.

coffee shops will charge what the market will pay .... if they could get away with charging $20, they would ....

it has already been established that the market will pay approx. $5 for a coffee, why would they reduce that just because they don't need to pay penalty rates?

Another load of rubbish. The 'market' will pay $10. The volume would go down of course as demand drops off. Likewise, the 'market' would increase if the price dropped as demand picks up. The retailer sets the price where the best trade-off between volume and margin generates the greatest profit. No doubt that point would change with a change in marginal input costs.

not sure where you live but in my area the average price of a coffee is $5 .... I'm going to open a coffee shop in your area if they're $10

The retailer sets the price where the best trade-off between volume and margin generates the greatest profit
wrong, the retailer will charge as much as he can get away with ... retailers have proven this time and time again. It is the same reason why woolies and coles would charge one price in one area for a product, and a different price in another area ... even though the cost price was the same for both areas

Good, we're in agreement then. You're essentially saying the same thing. As much as he can get away with is the best trade-off between volume and margin that yields the highest profit.

no, as much as they can get away with is exactly that ...

You're not saying anything different. Neither am I. The retailer will try and maximize profit. Gross profit = Volume x Margin. If either go up, so does profit. If either goes down, so does profit. If one goes up while the other goes down the whole dynamic changes. It can either stay the same, result in less profit or result in more profit. The result will depend on the nature of any shift in demand vs price. It is unlikely to be a linear relationship.

you are part of the reason why in Australia things are so expensive ... you believe their excuses. I can buy aussie made products overseas for less than I can buy them here .... thats not a trade off, thats extortion

I'm not part of any problem or reason or excuse. I've made no statements as to whether or not I even support the proposals. I'm just telling you how it is.

Back to top

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

IP Logged

crocodile

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6686
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #84 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 9:38am

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 9^th, 2014 at 9:25am:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 4:48pm:

... increased sales volumes by retail price reduction.

You haven't been listening: there won't be a retail price reduction.

The workers will be paid less, and the business owner will pocket the extra cash. That's it.

There will be no increase in sales volumes, as absolutely nothing will change for the customer.

Maybe in your fantasyland. Try and tell the world that any business owner when faced with an opportunity to increase sales volumes without penalty wouldn't take it. Dream on.

It has absolutely nothing to do with my own personal "utopias" or "fantasy-lands".

I'm just explaining how the real world operates. I'm being completely objective.

A business owner is not going to lower the price of coffee, just because penalty rates are abolished.

He'll pocket the extra cash and the casual workers will receive less money per hour on weekends. Nothing else will change.

Even if you were right, and he did reduce the price, and thus increase sales, he's still not going to hire any additional staff: the existing staff will just be required to work harder, and longer (for less).

Any way you look at it, abolishing penalty rates won't create jobs.

He will if any increase in volume is above the capacity of existing staff and the increase in revenue justifies it. Pretty fundamental logic really. If the opportunity to increase revenue is presented it will be taken with both arms.

It's irrelevant, anyway: he's not going to drop the price of coffee, just because penalty rates are abolished. It aint gonna happen.

It's entirely relevant if it affects gross profit. Retailers always try to maximize profit.

Back to top

Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

IP Logged

ImSpartacus2

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6913

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #85 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 9:40am

I have never raced out of bed on a saturday/sunday morning to get a cup of coffee because I heard that coffees were going cheap at coffee shop X today. And when I arrive at the various coffee shops the difference of the price of the coffee between them (if any, and I stress if any because its rare that there is a difference, esp when they're operating side by side) is not a factor that I pay any regard to in deciding where I will sit. More often then not its whether I have had a good cup of coffee at that place before, if its clean, doesn't smell and the atmosphere is nice. It's very hard to put it more accurately then greggery already has including the part that the Croc here is just sprouting the basics he picked up in first year uni all those years ago and hasn't allowed his personal experience to build on what his formal education taught him. Its too bad.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dnarever

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 62391
Here
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #86 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 9:42am

John Smith wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:59pm:

I agree with penalty rates, and would never propose abolishing them, but even I agree that some things need to be looked at

I was talking to someone who works as a traffic controller (they hold up the stop / go sign during road works etc)... one of the jobs they are working on is the Pacific Fair extensions on the Gold Coast. Because its a shopping centre and they want to keep trading, a lot of the work has to occur at night ... my traffic controller friend stands to get $75 per hour for doing night shift

I don't begrudge this person their money, good on them if they can get it, but $75 to hold up a stop/ go sign? Thats $600 per nioght, or $3000 per week (gross).

then people complain that property is Australia is expensive

get $75 per hour for doing night shift

Night shift rates are typically around 15% I find $75 an hour difficult to believe if attributed to penalty rates it would put his normal hourly rate at about $65 on a normal week day. It could be realistic for a Sunday night ?

Is he working this as an overtime shift ?

Back to top

IP Logged

greggerypeccary

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 156342
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #87 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 9:42am

crocodile wrote on Sep 9^th, 2014 at 9:36am:

I'm not part of any problem or reason or excuse. I've made no statements as to whether or not I even support the proposals. I'm just telling you how it is.

You're just telling how it might be, not how it actually is.

In the real world, business owners don't drop the price of their products if their wage bill goes down.

Abolishing penalty rates won't drop the price of anything, and won't create any new jobs.

Back to top

GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 78311
Gender: male

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #88 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 9:43am

Swagman wrote on Sep 9^th, 2014 at 8:58am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:59pm:

I agree with penalty rates, and would never propose abolishing them, but even I agree that some things need to be looked at

I was talking to someone who works as a traffic controller (they hold up the stop / go sign during road works etc)... one of the jobs they are working on is the Pacific Fair extensions on the Gold Coast. Because its a shopping centre and they want to keep trading, a lot of the work has to occur at night ... my traffic controller friend stands to get $75 per hour for doing night shift

I don't begrudge this person their money, good on them if they can get it, but $75 to hold up a stop/ go sign? Thats $600 per nioght, or $3000 per week (gross).

then people complain that property is Australia is expensive Cheesy

There's slight hope for you yet Smithy. Cheesy

whats the matter Swag, thrown you into a loop now that your pigeon holes don't fit?

I don't know anyone that isn't open to reasonalbe debate apart from those on the right. Calling for penalty rates to be abolished is not reasonible.

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

ImSpartacus2

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6913

Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #89 - Sep 9^th, 2014 at 9:48am

crocodile wrote on Sep 9^th, 2014 at 9:38am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 9^th, 2014 at 9:25am:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:52pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 4:48pm:

... increased sales volumes by retail price reduction.

You haven't been listening: there won't be a retail price reduction.

The workers will be paid less, and the business owner will pocket the extra cash. That's it.

There will be no increase in sales volumes, as absolutely nothing will change for the customer.

Maybe in your fantasyland. Try and tell the world that any business owner when faced with an opportunity to increase sales volumes without penalty wouldn't take it. Dream on.

It has absolutely nothing to do with my own personal "utopias" or "fantasy-lands".

I'm just explaining how the real world operates. I'm being completely objective.

A business owner is not going to lower the price of coffee, just because penalty rates are abolished.

He'll pocket the extra cash and the casual workers will receive less money per hour on weekends. Nothing else will change.

Even if you were right, and he did reduce the price, and thus increase sales, he's still not going to hire any additional staff: the existing staff will just be required to work harder, and longer (for less).

Any way you look at it, abolishing penalty rates won't create jobs.

He will if any increase in volume is above the capacity of existing staff and the increase in revenue justifies it. Pretty fundamental logic really. If the opportunity to increase revenue is presented it will be taken with both arms.

It's irrelevant, anyway: he's not going to drop the price of coffee, just because penalty rates are abolished. It aint gonna happen.

It's entirely relevant if it affects gross profit.

Retailers always try to maximize profit.

Indeed, that's why they will always resist putting on new staff. Much easier just to pocket the $$$ they would otherwise have had to pay in penalty rates. That's a significant win for them and they wont be risking that win by gingering up their competitor right next door by lowering their price. One thing the ACCC has demonstrated over and over and over again since 1974. You dont need to have one word pass between competitors to have a price fixing arrangement.

Back to top

IP Logged

Poll
Question: Would you work Late night or weekends for single time
Yes 4 (21.1%) No 15 (78.9%) Total votes: 19 « Created by: John S on: Sep 7^th, 2014 at 12:31am »