Australian Politics Forum - Ban beards to control Muslims

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 100476	Re: Ban beards to control Muslims Reply #15 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 5:29pm Soren wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 5:26pm: https://www.vipseats.com/images/zz%20top%20tickets.jpg Thanks, old chap - Lutherans too.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 116290 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ban beards to control Muslims Reply #16 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 6:14pm freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 4:49pm: A fake beard and sunnies do a good job of concealing a person's identity. As do face masks - which are of course not banned in France. Did someone say sunnies & a beard?
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Brian Ross

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Re: Ban beards to control Muslims
Reply #17 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 6:23pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:51pm:

Bobby, do you think what the Chinese authorities are doing will really solve the problems in Xinjiang Province or do you think it will exacerbate them by increasing resent and feelings of being oppressed by Beijing? Roll Eyes

The Chinese don't muck around.

They will fix the Muslim problem up easily.

Want to put some money on it? Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: Ban beards to control Muslims
Reply #18 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:16pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 6:23pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:51pm:

Bobby, do you think what the Chinese authorities are doing will really solve the problems in Xinjiang Province or do you think it will exacerbate them by increasing resent and feelings of being oppressed by Beijing? Roll Eyes

The Chinese don't muck around.

They will fix the Muslim problem up easily.

Want to put some money on it? Roll Eyes

No - I am not a gambling man.

I do know this:

The Chinese are just as ruthless as any Muslims.

That's the only language Muslims understand.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 45882	Re: Ban beards to control Muslims Reply #19 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:24pm When you're attempting to win the support of a rebellious population, Bobby which do you think is more effective? Something which reduces resentment or something that increases it? Which do you think ruthlessness will do?
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Bobby.

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Re: Ban beards to control Muslims
Reply #20 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:24pm:

When you're attempting to win the support of a rebellious population, Bobby which do you think is more effective? Something which reduces resentment or something that increases it?

Which do you think ruthlessness will do? Roll Eyes

Saddam was absolutely ruthless with them -
mass executions of tens of 1000s in the Iraqi desert - etc.

He had them well under control with a secular state until his country was invaded.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Ban beards to control Muslims
Reply #21 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:30pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:24pm:

When you're attempting to win the support of a rebellious population, Bobby which do you think is more effective? Something which reduces resentment or something that increases it?

Which do you think ruthlessness will do? Roll Eyes

Saddam was absolutely ruthless with them -
mass executions of tens of 1000s in the Iraqi desert - etc.

He had them well under control with a secular state until his country was invaded.

His control was at the best of times precarious and large swathes of his nation's countryside was not directly under his control because of his ruthlessness, Bobby.

Ruthlessness works in the short term but it will not stop the breeding of resentment and resentment is what drives rebellion. This is counter-insurgency theory at its most basic level. The objective is to win the "hearts and minds" of the populace to support you, not the rebels/insurgents/militants/terrorists/etc. Roll Eyes

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Datalife

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Re: Ban beards to control Muslims
Reply #22 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:49pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:30pm:

His control was at the best of times precarious and large swathes of his nation's countryside was not directly under his control because of his ruthlessness, Bobby.

I don't know about precarious, even as you say at the best of times you will need to provide some sort of reference for that. In my estimation at the best of times his position was not precarious at all, but pretty well unassailable.

But yes some parts of Iraq were not directly under his control, hence the draining of the marshlands and the use of WMD.

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freediver

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Re: Ban beards to control Muslims
Reply #23 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:53pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:24pm:

When you're attempting to win the support of a rebellious population, Bobby which do you think is more effective? Something which reduces resentment or something that increases it?

Which do you think ruthlessness will do? Roll Eyes

I didn't realise Saddam was trying to win their support by slaughtering them. Perhaps he was just a little confused eh brian?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 116290 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ban beards to control Muslims Reply #24 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 8:01pm
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Ban beards to control Muslims Reply #25 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 8:02pm freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:53pm: I didn't realise Saddam was trying to win their support by slaughtering them. Perhaps he was just a little confused eh brian? Neither did Brian if you bothered to read his actual posts. speaking of confused...
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Karnal

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Re: Ban beards to control Muslims
Reply #26 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 8:02pm

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:24pm:

When you're attempting to win the support of a rebellious population, Bobby which do you think is more effective? Something which reduces resentment or something that increases it?

Which do you think ruthlessness will do? Roll Eyes

I didn't realise Saddam was trying to win their support by slaughtering them. Perhaps he was just a little confused eh brian?

Brian was making the point that Saddam didn’t win them over, FD, but you’ve made a great point about confusion.

Shurely shome mishtake, eh?

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Brian Ross

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Re: Ban beards to control Muslims
Reply #27 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 8:46pm

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:24pm:

When you're attempting to win the support of a rebellious population, Bobby which do you think is more effective? Something which reduces resentment or something that increases it?

Which do you think ruthlessness will do? Roll Eyes

I didn't realise Saddam was trying to win their support by slaughtering them. Perhaps he was just a little confused eh brian?

All rulers rule with the consent of the ruled, FD. Sometimes it's called the "Mandate from Heaven", sometimes it's called the "mandate of the people", even dictators cannot rule unless their people accept their rule. When they don't, you get rebellion and revolution. In Iraq, Saddam suffered several rebellions, before and after the 1991 Gulf War. When the US invaded in 2003, his regime toppled very quickly.

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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: Ban beards to control Muslims
Reply #28 - Aug 9^th, 2014 at 9:22pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 8:46pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:53pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 7:24pm:

When you're attempting to win the support of a rebellious population, Bobby which do you think is more effective? Something which reduces resentment or something that increases it?

Which do you think ruthlessness will do? Roll Eyes

I didn't realise Saddam was trying to win their support by slaughtering them. Perhaps he was just a little confused eh brian?

All rulers rule with the consent of the ruled, FD. Sometimes it's called the "Mandate from Heaven", sometimes it's called the "mandate of the people", even dictators cannot rule unless their people accept their rule. When they don't, you get rebellion and revolution. In Iraq, Saddam suffered several rebellions, before and after the 1991 Gulf War. When the US invaded in 2003, his regime toppled very quickly.

Sometimes it's called "do as you're told or get a bullet in the back of the head".

Still, each to their own eh Brian?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Team Murdoch

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Re: Ban beards to control Muslims
Reply #29 - Aug 21^st, 2014 at 7:46pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2014 at 2:53pm:

They will fix the Muslim problem up easily.

The are more Muslims in China than there are people in Australia. There are 36,000 mosques in China.

In fact, China was run largely by Muslims for centuries.

Quote:

Song Dynasty

By the time of the Song Dynasty, Muslims had come to play a major role in the import/export industry. The office of Director General of Shipping was consistently held by a Muslim during this period...

Yuan Dynasty

During the Mongol-founded Yuan Dynasty (1271–1368), large numbers of Muslims settled in China...Hundreds of thousands of Muslims immigrants were recruited and forcibly relocated from Western and Central Asia by the Mongols to help them administer their rapidly expanding empire.The Mongols used Persian, Arab and Buddhist Uyghur administrators, generically known as semu [色目]("various eye color") to act as officers of taxation and finance. Muslims headed many corporations in China in the early Yuan period. Muslim scholars were brought to work on calendar making and astronomy. The architect Yeheidie'erding (Amir al-Din) learned from Han architecture and helped to design the construction of the capital of the Yuan Dynasty, Dadu, otherwise known as Khanbaliq or Khanbaligh, the predecessor of present-day Beijing...

Ming Dynasty

During the following Ming Dynasty, Muslims continued to be influential around government circles. Six of Ming Dynasty founder Zhu Yuanzhang's most trusted generals are said to have been Muslim, including Lan Yu who, in 1388, led a strong imperial Ming army out of the Great Wall and won a decisive victory over the Mongols in Mongolia, effectively ending the Mongol dream to re-conquer China. Zhu Yuanzhang also wrote a praise of Islam, the The Hundred-word Eulogy. It was recorded that "His Majesty ordered to have mosques built in Xijing and Nanjing [the capital cities], and in southern Yunnan, Fujian and Guangdong. His Majesty also personally wrote baizizan [a eulogy] in praise of the Prophet's virtues."...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_China

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