Australian Politics Forum - That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus

greggerypeccary

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Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus
Reply #60 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:42pm

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:19pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:05pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:52pm:

BlindFreddy wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:19pm:

1. Because they've come before having their claim processed.

That's correct. And it's perfectly legal, because they are asylum seekers.

Once they say "I seek asylum", they are indeed asylum seekers. Moreover, they can make that claim wherever they like: it doesn't have to be announced before they arrive in a foreign country.

However, once they have claimed asylum, they then need to have their claim for refugee status processed.

And before they say "i seek asylum" they have entered Australia illegaly.

Under which Section, of which Act, is it illegal?

And, what is the actual offence?

LOL

It's not illegal, you can just jump on a plane, boat whatever and enter any country you want.

Said no one ever... Roll Eyes

Article 31 includes the term "illegal entry".

parties to the convention cannot penalise refugees as a result of their "illegal entry or presence" as long as they present to authorities "without delay" and "show good cause for their illegal entry or presence".

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country

It's never been legal to enter OZ without a visa, just as it is not "illegal" to claim asylum.

There is no actual crime, that's why the PC nice people like you to use nice names.

The carriage of the "not yet" asylum seekers is a crime.

The United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees is not an Australian Act.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 156534 Gender:	Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus Reply #61 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:43pm .
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King FriYAY II

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Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus
Reply #62 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:47pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:42pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:19pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:05pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:52pm:

BlindFreddy wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:19pm:

1. Because they've come before having their claim processed.

That's correct. And it's perfectly legal, because they are asylum seekers.

Once they say "I seek asylum", they are indeed asylum seekers. Moreover, they can make that claim wherever they like: it doesn't have to be announced before they arrive in a foreign country.

However, once they have claimed asylum, they then need to have their claim for refugee status processed.

And before they say "i seek asylum" they have entered Australia illegaly.

Under which Section, of which Act, is it illegal?

And, what is the actual offence?

LOL

It's not illegal, you can just jump on a plane, boat whatever and enter any country you want.

Said no one ever... Roll Eyes

Article 31 includes the term "illegal entry".

parties to the convention cannot penalise refugees as a result of their "illegal entry or presence" as long as they present to authorities "without delay" and "show good cause for their illegal entry or presence".

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country

It's never been legal to enter OZ without a visa, just as it is not "illegal" to claim asylum.

There is no actual crime, that's why the PC nice people like you to use nice names.

The carriage of the "not yet" asylum seekers is a crime.

The United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees is not an Australian Act.

Illegal to enter, not to claim asylum.

Now, ef off illegal country shoppers.

Grin

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greggerypeccary

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Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus
Reply #63 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:49pm

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:47pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:42pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:19pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:05pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:52pm:

BlindFreddy wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:19pm:

1. Because they've come before having their claim processed.

That's correct. And it's perfectly legal, because they are asylum seekers.

Once they say "I seek asylum", they are indeed asylum seekers. Moreover, they can make that claim wherever they like: it doesn't have to be announced before they arrive in a foreign country.

However, once they have claimed asylum, they then need to have their claim for refugee status processed.

And before they say "i seek asylum" they have entered Australia illegaly.

Under which Section, of which Act, is it illegal?

And, what is the actual offence?

LOL

It's not illegal, you can just jump on a plane, boat whatever and enter any country you want.

Said no one ever... Roll Eyes

Article 31 includes the term "illegal entry".

parties to the convention cannot penalise refugees as a result of their "illegal entry or presence" as long as they present to authorities "without delay" and "show good cause for their illegal entry or presence".

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country

It's never been legal to enter OZ without a visa, just as it is not "illegal" to claim asylum.

There is no actual crime, that's why the PC nice people like you to use nice names.

The carriage of the "not yet" asylum seekers is a crime.

The United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees is not an Australian Act.

Illegal to enter, not to claim asylum.

Incorrect.

No piece of Australian legislation says that it is illegal to enter.

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King FriYAY II

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Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus
Reply #64 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:50pm

The verdict

Mr Morrison is correct.

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

That is the case even though these people have not committed any crime, nor broken any Australian or international law.

Still illegal.... Cheesy

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King FriYAY II

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Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus
Reply #65 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:52pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:49pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:47pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:42pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:19pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:05pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:52pm:

BlindFreddy wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 12:19pm:

1. Because they've come before having their claim processed.

That's correct. And it's perfectly legal, because they are asylum seekers.

Once they say "I seek asylum", they are indeed asylum seekers. Moreover, they can make that claim wherever they like: it doesn't have to be announced before they arrive in a foreign country.

However, once they have claimed asylum, they then need to have their claim for refugee status processed.

And before they say "i seek asylum" they have entered Australia illegaly.

Under which Section, of which Act, is it illegal?

And, what is the actual offence?

LOL

It's not illegal, you can just jump on a plane, boat whatever and enter any country you want.

Said no one ever... Roll Eyes

Article 31 includes the term "illegal entry".

parties to the convention cannot penalise refugees as a result of their "illegal entry or presence" as long as they present to authorities "without delay" and "show good cause for their illegal entry or presence".

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country

It's never been legal to enter OZ without a visa, just as it is not "illegal" to claim asylum.

There is no actual crime, that's why the PC nice people like you to use nice names.

The carriage of the "not yet" asylum seekers is a crime.

The United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees is not an Australian Act.

Illegal to enter, not to claim asylum.

Incorrect.

No piece of Australian legislation says that it is illegal to enter.

The verdict
Mr Morrison is correct.

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

That is the case even though these people have not committed any crime, nor broken any Australian or international law.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus
Reply #66 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:59pm

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:50pm:

The verdict

Mr Morrison is correct.

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

That is the case even though these people have not committed any crime, nor broken any Australian or international law.

Still illegal....

No.

Did you read your post?

It completely contradicts itself.

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King FriYAY II

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Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus
Reply #67 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:05pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:59pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 1:50pm:

The verdict

Mr Morrison is correct.

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

That is the case even though these people have not committed any crime, nor broken any Australian or international law.

Still illegal....

No.

Did you read your post?

It completely contradicts itself.

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

Cheesy

We are talking about "potential" asylum seekers crossing Australia's borders with the help of people smugglers.

That's "illegal"!!

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

That's why no one except morons on forums bother to even question the use of the term.

Bloody country shopping illegals.

Wink

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 156534 Gender:	Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus Reply #68 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:16pm King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:05pm: We are talking about "potential" asylum seekers crossing Australia's borders with the help of people smugglers. That's "illegal"!! No, it's not. Saying the wrong thing louder doesn't make it right.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 156534 Gender:	Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus Reply #69 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:18pm King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:05pm: Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol ... That's a new one. Link?
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|dev|null

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Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus
Reply #70 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:26pm

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:05pm:

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

Yes...and no.

If they arrive at the border and claim asylum, they have committed no illegal act, so therefore, they have not "illegally entered the country". Their claim for Asylum has to be adjudicated by the Refugee Tribunal. If it is upheld, they are granted Asylum and allowed to enter the country. If it is not, then and only then are they considered "illegal immigrants".

That is how the legislation is written and no matter how much or how often or how loudly the Government may claim otherwise, until they change the legislaton, that is how the law reads and that is how the employees of the Government are required to act.

You, because of your obvious xenophobia may wish to believe otherwise but that doesn't make it the truth! Grin

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King FriYAY II

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Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus
Reply #71 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:27pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:16pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:05pm:

We are talking about "potential" asylum seekers crossing Australia's borders with the help of people smugglers.

That's "illegal"!!

No, it's not.

Saying the wrong thing louder doesn't make it right.

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

Tongue

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King FriYAY II

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Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus
Reply #72 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:28pm

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:26pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:05pm:

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

Yes...and no.

If they arrive at the border and claim asylum, they have committed no illegal act, so therefore, they have not "illegally entered the country". Their claim for Asylum has to be adjudicated by the Refugee Tribunal. If it is upheld, they are granted Asylum and allowed to enter the country. If it is not, then and only then are they considered "illegal immigrants".

That is how the legislation is written and no matter how much or how often or how loudly the Government may claim otherwise, until they change the legislaton, that is how the law reads and that is how the employees of the Government are required to act.

You, because of your obvious xenophobia may wish to believe otherwise but that doesn't make it the truth! Grin

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

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|dev|null

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Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus
Reply #73 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 3:08pm

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:28pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:26pm:

King FriYAY II wrote on Jun 17^th, 2014 at 2:05pm:

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

Yes...and no.

If they arrive at the border and claim asylum, they have committed no illegal act, so therefore, they have not "illegally entered the country". Their claim for Asylum has to be adjudicated by the Refugee Tribunal. If it is upheld, they are granted Asylum and allowed to enter the country. If it is not, then and only then are they considered "illegal immigrants".

That is how the legislation is written and no matter how much or how often or how loudly the Government may claim otherwise, until they change the legislaton, that is how the law reads and that is how the employees of the Government are required to act.

You, because of your obvious xenophobia may wish to believe otherwise but that doesn't make it the truth! Grin

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol, people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

The protocol has no status in law, whereas the legislation does. You cannot describe someone as being "illegal" without some form of legally binding judgement having been made against them which proves their legal or illegal status. I'd love to see you try and argue this in a court of law. It'd be amusing to watch as you're booted out the door! Even the Government doesn't try and use this bullshit "protocol" in legal proceedings. All it exists to do is to fool idiots like you into believing the Government's justification for what it's claiming about Asylum Seekers and doing to them... Grin

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"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
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King FriYAY II

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Re: That Iranian refo that got killed on Manus
Reply #74 - Jun 17^th, 2014 at 3:14pm

The verdict

Mr Morrison is correct.

Based on the definition set out in the people smuggling protocol

,

people who have come to Australia without a valid visa have illegally entered the country.

That is the case even though these people have not committed any crime, nor broken any Australian or international law.

Cheesy

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