Australian Politics Forum - Abbott worst PM in Australia history

Grendel

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #120 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:53pm

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 3:23pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:45pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:54am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:02am:

Rudd and Gillard both never finished a full term in office & Rudd was PM twice in those six years. If there is ever a situation where Abbott gets knifed (not stands down), then he may be considered a less than successful PM. But even then, he won't be up there with Rudd & Gillard as the worst. Keating is well ahead of Abbott as worst and Rudd/Gillard top the list.

Abbott - 60% disapproval. Only matched by Gillard at her lowest. Unlike Gillard though, Abbott's got to this level despite the media, not because of it. It's all his own doing.

Despite the media?

If we're to judge by "worst", we can compare broken promises, proven lies or obvious gaffes. Abbott comes out worse than Rudd and Gillard on all these measures. To assert that Abbott is somehow better is just a biased assessment with no supporting evidence.

I'd prefer something substantial; like bad policy or bad implementation or a dysfunctional government party room, etc... gee I wonder who is streets ahead now then eh?

It is foolish to cherrypick those areas where in your opinion the Liberals may yet be doing okay when these are not the criteria that the wider community appear to be using to formulate their opinions. Numerous broken promises have harmed the Liberal party's standing, several proven lies have harmed Abbott's, and Abbott's performance in general has been lacklustre. It is not for no reason that the Coalition are behind in the polls.

I'll make valid comments on what I like thanks.
Most parties are inevitably behind after tough budgets... how old are you? 7?

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Tony

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #121 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:58pm

Budget is still ongoing—half the Bills making up the Budget haven’t been introduced into the HoR yet!

Howard’s first Budget was seen as tough but fair and right. He actually got a lift in the polls!

This Budget is a botch and is seen as unfair. Confidence slumped after its introduction and wallets and purses slammed shut. If they aren’t real careful there will be a major recession.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history Reply #122 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:59pm Grendel wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:53pm: Most parties are inevitably behind after tough budgets... how old are you? 7? but Abbott was behind long before the budget came out how old are you?
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Bam

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #123 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 11:26pm

Grendel wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:53pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 3:23pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:45pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:54am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:02am:

Rudd and Gillard both never finished a full term in office & Rudd was PM twice in those six years. If there is ever a situation where Abbott gets knifed (not stands down), then he may be considered a less than successful PM. But even then, he won't be up there with Rudd & Gillard as the worst. Keating is well ahead of Abbott as worst and Rudd/Gillard top the list.

Abbott - 60% disapproval. Only matched by Gillard at her lowest. Unlike Gillard though, Abbott's got to this level despite the media, not because of it. It's all his own doing.

Despite the media?

If we're to judge by "worst", we can compare broken promises, proven lies or obvious gaffes. Abbott comes out worse than Rudd and Gillard on all these measures. To assert that Abbott is somehow better is just a biased assessment with no supporting evidence.

I'd prefer something substantial; like bad policy or bad implementation or a dysfunctional government party room, etc... gee I wonder who is streets ahead now then eh?

It is foolish to cherrypick those areas where in your opinion the Liberals may yet be doing okay when these are not the criteria that the wider community appear to be using to formulate their opinions. Numerous broken promises have harmed the Liberal party's standing, several proven lies have harmed Abbott's, and Abbott's performance in general has been lacklustre. It is not for no reason that the Coalition are behind in the polls.

I'll make valid comments on what I like thanks.

I would prefer that you stick to the facts.

Quote:

Most parties are inevitably behind after tough budgets... how old are you? 7?

So the budget was handed down last November, was it? Roll Eyes

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21905 Gender:	Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history Reply #124 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 11:27pm St George of the Garden wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 4:12pm: Bam—one other point: 4. Who do they change too? Turnbull only if they really are on the rocks, so if not Turnbull—who? Good point
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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #125 - Jun 24^th, 2014 at 12:44am

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 11:27pm:

St George of the Garden wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 4:12pm:

Bam—one other point:

4. Who do they change too? Turnbull only if they really are on the rocks, so if not Turnbull—who?

Good point

Grappler Party open for membership and nominations for ALL seats - even if we don't make it, we'll let everyone know we were there and prepared to put up rather than shut up.

Not going to namby-pamby around and show weakness by only trying for a few Senate seats etc, and not challenging the bastards full-on.

All or nothing!

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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DaS Energy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3962 Gender:	Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history Reply #126 - Jun 24^th, 2014 at 1:16am Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 9:28pm: Abbott is better than Rudd or Gillard so he can't be the worst. As far as number of verbatim deceits he certainly is in front!
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aquascoot

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #127 - Jun 24^th, 2014 at 7:04am

The budget wont be his downfall (though his selling of it might).
he shouldn't go down the route of trying to weasel out of it.
people don't mind pain if you are honest.
Just say, "this is your medicine, take it, its good for you"
people will respect that.
deep down they knew Rudd and Gillard and their reckless spending was unsustainable.
What is unsustainable for tony is to try and PRETEND it wont hurt.
Chemo always hurts, slashing out a cancer with sharp steel hurts.
But people will cop those, they'll line up for it and they'll thank you if they can see its for their own good.
And solving the "debt and deficit disaster" is for their own good and they know it.
Get Morrison to sell it Wink

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 156623 Gender:	Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history Reply #128 - Jun 24^th, 2014 at 8:08am Soren wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 9:28pm: Abbott is better than Rudd or Gillard so he can't be the worst. What colour is the sky in your world?
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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #129 - Jun 24^th, 2014 at 8:27am

Grendel wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:50pm:

Get real... Conroy the Greens and the ALP in general wanted to silence the media from scrutinising them. Conservatives have to put up with media bias but the luvvies who cannot tolerate dissent wanted to put and end to it.

Conroy the Greens and the ALP in general wanted to silence the media from scrutinising them

How do you come to that conclusion ?

Conservatives have to put up with media bias

Yes they never complained once at the unreserved support from the main stream media.

But don't they chuck a tizzy about any unbiased media reporting which they perceive as being anti Liberal.

Wait a minute haven't the conservatives been going on about the ABC for a few decades and even the ABC at large come out in their favour.

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Ex Dame Pansi Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 24168	Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history Reply #130 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 6:45am
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Tony

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #131 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 7:50am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 24^th, 2014 at 7:04am:

The budget wont be his downfall (though his selling of it might).
he shouldn't go down the route of trying to weasel out of it.
people don't mind pain if you are honest.
Just say, "this is your medicine, take it, its good for you"
people will respect that.
deep down they knew Rudd and Gillard and their reckless spending was unsustainable.
What is unsustainable for tony is to try and PRETEND it wont hurt.
Chemo always hurts, slashing out a cancer with sharp steel hurts.
But people will cop those, they'll line up for it and they'll thank you if they can see its for their own good.
And solving the "debt and deficit disaster" is for their own good and they know it.
Get Morrison to sell it Wink

There is no debt and deficit disaster. Revenue needs to be boosted—undo the last 2-3 tax cuts, get rid of the tax expenditures or a mix of both.

The reason the Budget is so unpopular is because it is a blatant lie and blatantly unfair. It clearly is class warfare by the rich against the poor.

Even John Edwards, RBA board member agrees with me:

Spending is not the problem.

RBA board member on Lateline last night demolished the entire justification for the Budget and “Budget Emergency.”

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2014/s4032413.htm

This Budget, like Abbott is a turd and you cannot polish a turd no matter how hard you try.

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #132 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 8:43am

Tony wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 7:50am:

people don't mind pain if you are honest.

I'm sure they will be well p1ssed off and rightly so.

People left with no unemployment support will mind. They will mind because Tony keeps wasting billions of dollars on fighter jets and watching the politicians screw them into the ground whilst they take more and more from the pie.

They will mind when they are told to pay exorbitant uni and TAFE fees whilst Abbott's daughter gets her course for free from Liberal Party donations.

The poor will always mind when the bankers, the miners and big business get tax breaks. People will mind when irresponsible companies get bailed out only to go down the same path leading to more bailouts.

People don't mind if the pain is shared right across the board, it's not and never will be under a right wing government.

Abbott is a self confessed liar. He can't be honest even with himself let alone the people.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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aquascoot

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #133 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 8:59am

Tony wrote on Jun 25^th, 2014 at 7:50am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 24^th, 2014 at 7:04am:

The budget wont be his downfall (though his selling of it might).
he shouldn't go down the route of trying to weasel out of it.
people don't mind pain if you are honest.
Just say, "this is your medicine, take it, its good for you"
people will respect that.
deep down they knew Rudd and Gillard and their reckless spending was unsustainable.
What is unsustainable for tony is to try and PRETEND it wont hurt.
Chemo always hurts, slashing out a cancer with sharp steel hurts.
But people will cop those, they'll line up for it and they'll thank you if they can see its for their own good.
And solving the "debt and deficit disaster" is for their own good and they know it.
Get Morrison to sell it Wink

There is no debt and deficit disaster. Revenue needs to be boosted—undo the last 2-3 tax cuts, get rid of the tax expenditures or a mix of both.

The reason the Budget is so unpopular is because it is a blatant lie and blatantly unfair. It clearly is class warfare by the rich against the poor.

Even John Edwards, RBA board member agrees with me:

Spending is not the problem.

RBA board member on Lateline last night demolished the entire justification for the Budget and “Budget Emergency.”

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2014/s4032413.htm

This Budget, like Abbott is a turd and you cannot polish a turd no matter how hard you try.

There is a debt and deficit disaster in the minds of the public and you cant undo that, and that's all that counts.
Swanny kept promising surpluses but could not deliver.
In the minds of the public, therefore, BOTH sides are promoting the idea of surplus being a good idea.

We did well in the GFC not because of swans spending but because our major trading partners in asia kept growing.
This , too, will come to an end.
If it does, and if abbott commits to the big spends on gonski, NDIS, hospitals, infrastructure...then there will be a "debt and deficit disaster"
Its hard to argue with the fact that labor has left abbott paying a billion a month in dead interest on the debt.
The public understand this, they know that interest on your credit card is dead money.
That's the turd you cant polish my friend

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #134 - Jun 25^th, 2014 at 9:00am

aquascoot wrote on Jun 24^th, 2014 at 7:04am:

The budget wont be his downfall (though his selling of it might).
he shouldn't go down the route of trying to weasel out of it.
people don't mind pain if you are honest.
Just say, "this is your medicine, take it, its good for you"
people will respect that.
deep down they knew Rudd and Gillard and their reckless spending was unsustainable.
What is unsustainable for tony is to try and PRETEND it wont hurt.
Chemo always hurts, slashing out a cancer with sharp steel hurts.
But people will cop those, they'll line up for it and they'll thank you if they can see its for their own good.
And solving the "debt and deficit disaster" is for their own good and they know it.
Get Morrison to sell it Wink

Its not for the good of anyone of low income . . . .

SOB

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