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Poll closed Poll
Question: Religion has no place in public life
*** This poll has now closed ***


Religion is private and personal    
  18 (40.9%)
Politics and religion are inseparable    
  9 (20.5%)
Religion is false    
  5 (11.4%)
Evolution is real    
  6 (13.6%)
Atheism is true    
  6 (13.6%)




Total votes: 44
« Created by: vikaryan on: Jun 25th, 2014 at 2:12pm »

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Religion has no place in public life (Read 7898 times)
vikaryan
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #90 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 3:09pm
 
The logically inevitable fact is, if the Christian God existed, we would all hear from God himself the same message of salvation, and we would all hear, straight from God, all the same answers to all the same questions. The Chinese would have heard it. The Native Americans would have heard it. Everyone today, everywhere on Earth, would be hearing it, and their records would show everyone else in history had heard it, too. Sure, maybe some of us would still balk or reject that message. But we would still have the information. Because the only way to make an informed choice is to have the required information. So a God who wanted us to make an informed choice would give us all the information we needed, and not entrust fallible, sinful, contradictory agents to convey a confused mess of ambiguous, poorly supported claims. Therefore, the fact that God hasn't spoken to us directly, and hasn't given us all the same, clear message, and the same, clear answers, is enough to prove Christianity false.


—Richard Carrier, Why I Am Not a Christian (2006)
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it_is_the_light
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #91 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 3:58pm
 
Grand Duke Imam Mahdi wrote on Jun 28th, 2014 at 1:55pm:
Well clearly the braincells have upped sticks and left this thread.


many blessings

you portray an air of distinction

.....at least half of it ,

carry on regardless

namaste

- ; ) =
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ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : )  ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯
it_is_the_light it_is_the_light Christ+Light Christ+Light  
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vikaryan
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #92 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 5:11pm
 
The latest Gallup poll on evolution

National Center for Science Education-3 Jun 2014

There were no surprises in the latest Gallup poll on public opinion about evolution in the United States. Asked in May 2014 "[w]hich of the following statements comes closest to your views on the origin and development of human beings," 31% of the respondents accepted "Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process," 19% accepted "Human beings have developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God had no part in this process," and 42% accepted "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so."

The same question has been used by Gallup to poll about evolution since 1982. According to Gallup, "The percentage of the U.S. population choosing the creationist perspective as closest to their own view has fluctuated in a narrow range between 40% and 47% since the question's inception. There is little indication of a sustained downward trend in the proportion of the U.S. population who hold a creationist view of human origins. At the same time, the percentage of Americans who adhere to a strict secularist viewpoint — that humans evolved over time, with God having no part in this process — has doubled since 1999."
As usual, acceptance of the creationist option was associated with a lower degree of education, a higher rate of church attendance, and age.
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vikaryan
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #93 - Jun 28th, 2014 at 5:15pm
 
UK Government Exalts Evolution, Outlaws Creationism


The Huffington Post  | By Yasmine Hafiz
Posted: 06/25/2014 12:28 pm EDT

The United Kingdom government has banned the teaching of creationism as a scientific theory in free schools and academies, which are the equivalent of a 'public' school in the United States. The move was done in the interests of having a "broad and balanced curriculum," according to UPI.

The remarkable decision was part of a document published on June 9th that laid out new clauses for church academies and stated that creationism is not widely accepted as a scientific theory.

The clauses said that creationism:

Quote:
is rejected by most mainstream churches and religious traditions, including the major providers of state funded schools such as the [Anglican] [Catholic] Churches, as well as the scientific community. It does not accord with the scientific consensus or the very large body of established scientific evidence; nor does it accurately and consistently employ the scientific method, and as such it should not be presented to pupils at the Academy as a scientific theory.


For the purposes of this document, creationism is defined as, "any doctrine or theory which holds that natural biological processes cannot account for the history, diversity, and complexity of life on earth and therefore rejects the scientific theory of evolution."

Pavan Dhaliwal, head of public affairs for the British Humanist Association, told Politics UK, "Coupled with the fact that maintained schools must follow the national curriculum, which from September will include a module on evolution at the primary level, we believe that this means that the objectives of the campaign are largely met."

Thousands of schools in America that received public funding still teach creationism as an "alternative" to evolution, according to Slate. Such practices clearly have an impact on the country, as a recent Gallup poll showed that over 40% of Americans hold the creationist belief that God created humanity as it currently exists a mere 10,000 years ago.
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We fight a holy war against the fat and the corrupt and the sinful and the unbelieving!
 
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #94 - Jun 30th, 2014 at 8:47am
 
maybe this world is another planet's hell
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #95 - Jul 1st, 2014 at 9:25am
 
To start with, who else is off the hook, or will be? What other companies can ignore which other laws on what real or dreamed-up religious grounds? That is something the majority decision in Hobby Lobby leaves shockingly undefined. Ginsburg called it “a decision of startling breadth,” one that could allow for-profit corporations to “opt out of any law (saving only tax laws) they judge incompatible with their sincerely held religious beliefs.” Alito, in his opinion, denies this; so does Anthony Kennedy, in a concurrence. But neither does so persuasively: their reassurance about the protections against what Ginsburg calls “the havoc the Court’s judgment can introduce” come down to, in Alito’s case, shrugs about how nothing alarming has shown up on the Court’s docket yet and, in Kennedy’s, the belief that everyone will be sensible about this. But if there hasn’t been a wave of cases there also hasn’t been a precedent like this—and now there is. And good sense has never been much of a reliable restraint. This suggests that the majority is either being disingenuous about how broad its ruling is or is blind to its own logic. As Ginsburg notes, religious objections to, say, vaccines are neither as theoretical nor as easily put aside as the majority pretends.

Can a for-profit corporation even have religious beliefs
—can it be a person acting out of sacred conviction, in the sense of either the First Amendment or the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act (a law Hobby Lobby cites)? Alito doesn’t see why not; it doesn’t seem fair to him that the owners of a business should have to forgo either identifying its religious rights with their own “or the benefits, available to their competitors, of operating as corporations.” But corporations create a legal separation between owners and businesses that protects them in many ways; why is the upside a presumptive right and not any downside?

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2014/06/a-very-bad-ruling-on-hobby-lobby.html
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #96 - Jul 1st, 2014 at 10:35am
 
The major legal difference, legally, between a not-for-profit corp and a for-profit corp is that the for-profit corp is subject to income tax and a not-for-profit corp is not subject to income tax. Profit is defined as the residual of revenues and expense. All corporations, whether for-profit or not-for-profit are profit maximizers, in the sense that revenue must exceed expense, over time, in order for the corporation to continue operating. I state this, using the standard economic and accounting and IRS definitions of profit, loss, revenue and expense and "profit maximizer". I haven't ascribed any new meaning. Thus, churches are profit maximizers, charities are profit maximizers, and labor unions are still profit maximizers. What churches and charities and labor unions don't do is pay their taxes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/06/30/hobby-lobby-and-the-legal-rights-of-people-organized-as-corporations/?commentID=washingtonpost.com/ECHO/item/1404158546-793-804
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We fight a holy war against the fat and the corrupt and the sinful and the unbelieving!
 
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #97 - Jul 1st, 2014 at 5:02pm
 
Citizens United, the gift that keeps on giving…
  Angry

"A federal law called the Religious Freedom Restoration Act was written to protect individuals’ religious freedoms — and on Thursday, the Supreme Court ruled that, under RFRA, corporations count as people: their religious freedoms also get protection."

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/30/5857158/the-supreme-court-ruling-in-three-sentences

http://lineartocircular.tumblr.com/post/90360249173/the-supreme-courts-hobby-lobby-ruling-in-three
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #98 - Jul 2nd, 2014 at 12:03pm
 
Like Joyce, Martin is concerned that the ruling will open the door to more nefarious and discriminatory trends.

"For me it's a pretty troubling precedent," he said. "I think about the rights for sexual minorities. It's still an uphill battle when it comes to employment practices. This sets up one more potential obstacle for having employers deny the rights of sexual minorities."

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/06/hobby_lobby_supreme_court_affo_1.html
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #99 - Jul 2nd, 2014 at 2:13pm
 
What's next? Islamic law?


Anyone who believes that Hobby Lobby should be allowed to control what their employees can cover on their health plan because of “deeply held Christian beliefs” by the CEO should also believe that a company owned by Muslims should be allowed to treat their employees with Sharia law.

http://letterstotheeditorblog.dallasnews.com/2014/03/if-hobby-lobby-wins-whats-next-islamic-law.html/
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #100 - Jul 2nd, 2014 at 3:40pm
 
vikaryan wrote on Jul 2nd, 2014 at 2:13pm:
What's next? Islamic law?


Anyone who believes that Hobby Lobby should be allowed to control what their employees can cover on their health plan because of “deeply held Christian beliefs” by the CEO should also believe that a company owned by Muslims should be allowed to treat their employees with Sharia law.

http://letterstotheeditorblog.dallasnews.com/2014/03/if-hobby-lobby-wins-whats-next-islamic-law.html/


Largely ignored is the fact Hobby Lobby is a significant player in a global economy that has separated markets from morality. Even as it is a Christian-themed brand, it operates in a decisively “secular” economic world. 

Hobby Lobby—like every chain store of its kind—participates in an economy that is no longer “religious” or even “moral.” That is, it participates in an economy that arose based on the rejection of the subordination of markets embedded within, and subject to, social and moral structures. This “Great Transformation” was detailed and described with great acuity by Karl Polanyi in his masterful 1944 book of that title.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/hobby-lobby-has-won-but-have-we/
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #101 - Jul 2nd, 2014 at 6:42pm
 
A funny thing is that the 'progressives', while stringently anti-religious, adopt a number of Christianity's tenets in their utopian vision.
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #102 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 10:14am
 
The arts and crafts retailer Hobby Lobby proudly touts itself as a Christian company that puts people over profits. However, some staunch Christians say there's a gaping hole in that claim -- namely, China.

Products bearing "Made in China" labels are found all over the shelves at Hobby Lobby, evidence that some of its wares come from Chinese factories that have a reputation for labor rights violations and rock-bottom wages. Employees at these facilities often end up working grueling hours in prison-like conditions and never earn enough to escape poverty.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/01/hobby-lobby-christian_n_5545618.html
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #103 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 10:27am
 
Now, of course, a huge number of American companies outsource labor to China, and thus help prop up this shameful status quo. But very few of these American companies simultaneously trumpet themselves as "Christian businesses," arguing in court that providing employees with health insurance covering contraceptives violates their religious beliefs. How can this ObamaCare mandate be so foul to Hobby Lobby executives, while they say very little about Chinese policies forcing women to have abortions against their wills? Is abortion wrong only when the terminated life is American?

The most glaring inconsistency between Hobby Lobby's ethical proclamations and its business decisions concerns the matter of religious liberty. The craft store chain is hailed by conservatives as standing up to Uncle Sam and fighting for religious freedom. Yet Hobby Lobby imports billions of dollars worth of bric-a-brac from a nation that denies 1.35 billion citizens freedom of worship.

If Hobby Lobby was concerned with religious freedoms — not just those of conservative American Christians — it would quit doing business in China.

http://theweek.com/article/index/263225/stop-calling-hobby-lobby-a-christian-business
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Re: Religion has no place in public life
Reply #104 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 10:30am
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jul 2nd, 2014 at 6:42pm:
A funny thing is that the 'progressives', while stringently anti-religious, adopt a number of Christianity's tenets in their utopian vision.



How is that funny?
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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)
 
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