Australian Politics Forum - The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates

crocodile

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #60 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:30pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 4:48pm:

... increased sales volumes by retail price reduction.

You haven't been listening: there won't be a retail price reduction.

The workers will be paid less, and the business owner will pocket the extra cash. That's it.

There will be no increase in sales volumes, as absolutely nothing will change for the customer.

Maybe in your fantasyland. Try and tell the world that any business owner when faced with an opportunity to increase sales volumes without penalty wouldn't take it. Dream on.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #61 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:41pm

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 4:48pm:

... increased sales volumes by retail price reduction.

You haven't been listening: there won't be a retail price reduction.

The workers will be paid less, and the business owner will pocket the extra cash. That's it.

There will be no increase in sales volumes, as absolutely nothing will change for the customer.

Maybe in your fantasyland. Try and tell the world that any business owner when faced with an opportunity to increase sales volumes without penalty wouldn't take it. Dream on.

It has absolutely nothing to do with my own personal "utopias" or "fantasy-lands".

I'm just explaining how the real world operates. I'm being completely objective.

A business owner is not going to lower the price of coffee, just because penalty rates are abolished.

He'll pocket the extra cash and the casual workers will receive less money per hour on weekends. Nothing else will change.

Even if you were right, and he did reduce the price, and thus increase sales, he's still not going to hire any additional staff: the existing staff will just be required to work harder, and longer (for less).

Any way you look at it, abolishing penalty rates won't create jobs.

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« Last Edit: Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:50pm by greggerypeccary »

GOP = Guardians Of Paedophiles

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crocodile

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #62 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:52pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 4:48pm:

... increased sales volumes by retail price reduction.

You haven't been listening: there won't be a retail price reduction.

The workers will be paid less, and the business owner will pocket the extra cash. That's it.

There will be no increase in sales volumes, as absolutely nothing will change for the customer.

Maybe in your fantasyland. Try and tell the world that any business owner when faced with an opportunity to increase sales volumes without penalty wouldn't take it. Dream on.

It has absolutely nothing to do with my own personal "utopias" or "fantasy-lands".

I'm just explaining how the real world operates. I'm being completely objective.

A business owner is not going to lower the price of coffee, just because penalty rates are abolished.

He'll pocket the extra cash and the casual workers will receive less money per hour on weekends. Nothing else will change.

Even if you were right, and he did reduce the price, and thus increase sales, he's still not going to hire any additional staff: the existing staff will just be required to work harder, and longer (for less).

Any way you look at it, abolishing penalty rates won't create jobs.

He will if any increase in volume is above the capacity of existing staff and the increase in revenue justifies it. Pretty fundamental logic really. If the opportunity to increase revenue is presented it will be taken with both arms.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Dnarever

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #63 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:55pm

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 4:48pm:

... increased sales volumes by retail price reduction.

You haven't been listening: there won't be a retail price reduction.

The workers will be paid less, and the business owner will pocket the extra cash. That's it.

There will be no increase in sales volumes, as absolutely nothing will change for the customer.

Maybe in your fantasyland. Try and tell the world that any business owner when faced with an opportunity to increase sales volumes without penalty wouldn't take it. Dream on.

an opportunity to increase sales volumes

The status quo stays the same - there is no opportunity to increase sales volumes. As soon as one reduces his/her price the rest have to follow - the result is the product would sell cheaper but everyones volume would remain the same.

They all know this so the result is that they all keep prices the same and take the profit.

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Dnarever

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #64 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:59pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Penalty rates are in place right now, and we don't pay double for coffee on Sundays

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition. There is no coffee regulator demanding that the price must be double on a Sunday because it's Sunday?

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition.

More because they often are able to sell about 10 times the volume on a week end in the right location.

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crocodile

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #65 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:14pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:55pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 4:48pm:

... increased sales volumes by retail price reduction.

You haven't been listening: there won't be a retail price reduction.

The workers will be paid less, and the business owner will pocket the extra cash. That's it.

There will be no increase in sales volumes, as absolutely nothing will change for the customer.

Maybe in your fantasyland. Try and tell the world that any business owner when faced with an opportunity to increase sales volumes without penalty wouldn't take it. Dream on.

an opportunity to increase sales volumes

The status quo stays the same - there is no opportunity to increase sales volumes. As soon as one reduces his/her price the rest have to follow - the result is the product would sell cheaper but everyones volume would remain the same.

They all know this so the result is that they all keep prices the same and take the profit.

You're neglecting the effect of lower pricing on aggregate demand.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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crocodile

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #66 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:15pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Penalty rates are in place right now, and we don't pay double for coffee on Sundays

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition. There is no coffee regulator demanding that the price must be double on a Sunday because it's Sunday?

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition.

More because they often are able to sell about 10 times the volume on a week end in the right location.

And even more if the price comes down.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #67 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:20pm

Swagman wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 3:02pm:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 2:13pm:

I was super-efficient

So what happened to make you champion inefficiency? Grin

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 2:13pm:

was super-efficient, and that my overall hourly rate of pay was actually lower, despite a nominally higher rate, due to MY efficiency.

You are making a good argument there for AWAs...

I don't - I champion decency, reason and fair play. Just because I am the Ace of aces doesn't mean that people shouldn't work for penalty rates. I had penalty rates included - usually there by Tuesday some time....

I worked under an agreement - with the basis the award rate of pay and payment for running costs.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Dnarever

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #68 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:27pm

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Penalty rates are in place right now, and we don't pay double for coffee on Sundays

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition. There is no coffee regulator demanding that the price must be double on a Sunday because it's Sunday?

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition.

More because they often are able to sell about 10 times the volume on a week end in the right location.

And even more if the price comes down.

I doubt it - Coffee drinkers buy coffee anyway, it isn't really a price decision and there is no likelihood that the price would come down at all.

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Dnarever

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #69 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:29pm

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:14pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:55pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 4:48pm:

... increased sales volumes by retail price reduction.

You haven't been listening: there won't be a retail price reduction.

The workers will be paid less, and the business owner will pocket the extra cash. That's it.

There will be no increase in sales volumes, as absolutely nothing will change for the customer.

Maybe in your fantasyland. Try and tell the world that any business owner when faced with an opportunity to increase sales volumes without penalty wouldn't take it. Dream on.

an opportunity to increase sales volumes

The status quo stays the same - there is no opportunity to increase sales volumes. As soon as one reduces his/her price the rest have to follow - the result is the product would sell cheaper but everyones volume would remain the same.

They all know this so the result is that they all keep prices the same and take the profit.

You're neglecting the effect of lower pricing on aggregate demand.

People don't tend to buy a second coffee and charging $4.30 instead of $4.50 is not going to make any difference.

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crocodile

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #70 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:35pm

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:27pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Penalty rates are in place right now, and we don't pay double for coffee on Sundays

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition. There is no coffee regulator demanding that the price must be double on a Sunday because it's Sunday?

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition.

More because they often are able to sell about 10 times the volume on a week end in the right location.

And even more if the price comes down.

I doubt it - Coffee drinkers buy coffee anyway, it isn't really a price decision and there is no likelihood that the price would come down at all.

Doubt if you want. If it's not a price decision why not charge $20 a cup.

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Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes.

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Its time

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #71 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:47pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:41pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 7:30pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 6:54pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 4:48pm:

... increased sales volumes by retail price reduction.

You haven't been listening: there won't be a retail price reduction.

The workers will be paid less, and the business owner will pocket the extra cash. That's it.

There will be no increase in sales volumes, as absolutely nothing will change for the customer.

Maybe in your fantasyland. Try and tell the world that any business owner when faced with an opportunity to increase sales volumes without penalty wouldn't take it. Dream on.

It has absolutely nothing to do with my own personal "utopias" or "fantasy-lands".

I'm just explaining how the real world operates. I'm being completely objective.

A business owner is not going to lower the price of coffee, just because penalty rates are abolished.

He'll pocket the extra cash and the casual workers will receive less money per hour on weekends. Nothing else will change.

Even if you were right, and he did reduce the price, and thus increase sales, he's still not going to hire any additional staff: the existing staff will just be required to work harder, and longer (for less).

Any way you look at it, abolishing penalty rates won't create jobs.

Dead right

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates Reply #72 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:50pm I like the comments made on Q&A today if they're going to look at penalty rates, they should also look at reducing the salaries and bonuses of all the upper mgmt and the exectutives
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John Smith

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #73 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:51pm

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:35pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:27pm:

crocodile wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 9:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 8:59pm:

Swagman wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 8^th, 2014 at 1:46pm:

Penalty rates are in place right now, and we don't pay double for coffee on Sundays

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition. There is no coffee regulator demanding that the price must be double on a Sunday because it's Sunday?

Because the price of a coffee is subject to competition.

More because they often are able to sell about 10 times the volume on a week end in the right location.

And even more if the price comes down.

I doubt it - Coffee drinkers buy coffee anyway, it isn't really a price decision and there is no likelihood that the price would come down at all.

Doubt if you want. If it's not a price decision why not charge $20 a cup.

coffee shops will charge what the market will pay .... if they could get away with charging $20, they would ....

it has already been established that the market will pay approx. $5 for a coffee, why would they reduce that just because they don't need to pay penalty rates?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Its time

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Re: The Liberal MP Was A Wing Nut On Penalty Rates
Reply #74 - Sep 8^th, 2014 at 10:53pm

Wouldn't people have less disposable income if they were working the same hours for no penalty rates? Wouldn't they then have less to spend on the products that the businesses are trying to flog off?

Employ more staff to do exactly what the staff they have now are achieving. Is there all of sudden going to be a mass influx of people with less money to spend. Back to drawing board, again Tony.

Is Tony's "plan" for the million jobs in 5 years lol

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