Australian Politics Forum - Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare

St George of the Garden

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Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare
Reply #60 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 1:57pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 1:52pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:31am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:24am:

The no-brainer is to increase taxes across the board.

Pretty sure if the Liberals did this they would be crucified. Well anyone, but particularly a party where one of their policies is low tax

True, and I am anti-tax myself BUT if the reasons for the increase are apolitical then it's a necessary evil.

Such a proposal would require bi-partisan support or a hell of a big majority in both Houses.

New taxes are politically toxic.

It depends upon whether the Govt is there to Govern or to remain in power as long as they can. (normally it's the latter)

The Opposition (whether they agree with it or not) will use any tax increase as a tool to gain political mileage. Labor did it with the GST and Abbott with the carbon and mining tax.

That is what I said re bipartisanship being needed re tax increases.

But I think the two top brackets, who got the biggest cuts, should have the last 2-3 tax cuts reversed. Some of the money can then be used to boost NewStart which will in turn boost the economy.

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Swagman

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Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare
Reply #61 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:10pm

Sorry but boosting Newstart is not going to boost the economy (except maybe pubs and pool halls) It's just going to encourage people to stay on it.

If I have to pay increased tax I don't want it paid to people to do nothing.

Put the extra cash into job generation with perhaps rewards for Newstart recipients to participate. Bonus payments for those that stay in work for a set period and bonus payments for those that get additional qualifications.

When you reward something you get more of it.

Reward effort and you get more effort. Reward being unemployed and you will just get more unemployed. Sad

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Fit of Absent Mindeness

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Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare
Reply #62 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:13pm

Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 1:15pm:

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 1:06pm:

Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 12:52pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 12:44pm:

How often does this have to be disproven before you accept that your
beloved stereotype comprises LESS THAN 1% of recipients?

Maybe on your planet, here on Earth though thats just not the case. Wink

According to the dept of immigration 89% of reffos are still on welfare after five years as opposed to 20% of the wider community.
Bludgers and layabouts is all they are, just like you.

Do you have any data to backup this up?

You have trouble reading?

Not at all.

I was asking if you had any links to data to backup your "facts":

"According to the dept of immigration 89% of reffos are still on welfare after five years as opposed to 20% of the wider community."

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/the-truth-on-refugees-is-worse-than-fiction-20120729-2369z.html

The amount of workplace participation among refugees and asylum-seekers remains low for some time. After four years, only about 25 per cent are engaged in full-time work. (The issue is examined in a Department of Immigration report, Settlement Outcomes for New Arrivals, published in April last year.)

Not quite the 89% figure you had in mind.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/research/_pdf/settlement-outcomes-new-arrivals.pdf

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare Reply #63 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:15pm Swagman wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:10pm: Sorry but boosting Newstart is not going to boost the economy (except maybe pubs and pool halls) It's just going to encourage people to stay on it. Oh look, another person with absolutely no idea how macro economics works
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Kat

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Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare
Reply #64 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:21pm

Stratos wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:15pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:10pm:

Sorry but boosting Newstart is not going to boost the economy (except maybe pubs and pool halls) It's just going to encourage people to stay on it.

Oh look, another person with absolutely no idea how macro economics works Roll Eyes

Oh, Swaggie just loves sinking the boot into the unemployed, between bouts
of denial that middle-class welfare exists.

He's another who believes if you're on the dole you always have been, always
will be, have never paid your way, are a drunk or druggie, have no skills or
ability to learn any, or are a housing trasher.

And that you're basically entitled to nothing.

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Kat

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Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare
Reply #65 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:27pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:10pm:

Sorry but boosting Newstart is not going to boost the economy

Um, yes. It will. Money getting spent, y'know...

(except maybe pubs and pool halls)

That old saw again. How often must this be discredited before you accept that it's wrong AND offensive?

It's just going to encourage people to stay on it.

Too silly for words, and a blatant misrepresentation, designed to discredit and stigmatise the unemployed as bludgers.

If I have to pay increased tax I don't want it paid to people to do nothing.

What you want doesn't enter into it, I'm afraid. Personally, I'd prefer mine to go there, than to the working middle-class.

Put the extra cash into job generation with perhaps rewards for Newstart recipients to participate. Bonus payments for those that stay in work for a set period and bonus payments for those that get additional qualifications.

Agree, but the rate must still be raised $100/fortnight for the rest. This is not negotiable. And if someone does WfD, then they should get a full day's pay for it, not a paltry $20/fortnight no matter how much or how little they do.

When you reward something you get more of it.

Looks like they've been rewarding selfishness, greed and self-interest, then.

Reward effort and you get more effort. Reward being unemployed and you will just get more unemployed.

And you'll be getting that regardless. So, stop being greedy ass-wipes, and pony-up a fair go.

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adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare Reply #66 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:27pm As Shorty says...Abbott is happy to attack the poor, the weak and the lame but when it comes to handouts to the millionaires and billionaires he just keeps dealing out the cash. Abbott is a fraud and a coward
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Bam

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Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare
Reply #67 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 4:15pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 1:57pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 1:52pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:31am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:24am:

The no-brainer is to increase taxes across the board.

Pretty sure if the Liberals did this they would be crucified. Well anyone, but particularly a party where one of their policies is low tax

True, and I am anti-tax myself BUT if the reasons for the increase are apolitical then it's a necessary evil.

Such a proposal would require bi-partisan support or a hell of a big majority in both Houses.

New taxes are politically toxic.

It depends upon whether the Govt is there to Govern or to remain in power as long as they can. (normally it's the latter)

The Opposition (whether they agree with it or not) will use any tax increase as a tool to gain political mileage. Labor did it with the GST and Abbott with the carbon and mining tax.

That is what I said re bipartisanship being needed re tax increases.

But I think the two top brackets, who got the biggest cuts, should have the last 2-3 tax cuts reversed. Some of the money can then be used to boost NewStart which will in turn boost the economy.

We should reverse the tax cuts that were funded by nonexistent mining revenue.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Innocent bystander

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Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare
Reply #68 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 4:38pm

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:13pm:

Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 1:15pm:

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 1:06pm:

Innocent bystander wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 12:52pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 12:44pm:

How often does this have to be disproven before you accept that your
beloved stereotype comprises LESS THAN 1% of recipients?

Maybe on your planet, here on Earth though thats just not the case. Wink

According to the dept of immigration 89% of reffos are still on welfare after five years as opposed to 20% of the wider community.
Bludgers and layabouts is all they are, just like you.

Do you have any data to backup this up?

You have trouble reading?

Not at all.

I was asking if you had any links to data to backup your "facts":

"According to the dept of immigration 89% of reffos are still on welfare after five years as opposed to 20% of the wider community."

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/the-truth-on-refugees-is-worse-than-fiction-20120729-2369z.html

The amount of workplace participation among refugees and asylum-seekers remains low for some time. After four years, only about 25 per cent are engaged in full-time work. (The issue is examined in a Department of Immigration report, Settlement Outcomes for New Arrivals, published in April last year.)

Not quite the 89% figure you had in mind.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/research/_pdf/settlement-outcomes-new-arrivals.pdf

You're helping my argument ya buffoon Grin

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Innocent bystander

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Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare
Reply #69 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 4:40pm

adelcrow wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:27pm:

As Shorty says...Abbott is happy to attack the poor, the weak and the lame but when it comes to handouts to the millionaires and billionaires he just keeps dealing out the cash.
Abbott is a fraud and a coward

Don't worry crow brains there will still be plenty of dough for mental health. Wink

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Bam

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Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare
Reply #70 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 4:40pm

Swagman wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:10pm:

Sorry but boosting Newstart is not going to boost the economy (except maybe pubs and pool halls) It's just going to encourage people to stay on it.

If I have to pay increased tax I don't want it paid to people to do nothing.

Put the extra cash into job generation with perhaps rewards for Newstart recipients to participate. Bonus payments for those that stay in work for a set period and bonus payments for those that get additional qualifications.

When you reward something you get more of it.

Reward effort and you get more effort. Reward being unemployed and you will just get more unemployed. Sad

Your offensive rant shows that you have not a clue about unemployment.

Let me give you an example to show you just how far off the mark you are.

There are unemployed people out there that have applied for hundreds of jobs. Some over a thousand. Do you know why they don't get hired? Many employers do not hire unemployed people. Not currently employed? That is a good enough reason for maybe 80% to 90% of employers to reject the application on sight. It's no wonder that so many people get discouraged in the job search to the extent that they give up or even kill themselves.

This is why paying subsidies to long term unemployed on finding employment will not work. It is not the job seeker that's rejecting resumes without a section marked "current employment" on them. It's not the job seeker that rejects applications without "recent experience" (you're not currently in work so get lost) or because they are "overqualified" (forget working your way up), or "we are a young office" (you are too old).

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare Reply #71 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 5:02pm Oh yes, those bludgers on the dole are sucking the welfare budget dry, and sending us bankrupt. In the fetid, narrow minds of conservatives, perhaps, but not in the real world where it is essentially miniscule. But just look at the slice covering wealthfare...
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare Reply #72 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 5:06pm The Greens went into the last election with its welfare policy and lost 30% of its voter base So Greens have no credibility
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De-registered User

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Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare
Reply #73 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 5:33pm

St George of the Garden wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 1:57pm:

Swagman wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 1:52pm:

Stratos wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:31am:

Swagman wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:24am:

The no-brainer is to increase taxes across the board.

Pretty sure if the Liberals did this they would be crucified. Well anyone, but particularly a party where one of their policies is low tax

True, and I am anti-tax myself BUT if the reasons for the increase are apolitical then it's a necessary evil.

Such a proposal would require bi-partisan support or a hell of a big majority in both Houses.

New taxes are politically toxic.

It depends upon whether the Govt is there to Govern or to remain in power as long as they can. (normally it's the latter)

The Opposition (whether they agree with it or not) will use any tax increase as a tool to gain political mileage. Labor did it with the GST and Abbott with the carbon and mining tax.

That is what I said re bipartisanship being needed re tax increases.

But I think the two top brackets, who got the biggest cuts, should have the last 2-3 tax cuts reversed. Some of the money can then be used to boost NewStart which will in turn boost the economy.

After all the bullshyte this dick head has written, i'm now under the impression that this dick head owns and runs a labor higher company! and possibly a relative of Kevin Dudd's wife! I reckon I've hit the nail on the head here!

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De-registered User

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Re: Abbott's Cons Attacking Welfare
Reply #74 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 5:39pm

Maqqa wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 5:06pm:

The Greens went into the last election with its welfare policy and lost 30% of its voter base

So Greens have no credibility

Surprise, surprise.................my prediction is that the Greens will will gone in 6 years!!!!!!!! hopefully sooner!!!!!!!!
it would only be another huge saving to the tax payer to rid this country of these thieving tax funded bastards

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