Australian Politics Forum - Abbott worst PM in Australia history

Kat

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #105 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 2:01pm

teddybear wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 2:00pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:55pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:52pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 11:32am:

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:54am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:02am:

Rudd and Gillard both never finished a full term in office & Rudd was PM twice in those six years. If there is ever a situation where Abbott gets knifed (not stands down), then he may be considered a less than successful PM. But even then, he won't be up there with Rudd & Gillard as the worst. Keating is well ahead of Abbott as worst and Rudd/Gillard top the list.

Abbott - 60% disapproval. Only matched by Gillard at her lowest. Unlike Gillard though, Abbott's got to this level despite the media, not because of it. It's all his own doing.

If we're to judge by "worst", we can compare broken promises, proven lies or obvious gaffes. Abbott comes out worse than Rudd and Gillard on all these measures. To assert that Abbott is somehow better is just a biased assessment with no supporting evidence.

If you honestly think Gillard's problems were because of the media, then all hope is lost for you!!! Grin

Well most of them smacking were.

And what weren't, were caused by that corrupt, lying pack of fascist maggots that you support.

Those who continue to support this shower of faeces are traitors, fools, or both. Nothing more.

Most of Julia's problems were internal (Rudd) or self inflicted.
She was a great deputy but fell apart as PM due to her sticking to what I can only think was the spin doctors tactics.

Why do you bother with el grubbo grendal it's person! Wink

Why don't you smack off, sock-troll?

You should have been banned (again) by now.

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Datalife

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #106 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 2:03pm

Grendel wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:55pm:

Most of Julia's problems were internal (Rudd) or self inflicted.
She was a great deputy but fell apart as PM due to her sticking to what I can only think was the spin doctors tactics.

Indeed, imagine if she had a Peta Credlin instead of John McTernan.

The real Julia lol.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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Datalife

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #107 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 2:05pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 2:01pm:

Gillard was one of our greatest PMs.

Achieved heaps despite backstabbing from Rudd & his group and a totally negative opposition and a hung Parliament. Yet pushed through a huge reform agenda. We were leaders, the envied, the wonder economy.

Now we are rapidly approaching pariah nation status and Abbott is widely regarded as a joke inside and outside Australia.

Pariah nation status? When you over egg your abuse you end up looking like a dill.

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"If they’re out there in the high seas, what you would do is seek to turn them back through the agency of the Australian Navy".

Kevin Rudd on 2GB, July 12, 2007

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teddybear

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #108 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 2:06pm

Kat wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 2:01pm:

teddybear wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 2:00pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:55pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:52pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 11:32am:

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:54am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:02am:

Rudd and Gillard both never finished a full term in office & Rudd was PM twice in those six years. If there is ever a situation where Abbott gets knifed (not stands down), then he may be considered a less than successful PM. But even then, he won't be up there with Rudd & Gillard as the worst. Keating is well ahead of Abbott as worst and Rudd/Gillard top the list.

Abbott - 60% disapproval. Only matched by Gillard at her lowest. Unlike Gillard though, Abbott's got to this level despite the media, not because of it. It's all his own doing.

If we're to judge by "worst", we can compare broken promises, proven lies or obvious gaffes. Abbott comes out worse than Rudd and Gillard on all these measures. To assert that Abbott is somehow better is just a biased assessment with no supporting evidence.

If you honestly think Gillard's problems were because of the media, then all hope is lost for you!!! Grin

Well most of them smacking were.

And what weren't, were caused by that corrupt, lying pack of fascist maggots that you support.

Those who continue to support this shower of faeces are traitors, fools, or both. Nothing more.

Most of Julia's problems were internal (Rudd) or self inflicted.
She was a great deputy but fell apart as PM due to her sticking to what I can only think was the spin doctors tactics.

Why do you bother with el grubbo grendal it's person! Wink

Why don't you smack off, sock-troll?

You should have been banned (again) by now.

Bit touchy today jimmy Grin

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Bam

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #109 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 3:00pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 12:05pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 11:32am:

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:54am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:02am:

Rudd and Gillard both never finished a full term in office & Rudd was PM twice in those six years. If there is ever a situation where Abbott gets knifed (not stands down), then he may be considered a less than successful PM. But even then, he won't be up there with Rudd & Gillard as the worst. Keating is well ahead of Abbott as worst and Rudd/Gillard top the list.

Abbott - 60% disapproval. Only matched by Gillard at her lowest. Unlike Gillard though, Abbott's got to this level despite the media, not because of it. It's all his own doing.

If we're to judge by "worst", we can compare broken promises, proven lies or obvious gaffes. Abbott comes out worse than Rudd and Gillard on all these measures. To assert that Abbott is somehow better is just a biased assessment with no supporting evidence.

If you honestly think Gillard's problems were because of the media, then all hope is lost for you!!! Grin

Hope is already lost for you. You refuse to admit that Abbott has problems of his own making.

Oh, and another point - exclamation marks are not a substitute for rational argument.

All the media did was to highlight Gillard's numerous failings - they certainly didn't cause them. That didn't stop Conroy from trying to go all Stalinist on the media in his attempts to censor the bad news!

Your grip on reality is tenuous at best.

All that was proposed was making the print media accountable. I see no harm in putting in place laws that would make the print media accountable if they printed blatant lies. The broadcast media have had the same rules in place for years and they can still broadcast what they want - it just that if they tell lies they can be brought to account.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #110 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 3:14pm

fractalign wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:05pm:

I am just wondering when Abbott will be forced to stand down and if he will go willingly or put up a fight. I would love to see a Leader ship scuffle like Gillard Rudd. The only thing keeping him in as PM at the moment is his blind ignorance of how much the Australian people dispise him and the mob mentality of his own party.

Don't for one minute think that the likes of Malcom Turnbull and Julie Bishop are not concerned that his belligerence is not trashing the Coalition Brand and that they could indeed do a better job.

I give him another year before the party comes to its senses and asks him to step aside. If he refuses I give the party another year before it faces electoral defeat and we are lumped with a shambolic Labor party again.
Even so I bet the Australian people are looking back on Gillard and Rudd with tearful nostalgia and wishing they had not voted this party in. I knew that this would be the result of a Coalition government, I also knew that had Labor been retained the country would be facing bankruptcy by now.

Either way damned if you do damned if you don't.
It does not matter which one is in power they are both equally incompetent when it comes to running the nation.
I think a 12 year old girl guides group could do a better job !

We've had media speculation about Abbott's leadership already, but IMO this is premature. It would take several months of sustained bad opinion polling before the backbenchers of the Liberal party started getting restless. Gillard weathered bad polling for more than two years and survived one spill before being defeated at another. It's reasonable to guess that Abbott will also hang on for some time if the polls remain bad for the Liberals.

The real dilemmas for the Liberals are:
(1) Do they change leader at all? They lambasted Labor for changing their leader twice in six years. For the Liberals to do the same at the drop of a few bad polls smacks of hypocrisy.
(2) If a change is on the cards, do they move on Abbott sooner or later? Changing sooner would give a new leader more time to become established, a later change would give Abbott more time to repair his standing with the electorate.
(3) Will Abbott step down willingly or must he be pushed?

My guess - they won't make any move this year, hoping for better polls. I think they are pinning their hopes on the Royal Commission into union corruption in the hopes that they can find something to pin on Shorten - while also quietly hoping that ICAC doesn't reveal other matters of corruption that can be linked to Abbott or other senior Liberals.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #111 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 3:23pm

Grendel wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:45pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:54am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:02am:

Rudd and Gillard both never finished a full term in office & Rudd was PM twice in those six years. If there is ever a situation where Abbott gets knifed (not stands down), then he may be considered a less than successful PM. But even then, he won't be up there with Rudd & Gillard as the worst. Keating is well ahead of Abbott as worst and Rudd/Gillard top the list.

Abbott - 60% disapproval. Only matched by Gillard at her lowest. Unlike Gillard though, Abbott's got to this level despite the media, not because of it. It's all his own doing.

Despite the media?

If we're to judge by "worst", we can compare broken promises, proven lies or obvious gaffes. Abbott comes out worse than Rudd and Gillard on all these measures. To assert that Abbott is somehow better is just a biased assessment with no supporting evidence.

I'd prefer something substantial; like bad policy or bad implementation or a dysfunctional government party room, etc... gee I wonder who is streets ahead now then eh?

It is foolish to cherrypick those areas where in your opinion the Liberals may yet be doing okay when these are not the criteria that the wider community appear to be using to formulate their opinions. Numerous broken promises have harmed the Liberal party's standing, several proven lies have harmed Abbott's, and Abbott's performance in general has been lacklustre. It is not for no reason that the Coalition are behind in the polls.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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St George of the Garden Gold Member Offline http://tinyurl.com/n 3o8m2x Posts: 9809 Gender:	Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history Reply #112 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 4:12pm Bam—one other point: 4. Who do they change too? Turnbull only if they really are on the rocks, so if not Turnbull—who?
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Kat

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #113 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 5:55pm

teddybear wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 2:06pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 2:01pm:

teddybear wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 2:00pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:55pm:

Kat wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:52pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 11:32am:

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:54am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:02am:

Rudd and Gillard both never finished a full term in office & Rudd was PM twice in those six years. If there is ever a situation where Abbott gets knifed (not stands down), then he may be considered a less than successful PM. But even then, he won't be up there with Rudd & Gillard as the worst. Keating is well ahead of Abbott as worst and Rudd/Gillard top the list.

Abbott - 60% disapproval. Only matched by Gillard at her lowest. Unlike Gillard though, Abbott's got to this level despite the media, not because of it. It's all his own doing.

If we're to judge by "worst", we can compare broken promises, proven lies or obvious gaffes. Abbott comes out worse than Rudd and Gillard on all these measures. To assert that Abbott is somehow better is just a biased assessment with no supporting evidence.

If you honestly think Gillard's problems were because of the media, then all hope is lost for you!!! Grin

Well most of them smacking were.

And what weren't, were caused by that corrupt, lying pack of fascist maggots that you support.

Those who continue to support this shower of faeces are traitors, fools, or both. Nothing more.

Most of Julia's problems were internal (Rudd) or self inflicted.
She was a great deputy but fell apart as PM due to her sticking to what I can only think was the spin doctors tactics.

Why do you bother with el grubbo grendal it's person! Wink

Why don't you smack off, sock-troll?

You should have been banned (again) by now.

Bit touchy today jimmy Grin

No. Just not in the mood to suffer fools.

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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 38181 Gender:	Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history Reply #114 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 6:13pm I heard question time today and tony is sounding better, getting a bit more confident. the labor side still sounded shrill and emotional. may be hope for tony yet
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 123062 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history Reply #115 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 6:43pm Bobby. wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2014 at 1:18pm: You've gotta watch it.
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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #116 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 9:22pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 11:32am:

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:54am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:02am:

Rudd and Gillard both never finished a full term in office & Rudd was PM twice in those six years. If there is ever a situation where Abbott gets knifed (not stands down), then he may be considered a less than successful PM. But even then, he won't be up there with Rudd & Gillard as the worst. Keating is well ahead of Abbott as worst and Rudd/Gillard top the list.

Abbott - 60% disapproval. Only matched by Gillard at her lowest. Unlike Gillard though, Abbott's got to this level despite the media, not because of it. It's all his own doing.

If we're to judge by "worst", we can compare broken promises, proven lies or obvious gaffes. Abbott comes out worse than Rudd and Gillard on all these measures. To assert that Abbott is somehow better is just a biased assessment with no supporting evidence.

If you honestly think Gillard's problems were because of the media, then all hope is lost for you!!!

Media bias was one of the primary factors, certainly a long way from the only one but still very relivant.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history Reply #117 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 9:28pm Abbott is better than Rudd or Gillard so he can't be the worst.
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Grendel

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #118 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:48pm

Datalife wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 2:03pm:

Grendel wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:55pm:

Most of Julia's problems were internal (Rudd) or self inflicted.
She was a great deputy but fell apart as PM due to her sticking to what I can only think was the spin doctors tactics.

Indeed, imagine if she had a Peta Credlin instead of John McTernan.

The real Julia lol.

Personally I don't think Credlin is a big step up.

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Grendel

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Re: Abbott worst PM in Australia history
Reply #119 - Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:50pm

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 3:00pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 1:08pm:

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 12:05pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 11:32am:

Bam wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:54am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2014 at 10:02am:

Rudd and Gillard both never finished a full term in office & Rudd was PM twice in those six years. If there is ever a situation where Abbott gets knifed (not stands down), then he may be considered a less than successful PM. But even then, he won't be up there with Rudd & Gillard as the worst. Keating is well ahead of Abbott as worst and Rudd/Gillard top the list.

Abbott - 60% disapproval. Only matched by Gillard at her lowest. Unlike Gillard though, Abbott's got to this level despite the media, not because of it. It's all his own doing.

If we're to judge by "worst", we can compare broken promises, proven lies or obvious gaffes. Abbott comes out worse than Rudd and Gillard on all these measures. To assert that Abbott is somehow better is just a biased assessment with no supporting evidence.

If you honestly think Gillard's problems were because of the media, then all hope is lost for you!!! Grin

Hope is already lost for you. You refuse to admit that Abbott has problems of his own making.

Oh, and another point - exclamation marks are not a substitute for rational argument.

All the media did was to highlight Gillard's numerous failings - they certainly didn't cause them. That didn't stop Conroy from trying to go all Stalinist on the media in his attempts to censor the bad news!

Your grip on reality is tenuous at best.

All that was proposed was making the print media accountable. I see no harm in putting in place laws that would make the print media accountable if they printed blatant lies. The broadcast media have had the same rules in place for years and they can still broadcast what they want - it just that if they tell lies they can be brought to account.

Get real... Conroy the Greens and the ALP in general wanted to silence the media from scrutinising them. Conservatives have to put up with media bias but the luvvies who cannot tolerate dissent wanted to put and end to it.

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