Australian Politics Forum - Indonesia demands change to Australian policy

Stratos

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #30 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 9:30am

woody2014 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 9:22am:

So what are we DOING ?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-17/indonesia-says-it-regrets-violations-of-wa...

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/jakarta-demands-stop-your-...

http://www.news.com.au/national/australia-apologises-to-indonesia-over-territori...

Choose your poison.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #31 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 10:27am

Stratos wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 9:16am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 9:14am:

All we're doing is returning Indonesian-flagged vessels back to Indonesian waters after denying them access to our waters, as is our right.

Well seeing as this whole issue arose from one of our vessels going into their territory, this is clearly NOT all we're doing.

That was an accident that Indonesia wasn't even aware of until the Abbott govt apologised. Surely you have to give them credit for being up-front and honest instead of attempting to hide the accidental incursion???

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Stratos

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #32 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 10:35am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 10:27am:

That was an accident

You really think the Australian Navy is that incompetent?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 10:27am:

Surely you have to give them credit for being up-front and honest instead of attempting to hide the accidental incursion???

For once, yes. Hilarious however, seeing as this is a clear breach of maritime law. Government knows they screwed up, and only by throwing grovelling apologies to the people they broke the law against will they have any chance of avoiding further fallout.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Dnarever

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #33 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 10:42am

woody2014 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 8:48am:

Dnarever wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 8:34am:

For me it isn't about what Indonesia either do or don't do.

It is what Australia does.

For me deliberately breaching our agreements and illegally entering the waters of a foreign nation is unacceptable.

I expect Australian governments to act honestly , with integrity and legally.

I can except that you think this standard is too high.

I would be critical of a Labor government behaving is the same manor.

For me deliberately breaching our agreements and illegally entering the waters of a foreign nation is unacceptable.

So now it was DELIBERATE YOU TWAT

You think the boats are turned back by accident or that we bought boats to put refugees into and send back by accident???

I don't even need to insult you to make you look .........

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Sparky Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1338 Gender:	Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy Reply #34 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 10:43am I'll bet that the navy keeps turning boats around. The Indonesians and the left will just have to suck it up.
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Dnarever

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #35 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 10:43am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 10:27am:

Stratos wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 9:16am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 9:14am:

All we're doing is returning Indonesian-flagged vessels back to Indonesian waters after denying them access to our waters, as is our right.

Well seeing as this whole issue arose from one of our vessels going into their territory, this is clearly NOT all we're doing.

That was an accident that Indonesia wasn't even aware of until the Abbott govt apologised. Surely you have to give them credit for being up-front and honest instead of attempting to hide the accidental incursion???

They apologised for a number of incursions, probably every boat they have turned back ????

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woody2014

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #36 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 10:44am

Stratos wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 9:30am:

woody2014 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 9:22am:

So what are we DOING ?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-17/indonesia-says-it-regrets-violations-of-wa...

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/jakarta-demands-stop-your-...

http://www.news.com.au/national/australia-apologises-to-indonesia-over-territori...

Choose your poison.

Simple answer if they get in to trouble Let the indo's go to the rescue Wink

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THE DUMB LEFTIES ON THIS BOARD DONT KNOW IF THERE WINDING THEIR ARSE OR SCRATCHING THEIR WATCH

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Dnarever

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #37 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 10:46am

woody2014 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 9:22am:

Stratos wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 9:16am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 9:14am:

All we're doing is returning Indonesian-flagged vessels back to Indonesian waters after denying them access to our waters, as is our right.

Well seeing as this whole issue arose from one of our vessels going into their territory, this is clearly NOT all we're doing.

So what are we DOING ????????????????

Operational matters - nobody will tell us, transparency in government, another broken promise from a dishonest government?

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Dnarever

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #38 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 10:52am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:06am:

Okay, a few things about this...

My last point is in regards to Indonesia's demands that Australia change one of its policies. The fact is that Indonesia has no right to even suggest Tony Abbott changes the toilet paper at Parliament House, let alone change a crucial policy that is becoming quite successful. If I was Abbott and I received that demand from the Indonesians, I would - in diplomatic-speak - tell them to respectfully bite me. They cannot dictate our policies to us any more than we can do that to them.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/angry-indonesia-demands-federal-g...

I would think it reasonable for Indonesia to ask Australia to look at a policy which is causing Australia to breach Indonesian sovereignty. Not exactly unreasonable.

Tony Abbott changes the toilet paper at Parliament House

Tony Abbott apparently has been seen doing something constructive at last.

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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #39 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 10:59am

a) This sounds remarkably like the Vincennes - accidentally wandered out of international waters... with modern nav aids how do you do that? At least the Vincennes had the excuse that it was under attack/engaged in combat and needed to make whatever sea room it needed.

b) I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here - HOW did these Australian ships 'wander' into Indonesian waters? TF were they doing? Chasing pirates? Rescuing people inside Indo waters?

c) IF it was that last - I agree - bring on the Indo patrols.

d) If we - Australia Corporate - refuse to 'alter our policy' - what will Indo do? Stop the planes to Bali?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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philperth2010

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #40 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 11:52am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:06am:

Okay, a few things about this...

Firstly, it is right for the Australian government to apologise for Navy and Customs vessels accidentally breaching Indonesian waters because it was just that - a mistake. Our vessels got incorrect information from the headquarters in Canberra, so it was an inadvertent breach and the apology is warranted.

My next point is that Indonesia's statement of intention to ramp up patrols to its south (our north) makes me laugh because currently they don't have any patrols to the south to my knowledge. They've all but admitted that the ex-RAN patrol boats we gave them are used in waters to Indonesia's north because that's where their greatest threats are. So I actually welcome their patrols to the south - maybe they'll actually do something about stopping these boats breaching OUR waters for once! We are not breaching Indonesia's sovereignty by returning Indonesian-flagged vessels to Indonesian waters as we have the right to refuse those vessels entry to our waters. We can't leave them to flounder in international waters, so returning them to Indonesian waters with lifejackets, fuel, etc is the responsible thing to do.

My last point is in regards to Indonesia's demands that Australia change one of its policies. The fact is that Indonesia has no right to even suggest Tony Abbott changes the toilet paper at Parliament House, let alone change a crucial policy that is becoming quite successful. If I was Abbott and I received that demand from the Indonesians, I would - in diplomatic-speak - tell them to respectfully bite me. They cannot dictate our policies to us any more than we can do that to them.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/angry-indonesia-demands-federal-g...

What a load of crap.....Does anyone really believe our navy did not know they where within 12 nautical miles of Indonesia on many separate occasions.....These vessels know exactly where they are at all times and this was not a mistake it was a deliberate breach of Indonesia's sovereignty.....If the Indonesian navy entered Australian waters to turn boats back the Conga Line would be outraged and demand retribution......Does anyone really believe the navy had no idea where it was operating???

Huh

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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woody2014

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #41 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 12:00pm

philperth2010 wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 11:52am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 6:06am:

Okay, a few things about this...

Firstly, it is right for the Australian government to apologise for Navy and Customs vessels accidentally breaching Indonesian waters because it was just that - a mistake. Our vessels got incorrect information from the headquarters in Canberra, so it was an inadvertent breach and the apology is warranted.

My next point is that Indonesia's statement of intention to ramp up patrols to its south (our north) makes me laugh because currently they don't have any patrols to the south to my knowledge. They've all but admitted that the ex-RAN patrol boats we gave them are used in waters to Indonesia's north because that's where their greatest threats are. So I actually welcome their patrols to the south - maybe they'll actually do something about stopping these boats breaching OUR waters for once! We are not breaching Indonesia's sovereignty by returning Indonesian-flagged vessels to Indonesian waters as we have the right to refuse those vessels entry to our waters. We can't leave them to flounder in international waters, so returning them to Indonesian waters with lifejackets, fuel, etc is the responsible thing to do.

My last point is in regards to Indonesia's demands that Australia change one of its policies. The fact is that Indonesia has no right to even suggest Tony Abbott changes the toilet paper at Parliament House, let alone change a crucial policy that is becoming quite successful. If I was Abbott and I received that demand from the Indonesians, I would - in diplomatic-speak - tell them to respectfully bite me. They cannot dictate our policies to us any more than we can do that to them.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/national/angry-indonesia-demands-federal-g...

What a load of crap.....Does anyone really believe our navy did not know they where within 12 nautical miles of Indonesia on many separate occasions.....These vessels know exactly where they are at all times and this was not a mistake it was a deliberate breach of Indonesia's sovereignty.....If the Indonesian navy entered Australian waters to turn boats back the Conga Line would be outraged and demand retribution......Does anyone really believe the navy had no idea where it was operating???

Huh

Well if what you tripe is true Some navel officer need rooting They are responsible for their ships position......

Wink

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THE DUMB LEFTIES ON THIS BOARD DONT KNOW IF THERE WINDING THEIR ARSE OR SCRATCHING THEIR WATCH

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St George of the Garden

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Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy
Reply #42 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 12:03pm

Quote:

Indonesia will intensify maritime patrols after Australia admitted that the Navy breached Indonesian waters.— George Roberts (@George_Roberts) January 17, 2014

And – Indonesia has pretty much told Australia to stop sending boats/lifeboats back.

Quote:

Indonesia demands that such operation conducted by the Australian government that lead to this incidents to be suspended until formal clarification is received and assurances of not recurrence of such incidents has been provided.

Translation of Indonesia's updated statement on the Australian Navy "violating" Indonesian territory. pic.twitter.com/20hnpiZhN4— George Roberts (@George_Roberts) January 17, 2014

Great—so if we are really lucky Indo and Aust naval ships will fire on each other. Wonderful! So far we have descended in less than 6 months, my god!

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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy Reply #43 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 12:04pm Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 7:16am: You understand the word precedent right? My point is why not simply adopt the same military policy as the US and Israel? Perhaps because the US and Israel are aggressor nations. Australia isn't.
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woody2014 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2044 NTH EAST VIC Gender:	Re: Indonesia demands change to Australian policy Reply #44 - Jan 18^th, 2014 at 12:08pm Peter Freedman wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 12:04pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 18^th, 2014 at 7:16am: You understand the word precedent right? My point is why not simply adopt the same military policy as the US and Israel? Perhaps because the US and Israel are aggressor nations. Australia isn't.
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