Australian Politics Forum - Ice age on its way...

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #60 - Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:43pm

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 1:59pm:

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 11:03am:

'Stephen Hawking: "We don’t know where global warming will stop but the worst case scenario is that the earth will become like its sister planet Venus, with a temperature of 250 degrees C ..." '

Can you explain this I'm lost.

Water is a stable compound - freeze it, boil it; it stays water. If you separate it, eg electrolysis, it quickly forms - water. From what I have seen the only mechanism, whilst it is in this fleeting separated state, is for the H2 to be emitted to space.

How in a "bubble" is that achieved?

If it remains around earth as water vapour it will increase the radiation to space, cooling the earth.

Isn't water vapour a greenhouse gas?

Why would water vapour "increase the radiation to space"? Are you confusing water vapour and clouds? Are clouds water vapour?

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:26pm:

'Are clouds water vapour?'

'Clouds form when the invisible water vapour in the air condenses into visible water droplets or ice crystals.'

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/clouds/what-are-clouds

So condensed water vapour. More water vapour more can condense.

'The study of clouds, where they occur, and their characteristics, play a key role in the understanding of climate change. Low, thick clouds primarily reflect solar radiation and cool the surface of the Earth.'

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Clouds/

So you confused water vapour with water droplets?

At 250 Celsius, would droplets form?

Unless you actually want your posts to be difficult to interpret, you'd best learn how to use the 'Quote' button.

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namnugenot

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #61 - Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:48pm

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:07pm:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 10:56pm:

lee wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

# wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

Wouldn't you need the data in advance, if you're going to predict what might happen?

Data in advance is not data- It is projection, prognostication, prediction but not data. Like Climate Models.

And here's the thing...what you chose as a data set influences that projection and you may get what appear to be perfectly reasonable prognostications and predictions based on that restricted data. You hear words like unprecedented and unparalleled quite a lot but it's really a shabby deception, a bit of theatre and flimflam. The 1950's are chosen because that's what pushes their barrow.

Of course, of course. The vast majority of the best qualified are engaged in a grand conspiracy for their own shabby ends. Not only that, but every organisation of reputable scientists on the planet is in it with them.

So start with the hypothesis and then choose the data set that does not disprove the end result...then state it cant be questioned...unfortunately that is a scenario that would have us all walking around thinking the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth.

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #62 - Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:50pm

namnugenot wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:48pm:

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:07pm:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 10:56pm:

lee wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

# wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

Wouldn't you need the data in advance, if you're going to predict what might happen?

Data in advance is not data- It is projection, prognostication, prediction but not data. Like Climate Models.

And here's the thing...what you chose as a data set influences that projection and you may get what appear to be perfectly reasonable prognostications and predictions based on that restricted data. You hear words like unprecedented and unparalleled quite a lot but it's really a shabby deception, a bit of theatre and flimflam. The 1950's are chosen because that's what pushes their barrow.

Of course, of course. The vast majority of the best qualified are engaged in a grand conspiracy for their own shabby ends. Not only that, but every organisation of reputable scientists on the planet is in it with them.

So start with the hypothesis and then choose the data set that does not disprove the end result...then state it cant be questioned...unfortunately that is a scenario that would have us all walking around thinking the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth.

Who said "it cant be questioned"?

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lee

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #63 - Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:50pm

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:43pm:

At 250 Celsius, would droplets form?

I would expect all the water to have formed into water droplets well before 250C.

'Water is a stable compound - freeze it, boil it; it stays water. If you separate it, eg electrolysis, it quickly forms - water. From what I have seen the only mechanism, whilst it is in this fleeting separated state, is for the H2 to be emitted to space.

How in a "bubble" is that achieved? '

Now can you explain that part?

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#

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #64 - Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:57pm

lee wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:50pm:

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:43pm:

At 250 Celsius, would droplets form?

I would expect all the water to have formed into water droplets well before 250C.

Now can you explain that part?

How could I possibly explain your expectation?

I rely on the knowledge that Carl Sagan (who, on the dynamics of planetary atmospheres, was probably the best mind this planet has ever produced) warned of the risk and Stephen Hawking (who is probably the best mind alive on this planet) repeated the warning. I don't claim to understand. I certainly don't claim to know better.

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« Last Edit: Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 7:57pm by # »

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #65 - Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 3:43pm

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:07pm:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 10:56pm:

lee wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

# wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

Wouldn't you need the data in advance, if you're going to predict what might happen?

Data in advance is not data- It is projection, prognostication, prediction but not data. Like Climate Models.

And here's the thing...what you chose as a data set influences that projection and you may get what appear to be perfectly reasonable prognostications and predictions based on that restricted data. You hear words like unprecedented and unparalleled quite a lot but it's really a shabby deception, a bit of theatre and flimflam. The 1950's are chosen because that's what pushes their barrow.

Of course, of course. The vast majority of the best qualified are engaged in a grand conspiracy for their own shabby ends. Not only that, but every organisation of reputable scientists on the planet is in it with them.

Didn't Climategate pretty much prove that??

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #66 - Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 4:09pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 3:43pm:

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:07pm:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 10:56pm:

lee wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

# wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

Wouldn't you need the data in advance, if you're going to predict what might happen?

Data in advance is not data- It is projection, prognostication, prediction but not data. Like Climate Models.

And here's the thing...what you chose as a data set influences that projection and you may get what appear to be perfectly reasonable prognostications and predictions based on that restricted data. You hear words like unprecedented and unparalleled quite a lot but it's really a shabby deception, a bit of theatre and flimflam. The 1950's are chosen because that's what pushes their barrow.

Of course, of course. The vast majority of the best qualified are engaged in a grand conspiracy for their own shabby ends. Not only that, but every organisation of reputable scientists on the planet is in it with them.

Didn't Climategate pretty much prove that??

Climategate ? All that proved that some people send hissy-fit emails.

meanwhile, the temperature rises.

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #67 - Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 7:58pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 3:43pm:

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:07pm:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 10:56pm:

lee wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

# wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

Wouldn't you need the data in advance, if you're going to predict what might happen?

Data in advance is not data- It is projection, prognostication, prediction but not data. Like Climate Models.

And here's the thing...what you chose as a data set influences that projection and you may get what appear to be perfectly reasonable prognostications and predictions based on that restricted data. You hear words like unprecedented and unparalleled quite a lot but it's really a shabby deception, a bit of theatre and flimflam. The 1950's are chosen because that's what pushes their barrow.

Of course, of course. The vast majority of the best qualified are engaged in a grand conspiracy for their own shabby ends. Not only that, but every organisation of reputable scientists on the planet is in it with them.

Didn't Climategate pretty much prove that??

Not to my knowledge.

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namnugenot

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #68 - Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 8:23pm

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 7:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 3:43pm:

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:07pm:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 10:56pm:

lee wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

# wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

Wouldn't you need the data in advance, if you're going to predict what might happen?

Data in advance is not data- It is projection, prognostication, prediction but not data. Like Climate Models.

And here's the thing...what you chose as a data set influences that projection and you may get what appear to be perfectly reasonable prognostications and predictions based on that restricted data. You hear words like unprecedented and unparalleled quite a lot but it's really a shabby deception, a bit of theatre and flimflam. The 1950's are chosen because that's what pushes their barrow.

Of course, of course. The vast majority of the best qualified are engaged in a grand conspiracy for their own shabby ends. Not only that, but every organisation of reputable scientists on the planet is in it with them.

Didn't Climategate pretty much prove that??

Not to my knowledge.

Very selective that knowledge.

"Climategate scientists DID collude with government officials to hide research that didn't fit their apocalyptic global warming
5,000 leaked emails reveal scientists deleted evidence that cast doubt on claims climate change was man-made
Experts were under orders from US and UK officials to come up with a 'strong message'
Critics claim: 'The stink of intellectual corruption is overpowering'
Scientist asks, 'What if they find that climate change is a natural fluctuation? They'll kill us all'"

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#

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #69 - Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 8:26pm

namnugenot wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 8:23pm:

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 7:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 3:43pm:

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:07pm:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 10:56pm:

lee wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

# wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

Wouldn't you need the data in advance, if you're going to predict what might happen?

Data in advance is not data- It is projection, prognostication, prediction but not data. Like Climate Models.

And here's the thing...what you chose as a data set influences that projection and you may get what appear to be perfectly reasonable prognostications and predictions based on that restricted data. You hear words like unprecedented and unparalleled quite a lot but it's really a shabby deception, a bit of theatre and flimflam. The 1950's are chosen because that's what pushes their barrow.

Of course, of course. The vast majority of the best qualified are engaged in a grand conspiracy for their own shabby ends. Not only that, but every organisation of reputable scientists on the planet is in it with them.

Didn't Climategate pretty much prove that??

Not to my knowledge.

Very selective that knowledge.

"Climategate scientists DID collude with government officials to hide research that didn't fit their apocalyptic global warming
5,000 leaked emails reveal scientists deleted evidence that cast doubt on claims climate change was man-made
Experts were under orders from US and UK officials to come up with a 'strong message'
Critics claim: 'The stink of intellectual corruption is overpowering'
Scientist asks, 'What if they find that climate change is a natural fluctuation? They'll kill us all'"

Source?

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namnugenot

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #70 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 8:21am

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 8:26pm:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 8:23pm:

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 7:58pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 3:43pm:

# wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2014 at 2:07pm:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 10:56pm:

lee wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 8:30pm:

# wrote on Jan 21^st, 2014 at 7:51pm:

Wouldn't you need the data in advance, if you're going to predict what might happen?

Data in advance is not data- It is projection, prognostication, prediction but not data. Like Climate Models.

And here's the thing...what you chose as a data set influences that projection and you may get what appear to be perfectly reasonable prognostications and predictions based on that restricted data. You hear words like unprecedented and unparalleled quite a lot but it's really a shabby deception, a bit of theatre and flimflam. The 1950's are chosen because that's what pushes their barrow.

Of course, of course. The vast majority of the best qualified are engaged in a grand conspiracy for their own shabby ends. Not only that, but every organisation of reputable scientists on the planet is in it with them.

Didn't Climategate pretty much prove that??

Not to my knowledge.

Very selective that knowledge.

"Climategate scientists DID collude with government officials to hide research that didn't fit their apocalyptic global warming
5,000 leaked emails reveal scientists deleted evidence that cast doubt on claims climate change was man-made
Experts were under orders from US and UK officials to come up with a 'strong message'
Critics claim: 'The stink of intellectual corruption is overpowering'
Scientist asks, 'What if they find that climate change is a natural fluctuation? They'll kill us all'"

Source?

http://dump.kurthbemis.com/climategate2/

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#

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #71 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 10:20am

namnugenot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 8:21am:

...

http://dump.kurthbemis.com/climategate2/

Didn't resolve for me.

Anyway, nobody but hard-line denialists take "climategate" seriously. The issue has been comprehensively investigated and no wrongdoing found.

http://theprojectonclimatescience.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Findings_Mann_I...
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm79/7934/7934.pdf
http://www.uea.ac.uk/mac/comm/media/press/CRUstatements/SAP
http://live.psu.edu/fullimg/userpics/10026/Final_Investigation_Report.pdf
http://www.cce-review.org/pdf/FINAL%20REPORT.pdf
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/d0cf6618525a9efb85257359003fb69d/56eb0d...
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm79/7934/7934.pdf
http://www.oig.doc.gov/OIGPublications/2011.02.18_IG_to_Inhofe.pdf
http://www.nsf.gov/oig/search/A09120086.pdf
Of course, the crazies insist it's all part of the conspiracy. Roll Eyes

Just to tie it all together: Q&A: 'Climategate'

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« Last Edit: Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 10:29am by # »

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namnugenot

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #72 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 6:28pm

# wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 10:20am:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 8:21am:

...

http://dump.kurthbemis.com/climategate2/

Didn't resolve for me.

Anyway, nobody but hard-line denialists take "climategate" seriously. The issue has been comprehensively investigated and no wrongdoing found.

http://theprojectonclimatescience.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Findings_Mann_I...
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm79/7934/7934.pdf
http://www.uea.ac.uk/mac/comm/media/press/CRUstatements/SAP
http://live.psu.edu/fullimg/userpics/10026/Final_Investigation_Report.pdf
http://www.cce-review.org/pdf/FINAL%20REPORT.pdf
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/d0cf6618525a9efb85257359003fb69d/56eb0d...
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm79/7934/7934.pdf
http://www.oig.doc.gov/OIGPublications/2011.02.18_IG_to_Inhofe.pdf
http://www.nsf.gov/oig/search/A09120086.pdf
Of course, the crazies insist it's all part of the conspiracy. Roll Eyes

Just to tie it all together: Q&A: 'Climategate'

Why am I unsurprised...

And you added a collection of dead and blind links as well as ones where they conducted their own investigations into themselves or appointed those who were to do so and "Reports" of such searching rigor as the one this quote was taken from... "Within our limited inquiry and the evidence we took.... It was not our purpose to examine, nor did we seek evidence on, the science produced by CRU.”
But there were also plenty of references to the method employed...
misusing privileged information
serious deviation from accepted practices
we concluded that the University did not adequately review the allegation in either its inquiry or investigation processes....
and so on and so forth...

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#

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #73 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 7:34pm

namnugenot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 6:28pm:

# wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 10:20am:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 8:21am:

...

http://dump.kurthbemis.com/climategate2/

Didn't resolve for me.

Anyway, nobody but hard-line denialists take "climategate" seriously. The issue has been comprehensively investigated and no wrongdoing found.

http://theprojectonclimatescience.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Findings_Mann_I...
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm79/7934/7934.pdf
http://www.uea.ac.uk/mac/comm/media/press/CRUstatements/SAP
http://live.psu.edu/fullimg/userpics/10026/Final_Investigation_Report.pdf
http://www.cce-review.org/pdf/FINAL%20REPORT.pdf
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/d0cf6618525a9efb85257359003fb69d/56eb0d...
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm79/7934/7934.pdf
http://www.oig.doc.gov/OIGPublications/2011.02.18_IG_to_Inhofe.pdf
http://www.nsf.gov/oig/search/A09120086.pdf
Of course, the crazies insist it's all part of the conspiracy. Roll Eyes

Just to tie it all together: Q&A: 'Climategate'

Why am I unsurprised...

And you added a collection of dead and blind links as well as ones where they conducted their own investigations into themselves or appointed those who were to do so and "Reports" of such searching rigor as the one this quote was taken from... "Within our limited inquiry and the evidence we took.... It was not our purpose to examine, nor did we seek evidence on, the science produced by CRU.”
But there were also plenty of references to the method employed...
misusing privileged information
serious deviation from accepted practices
we concluded that the University did not adequately review the allegation in either its inquiry or investigation processes....
and so on and so forth...

The links all worked the last time I used them. Mind you, that was about three years ago. I guess you could call any dead links pay-back for you dead non-link.

As I said, outside the denyosphere, "climategate" is resolved. Within the denysophere, it's proof of the grand conspiracy.

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namnugenot

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #74 - Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 10:14pm

# wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 7:34pm:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 6:28pm:

# wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 10:20am:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2014 at 8:21am:

...

http://dump.kurthbemis.com/climategate2/

Didn't resolve for me.

Anyway, nobody but hard-line denialists take "climategate" seriously. The issue has been comprehensively investigated and no wrongdoing found.

http://theprojectonclimatescience.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Findings_Mann_I...
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm79/7934/7934.pdf
http://www.uea.ac.uk/mac/comm/media/press/CRUstatements/SAP
http://live.psu.edu/fullimg/userpics/10026/Final_Investigation_Report.pdf
http://www.cce-review.org/pdf/FINAL%20REPORT.pdf
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/d0cf6618525a9efb85257359003fb69d/56eb0d...
http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm79/7934/7934.pdf
http://www.oig.doc.gov/OIGPublications/2011.02.18_IG_to_Inhofe.pdf
http://www.nsf.gov/oig/search/A09120086.pdf
Of course, the crazies insist it's all part of the conspiracy. Roll Eyes

Just to tie it all together: Q&A: 'Climategate'

Why am I unsurprised...

And you added a collection of dead and blind links as well as ones where they conducted their own investigations into themselves or appointed those who were to do so and "Reports" of such searching rigor as the one this quote was taken from... "Within our limited inquiry and the evidence we took.... It was not our purpose to examine, nor did we seek evidence on, the science produced by CRU.”
But there were also plenty of references to the method employed...
misusing privileged information
serious deviation from accepted practices
we concluded that the University did not adequately review the allegation in either its inquiry or investigation processes....
and so on and so forth...

The links all worked the last time I used them. Mind you, that was about three years ago. I guess you could call any dead links pay-back for you dead non-link.

As I said, outside the denyosphere, "climategate" is resolved. Within the denysophere, it's proof of the grand conspiracy.

http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/climategate-2-0/

Sorry about that. There that should work.
Your just cranky because your mountain of evidence is shrinking away. No matter how hard you pray for the apocalypse. Time is not on your side.

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