Australian Politics Forum - Ice age on its way...

greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 156241 Gender:	Re: Ice age on its way... Reply #30 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 1:08am # wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 2:52pm: Denialists will assure you that human activities couldn't possibly have that effect. Can you substantiate that claim?
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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Ice age on its way... Reply #31 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 4:40am I vote liberal and yehhhhhhhhhh go me for some reason ...
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muso

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #32 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 6:55am

Ice Age? Sorry, but the mechanism is totally different. It's related to orbital changes - the Milankovich cycle etc.

What he's talking about is another Maunder Minimum. That's possible. In fact the solar activity has been extremely low over the past 10 years at least.

... So why all the record high temperatures?

In the absence of the enormous emissions of CO2, we should have seen a cool spell. We didn't.

- but denialists shouldn't be concerned about this. The evidence for a prolonged period of solar activity is nothing like 95-99%. It isn't even 50%.

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Bobby.

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #33 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 7:45am

muso wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 6:55am:

Ice Age? Sorry, but the mechanism is totally different. It's related to orbital changes - the Milankovich cycle etc.

What he's talking about is another Maunder Minimum. That's possible. In fact the solar activity has been extremely low over the past 10 years at least.

... So why all the record high temperatures?

In the absence of the enormous emissions of CO2, we should have seen a cool spell. We didn't.

- but denialists shouldn't be concerned about this. The evidence for a prolonged period of solar activity is nothing like 95-99%. It isn't even 50%.

A good read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles

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Bobby.

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #34 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 8:16am

Bobby. wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 10:16pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 9:42pm:

# wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 2:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 12:07pm:

That's good news - it might help to ward off global warming.

So you'd think. Unfortunately:
http://grist.files.wordpress.com/2006/10/cru_2005.gif
and it ain't getting any cooler.

We should probably be heading into the next ice age, but:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/images/Temperature_Interglacials.gif
Notice that the current interglacial seems longer than the others? Denialists will assure you that human activities couldn't possibly have that effect.

it's funny how a lot of dumb as dogshit people are now experts on climate science without even passing yr 9 science at high school Grin

Hi Nail,
the fact is that George Carlin is right -
we'll be just another failed extinct species after we wreck
the planet to make it inhospitable for ourselves -

then many new species will develop & the world will cleanse itself.

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Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 122543 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ice age on its way... Reply #35 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 8:16am Bobby. wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 9:35pm: Save the planet.
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namnugenot

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #36 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 9:19am

Bobby. wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 7:45am:

muso wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 6:55am:

Ice Age? Sorry, but the mechanism is totally different. It's related to orbital changes - the Milankovich cycle etc.

What he's talking about is another Maunder Minimum. That's possible. In fact the solar activity has been extremely low over the past 10 years at least.

... So why all the record high temperatures?

In the absence of the enormous emissions of CO2, we should have seen a cool spell. We didn't.

- but denialists shouldn't be concerned about this. The evidence for a prolonged period of solar activity is nothing like 95-99%. It isn't even 50%.

A good read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles

Yes Bobby it is a good read but as noted in the article it has a number of significant, in fact fatal, problems. Note also that 3 of the most highly knowledgeable proponents of this theory and those best scientifically qualified (Note to #) to understand what they mean (Imbrie, Berger and Loutre) have 180 degrees views on what they in fact mean in practice. Imbrie having a cooling from 6000K years ago and continuing for another 23K. While Berger and Loutre putting us in a current warm climate that lasts for another 50K years. So if these guys can't agree on what they mean you can hardly say that they say other than what people tell you they are saying...a bit like reading sheep's entrails, so bang, smack in cultist central.

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Bobby.

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #37 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 9:53am

namnugenot wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 9:19am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 7:45am:

muso wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 6:55am:

Ice Age? Sorry, but the mechanism is totally different. It's related to orbital changes - the Milankovich cycle etc.

What he's talking about is another Maunder Minimum. That's possible. In fact the solar activity has been extremely low over the past 10 years at least.

... So why all the record high temperatures?

In the absence of the enormous emissions of CO2, we should have seen a cool spell. We didn't.

- but denialists shouldn't be concerned about this. The evidence for a prolonged period of solar activity is nothing like 95-99%. It isn't even 50%.

A good read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles

Yes Bobby it is a good read but as noted in the article it has a number of significant, in fact fatal, problems. Note also that 3 of the most highly knowledgeable proponents of this theory and those best scientifically qualified (Note to #) to understand what they mean (Imbrie, Berger and Loutre) have 180 degrees views on what they in fact mean in practice. Imbrie having a cooling from 6000K years ago and continuing for another 23K. While Berger and Loutre putting us in a current warm climate that lasts for another 50K years. So if these guys can't agree on what they mean you can hardly say that they say other than what people tell you they are saying...a bit like reading sheep's entrails, so bang, smack in cultist central.

Don't be put off - it's scientific theory which can be argued.

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namnugenot

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #38 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 10:23am

Bobby. wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 9:53am:

namnugenot wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 9:19am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 7:45am:

muso wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 6:55am:

Ice Age? Sorry, but the mechanism is totally different. It's related to orbital changes - the Milankovich cycle etc.

What he's talking about is another Maunder Minimum. That's possible. In fact the solar activity has been extremely low over the past 10 years at least.

... So why all the record high temperatures?

In the absence of the enormous emissions of CO2, we should have seen a cool spell. We didn't.

- but denialists shouldn't be concerned about this. The evidence for a prolonged period of solar activity is nothing like 95-99%. It isn't even 50%.

A good read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles

Yes Bobby it is a good read but as noted in the article it has a number of significant, in fact fatal, problems. Note also that 3 of the most highly knowledgeable proponents of this theory and those best scientifically qualified (Note to #) to understand what they mean (Imbrie, Berger and Loutre) have 180 degrees views on what they in fact mean in practice. Imbrie having a cooling from 6000K years ago and continuing for another 23K. While Berger and Loutre putting us in a current warm climate that lasts for another 50K years. So if these guys can't agree on what they mean you can hardly say that they say other than what people tell you they are saying...a bit like reading sheep's entrails, so bang, smack in cultist central.

Don't be put off - it's scientific theory which can be argued.

Just noticed I wrote 6000k when should have been 6K or 6000...my apology.

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Bobby. Moderator Offline Australian Politics Posts: 122543 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ice age on its way... Reply #39 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 10:28am forgiven namaste
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #40 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 12:00pm

# wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 8:12pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 3:23pm:

A few observations -
1) We are now at or past the average times pan, when the climate has shifted, over the last 450,000 years.
2) There may be a number of reasons for that, but one SHOULD consider that the cycle MAY be breaking and this could lead to a Venus style Planetary climate on the up side OR it MAY be that the Ice Age has only been delayed a little, possibly by our build up of GHG's.
3) Either way, humanity & many other species live within a "Goldilocks Climate Range" and WHEN (not if) the climate breaks out of the current "Goldilocks Climate Range" that we have enjoyed for some time now and that has seen our numbers flourish, our existence will become much more difficult.
4) When we do break out of the "Goldilocks Climate Range", our current Local & Global Economic structures will become totally redundant, as/and our Population levels will reduce quickly & significantly.
5) There is no validity to the assertion that a break out on the Climate up side will be any better than a break out on the Climate downside.
Either way the future of humanity will come under great stress & either way our survival can not be guaranteed!

The question is whether we've affected the balance to an extreme that may not be survivable. Human beings have survived ice ages. Could we survive:
Quote:

Stephen Hawking: "We don’t know where global warming will stop but the worst case scenario is that the earth will become like its sister planet Venus, with a temperature of 250 degrees C ..."

Could those conditions be survived by anything that we might recognise as life? I really don't want to be a member of the species that sterilises a planet.

Don't worry, you aren't, and won't be. Humanity will not and cannot 'sterilise the planet'..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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people died for this!

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #41 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 7:03pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 12:00pm:

# wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 8:12pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 3:23pm:

A few observations -
1) We are now at or past the average times pan, when the climate has shifted, over the last 450,000 years.
2) There may be a number of reasons for that, but one SHOULD consider that the cycle MAY be breaking and this could lead to a Venus style Planetary climate on the up side OR it MAY be that the Ice Age has only been delayed a little, possibly by our build up of GHG's.
3) Either way, humanity & many other species live within a "Goldilocks Climate Range" and WHEN (not if) the climate breaks out of the current "Goldilocks Climate Range" that we have enjoyed for some time now and that has seen our numbers flourish, our existence will become much more difficult.
4) When we do break out of the "Goldilocks Climate Range", our current Local & Global Economic structures will become totally redundant, as/and our Population levels will reduce quickly & significantly.
5) There is no validity to the assertion that a break out on the Climate up side will be any better than a break out on the Climate downside.
Either way the future of humanity will come under great stress & either way our survival can not be guaranteed!

The question is whether we've affected the balance to an extreme that may not be survivable. Human beings have survived ice ages. Could we survive:
Quote:

Stephen Hawking: "We don’t know where global warming will stop but the worst case scenario is that the earth will become like its sister planet Venus, with a temperature of 250 degrees C ..."

Could those conditions be survived by anything that we might recognise as life? I really don't want to be a member of the species that sterilises a planet.

Don't worry, you aren't, and won't be. Humanity will not and cannot 'sterilise the planet'..

Definition time is it Shocked

?!!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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#

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A fool is certain: an
ignorant fool, absolutely
so

Posts: 2603

Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #42 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 8:17pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 12:00pm:

# wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 8:12pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 3:23pm:

A few observations -
1) We are now at or past the average times pan, when the climate has shifted, over the last 450,000 years.
2) There may be a number of reasons for that, but one SHOULD consider that the cycle MAY be breaking and this could lead to a Venus style Planetary climate on the up side OR it MAY be that the Ice Age has only been delayed a little, possibly by our build up of GHG's.
3) Either way, humanity & many other species live within a "Goldilocks Climate Range" and WHEN (not if) the climate breaks out of the current "Goldilocks Climate Range" that we have enjoyed for some time now and that has seen our numbers flourish, our existence will become much more difficult.
4) When we do break out of the "Goldilocks Climate Range", our current Local & Global Economic structures will become totally redundant, as/and our Population levels will reduce quickly & significantly.
5) There is no validity to the assertion that a break out on the Climate up side will be any better than a break out on the Climate downside.
Either way the future of humanity will come under great stress & either way our survival can not be guaranteed!

The question is whether we've affected the balance to an extreme that may not be survivable. Human beings have survived ice ages. Could we survive:
Quote:

Stephen Hawking: "We don’t know where global warming will stop but the worst case scenario is that the earth will become like its sister planet Venus, with a temperature of 250 degrees C ..."

Could those conditions be survived by anything that we might recognise as life? I really don't want to be a member of the species that sterilises a planet.

Don't worry, you aren't, and won't be. Humanity will not and cannot 'sterilise the planet'..

Can you substantiate those assertions?

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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: Ice age on its way... Reply #43 - Jan 20^th, 2014 at 8:19pm greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 20^th, 2014 at 1:08am: # wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 2:52pm: Denialists will assure you that human activities couldn't possibly have that effect. Can you substantiate that claim? http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1390092495/20#20
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Ice age on its way...
Reply #44 - Jan 21^st, 2014 at 2:50pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 12:18pm:

Rider wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 12:15pm:

skippy. wrote on Jan 19^th, 2014 at 10:52am:

LOL I saw that this morning too funny Rupe trying to put his spin on global warming.this is a great thing, it will help keep global warning at a manageable level.

Total tosh.
But let's not forget the 97% of alarmist scientists and their shyte models have been dead wrong for 17 years. You'd need to be brain damaged to follow the warmist circus, or paid...

and your model is right is it ? Grin

LOL

What 'model'??? Skeptics don't use 'models', they use real world temperatures..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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