Australian Politics Forum - Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 22083
A cat with a view

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #15 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 3:25pm

wally1 wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 2:38pm:

Christians see the spirit as a diety, a figure, a god like figure. For example the three in one God which people are brainwashed with.

Muslims see spirit as the soul and not as some figure or god like structure.

God created the physical part of the humans, but put in it the soul to bring it into life.

Not Shirk.

One God.

A God who is incomprehensible to human understanding.

wally,

If i worship a man [Jesus]...

Did father Abraham worship a man too ?

Because the Bible records that the LORD God appeared as a man [with two companions], to [biblical] Abraham...

Genesis 18:1
And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

John 8:51
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

1 Corinthians 10:1
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

wally,

I do not believe that God is a man.

God is not a 'man', but scripture says that God's feet were washed by Abraham's water, and that God ate Abraham's meat, and that God appeared as a man, to Abraham.

wally,

If God, is God [the creator], can he manifest himself [as he pleases], within his own creation ???

The Bible [OT] says that our creator has manifested himself, many times, and in many differing forms.

And further, God [the creator] in scripture says, that we [mankind], are his created 'children'.

Deuteronomy 32:19
And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

Isaiah 1:2
Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

Jeremiah 4:22
For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Moslems insist that the Bible has been corrupted, by the Jews and the Christians.

Q.
What do moslems do, commonly ?

A.
They accuse those who are not moslems, of doing what the moslems themselves have done.
Moslems project their own guilt, onto Allah's enemies.

Dictionary;
corrupt = =
1 willing to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain. evil or morally depraved.
2 (of a text or a computer database or program) made unreliable by errors or alterations.
3 rotten or putrid.

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

wally1

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2055
Gender: male

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #16 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 3:50pm

How can somebody see God when the bible tells you something different,

“But you may not look directly at my face, for no one may see me and live.” (Ex.: 33:20 NLT).

“No one has seen God at any time.” (John 1:18 NKJ).

you [Moses] cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.”

JACOB DID NOT LITERALLY SEE GOD

“Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him ... 24And Jacob was left alone. And a man wrestled with him until the breaking of the day. When the man saw that he did not prevail against Jacob, he touched his hip socket, and Jacob’s hip was put out of joint as he wrestled with him. Then he said, "Let me go, for the day has broken." But Jacob said, "I will not let you go unless you bless me." And he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob." Then he said, "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed." Then Jacob asked him, "Please tell me your name." But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?" And there he blessed him. So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered"” (Gen. 32:1, 24-30).

Similar to Abraham’s experience, this is simply an instance of Jacob seeing “the angel of the Lord” who functioned as God and as His representative in relation to Jacob. So Jacob did not literally see God but had struggled with His angel.

MOSES DID NOT LITERALLY SEE GOD

“Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend” (Ex. 33:11).

The Hebrew word ‘face’ is used in the OT in different senses—sometimes literal and sometimes in a variety of figurative ways. In the case of Exodus 33:11 Moses’ speaking “face to face” with God implies his intimate communication with God and his close relationship with God. It does not mean that Moses literally saw God.

Back to top

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 22083
A cat with a view

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #17 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 5:41pm

wally1 wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 3:50pm:

How can somebody see God when the bible tells you something different,

“But you may not look directly at my face, for no one may see me and live.” (Ex.: 33:20 NLT).

“No one has seen God at any time.” (John 1:18 NKJ).

you [Moses] cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.”

JACOB DID NOT LITERALLY SEE GOD

“Jacob went on his way, and the angels of God met him ... 24And Jacob was left alone. And a man wrestled with him until the breaking of the day. When the man saw that he did not prevail against Jacob, he touched his hip socket, and Jacob’s hip was put out of joint as he wrestled with him. Then he said, "Let me go, for the day has broken." But Jacob said, "I will not let you go unless you bless me." And he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob." Then he said, "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed." Then Jacob asked him, "Please tell me your name." But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?" And there he blessed him. So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered"” (Gen. 32:1, 24-30).

Similar to Abraham’s experience, this is simply an instance of Jacob seeing “the angel of the Lord” who functioned as God and as His representative in relation to Jacob. So Jacob did not literally see God but had struggled with His angel.

MOSES DID NOT LITERALLY SEE GOD

“Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend” (Ex. 33:11).

The Hebrew word ‘face’ is used in the OT in different senses—sometimes literal and sometimes in a variety of figurative ways. In the case of Exodus 33:11 Moses’ speaking “face to face” with God implies his intimate communication with God and his close relationship with God. It does not mean that Moses literally saw God.

No man has seen 'God'.

No argument.

Our God, our creator, is incomprehensible ......to our human comprehension.

i.e.
I know that God exists. [....i know that that, that is a bold and vain statement]

But i am certain, that men do not have the intellectual capacity, to know what 'God', actually is.

And yet, wally, God continues to make 'himself' known to man.

And although no man has seen God, and no man can understand the nature of what God is.....

Yadda wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 3:25pm:

wally,

If God, is God [the creator], can he manifest himself [as he pleases], within his own creation ???

The Bible [OT] says that our creator has manifested himself, many times, and in many differing forms.

Dawkins: "Bin Laden Has Won!"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1383646703/18#18
Quote:

I do not understand what God is, or how he exists.

At this time, i see perceive God [i.e. my creator], as real, as an interventionist God [and i believe that i have occasionally experienced the 'intervention' of angels in my life [in night visions, and, in experiencing 'knowing advice' [NOT 'voices'] in the waking state] [the last such 'intervention experience' was in 2006, more than 6 years ago]. but these 'experiences' are unprovable, and i know that they would be viewed by others [by 'normal' people], as delusional.]

[in experiencing this 'knowing advice', in the waking state [in the past]; e.g. i am fully awake, and if i am in prospect, of doing [a specific thing] something which [unknown to me!] could prove to be physically dangerous, it is not unusual/surprising for me to experience a 'knowing advice' incident. and this experience is not in any way 'auditory', in its experience. i can only describe it as suddenly 'knowing' 'something', inside my heart [yes, deep inside my chest]. of suddenly 'possessing' a 'knowing', which i was unaware of an instant ago. i have had the experience where this 'knowing advice' will advise me; "Don't do 'A'. Do 'B' instead."
further, 1/ there is never any sense, of, an overriding authority, which is trying to force me, to choose 'B'. and 2/ my own perception is that the 'source' of this 'knowing advice' always comes from somewhere external to my 'being'.]i

Quote:

Religious Naturalism is an umbrella of world views. My own view within that umbrella is that God is not cognitively meaningful.

My own experience is different.

In 'my universe', God reveals himself as being 'cognitively meaningful', in his interaction with mankind, imo.

Job 7:17
What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?

Job 15:14
What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Psalms 8:4
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

Psalms 144:3
LORD, what is man, that thou takest knowledge of him! or the son of man, that thou makest account of him!

God does seek to have a relationship with men.

Men shun God, or rather, men shun the purity of God.

Men, are lost sheep, lost in the wilderness [which is this world].

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Pete Waldo

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 503
U.S.
Gender: male

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #18 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 7:38pm

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 7:46am:

My question makes perfect sense.

Your description of Shirk sounds very similar to idolatry, or the worship of beings outside of ones own religion.

No, it is worshiping multiple gods within one's own religion.

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 7:46am:

What is the difference between Shirk and idolatry?

Islam's unforgivable sin of "shirk" is worshiping multiple gods, as the Arabian pagan's did when they worshiped the gods of the moon, sun, Venus, and the most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn-devil religion Asaf and Neilah when they engaged in the Sa'ee.
brotherpete.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

For example the Harranian Sabians prayed five times a day, prostrated in prayer, and wore long white robes in worship of their moon god, and even fasted by day during the same month in which Muslims still maintain the same tradition today, even ending the fast with the sighting of the crescent moon.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/origin_of_ramadan.htm

Indeed archaeological evidence regarding the etymology of the name "Allah" suggests it was the name of the Arabian pagan's moon god.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_name_allah.htm

Comically, though not surprisingly, while Muslims call it "fasting" more money is spent on food during the month of Ramadan, and there is more food wasted, than any other month of the year!
"While Ramadan is a time for giving and gratitude, it can also be a month of over-indulgence and waste, with far too much surplus food being dumped into the garbage bins."
en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/food-waste-in-ramadan-is-a-cause-for-concern.html

Or as Muslims suggest, shirk is assigning a "partner" or "helper" to Muhammad's (alter-ego) "Allah", and then accuse Christians because they cannot understand that Jesus is the way God chose to manifest or reveal Himself to mankind - that He was as much a part of God when He was manifest as Jesus, as He was when He was revealed in the flesh to Abraham - so as a result of their error Muslims count Jesus and Yahweh as two separate Gods of Christian worship.

Genesis 18:1 And the LORD {Yehovah} appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men {en-oshe'} stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, 3 And said, My Lord {'Adonay}.....
islamandthetruth.com/god_manifest_flesh.htm

But Muhammad was even so clueless about the Godhead, he thought Mary was a part of the "trinity", and foolishly counted her as another god that he mistakenly thought Christians worship.

Surah 5:116 - And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?"

(though with the scripture contrary idols and veneration of Mary of the Roman Church, it might not be hard to see how someone could have gotten that idea. Ironically, Muslims venerate Mary more than (non-Catholic) Christians - even at Fatima).
If you want to learn more about Roman Church error this ex-nun does a pretty good job of exploring it:
brotherpete.com/catholic_concerns.htm

Mecca wasn't settled until about the 4th century AD, and the Kaaba wasn't built until around the early 5th century AD (when a tent was initially erected on the location), with the black stone idol likely arriving from Yemen in the late 5th century. By Muhammad's 6th-7th century the pagan's Kaaba had 360 idols that represented various pagan gods. Muhammad reduced it down to one idol, the black stone idol, that Muslims still prostrate themselves toward 5 times a day. He wanted to profit from Kaaba Inc. the way his uncle had, so he had to keep up the pagan's interest in coming, by maintaining at least one idol as the focus.
Muslims are even expected to travel to the black stone idol and march around it as the Arabian pagan's did before Muhammad was ever born. Even kiss it as Muhammad did, or if too crowded, at least point to it on each of the 7 times they pass by it when circumambulating the kaaba.

The pagans and Muhammad's followers circumambulated the black stone idol and Kaaba, shoulder to shoulder, right up until the year before Muhammad's last Hajj when he kicked the poor pagans out of their own ritual.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689: Narrated Abu Huraira: In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'
brotherpete.com/hajj_umrah.htm#tawaf

Can you imagine the spectacle of a bunch of naked pagans and Muslims, marching around a black stone idol, while believing the ritual to be of God?!
youtube.com/watch?v=ujUOZyrnewE

Remember this wasn't thousands of years ago in the times of the Canaanites, but rather in the 7th century AD, when the people not isolated from the civilized world in the SW Arabian desert, were highly organized, engineered and civilized. Indeed even such engineering marvels as the Antikythera mechanism is dated to well over 7 centuries before Muhammad!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

Back to top

« Last Edit: Dec 31^st, 2013 at 10:55pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

IP Logged

Pete Waldo

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 503
U.S.
Gender: male

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #19 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 8:48pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 7:57am:

Basically what Pete is saying is "my verses are better than your verses - ........

Tragically it is far worse than that. What I am saying is that Muhammad proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.
falseprophetmuhammad.com

That satan through his messenger THE false prophet Muhammad filled his followers with complete resolve as to what to DISbelieve, REJECT and DENY, regarding the 1600 year record of the one true God of the Jews and Christians whose people have followed Him through two covenants for 3500 years.

Let alone that you are a long way from needing to defend Muhammad's verses. Perhaps we both know there is a good reason you did not respond to "The History of Mecca" thread. So before wasting your time dithering on about verses, the first item you need to establish and present is historical and archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed prior to the 4th century AD, when the actual historical record tells us Yemeni immigrants initially settled the area.
ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1388067196

THE FACT IS that ALL of Islamic so-called "tradition" was created from thin air and put to the pen in the 7th to 10th centuries AD (from 100 to 300 years after Muhammad was dead), without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 5th century AD. A scripture-contrary, history-devoid, archaeology-absent, reality-rejecting, geographically-impossible so-called "tradition" of pure fictional poppycock, that was cooked up by a bunch of semi-literate SW Arabian desert dwellers, about a town located 1200 kilometers away from THE Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs.
historyofmecca.com/geography_mecca_islam.htm

Please investigate this subject for yourself. Google it. Don't take my word for it. Read what this Muslim Eastern History teacher has to say on the subject:
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091231160732AAlTMZx

You see, my friend, since there is not a shred of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD (even though other ancient Arabian towns are very well attested in the historical and archaeological records), everything you have been indoctrinated to believe goes up in a puff of smoke.
religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/archeology.htm

You can walk away from the cult of the false prophet Muhammad, and never have to engage in his adopted, adapted and thinly veneered Quraish pagan moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship rituals again.
brotherpete.com/hajj_umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

You can walk away from the evil of the religion of Islam, and never again have to make excuses for Muhammad's own behavior, or those engaged in murder, mayhem and spreading misery around the world, who GET Islam and do what they can to do as Muhammad did and commanded his followers to do.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm

You never again would have to make excuses for Islam's capturing and pressing slaves into service, that has continued unabated for 1400 years, and unto today:
falseprophetmuhammad.com/islamic_slavery_dhimmitude.htm

You could come to know the love of the ONE true God of the scriptures of the Jews and Christians.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_love_of_god.htm

As millions of your former brethren have. Why not take a moment and watch just a few of their testimonies:
muslimjourneytohope.com/

YOU MUST CHOOSE, between the sinless Messiah who even you believe lives today, or the false prophet Muhammad whose corpse still lies in its shallow grave. Choose between ALL of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind, or Muhammad alone.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 7:57am:

........ therefore muslims are evil"

It is the desperation of those that are unable to defend what they believe, that instead attempt to mischaracterize the conversation as if it were about persons, when what we are discussing is our respective beliefs. We are discussing religion.

Of course as a Christian I have no choice but to believe that the religion of Islam is pure evil, because the STAND-ALONE 7th century false prophet Muhammad fills his followers with complete resolve to DISbelieve the crucifixion of Christ, and thus REJECT His shed blood that saves us from sin - the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/
islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

While DENYING and even blaspheming the Son of God, as ARTICLES OF FAITH in Muhammad alone.
islamandthetruth.com/jesus_the_son_of_god.htm

Indeed Islam is ANTICHRIST, according to the scriptures of the one true God YHWH, that introduce and define the term:
falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 7:57am:

Its an extremely sophisticated argument.

And yes, shirk is merely setting up partners to God - aka idol worship.

You mean setting up partners with Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah". Tragically, as long as Muhammadans follow Muhammad alone, they can't even understand who the God of the scriptures is.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:04pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

IP Logged

Stratos

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4725

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #20 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 10:54pm

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 8:48pm:

You mean setting up partners with Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah". Tragically, as long as Muhammadans follow Muhammad alone, they can't even understand who the God of the scriptures is.

Yours vs mine. How about you debate this properly and argue them both on their own merits on this subject instead of simply assuming one side is right on this topic and the other is wrong by default. Islam is a different religion to Christianity, although they do share numerous similarities.

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 7:38pm:

Why don't you look it up? Islam's sin of "shirk" is worshiping multiple gods, as the Arabian pagan's did when they worshiped the gods of the moon, sun, Venus and the most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn-devil religion Asaf and Neilah.

I did look it up, and it seems very similar to paganism, or holding reverence to God or Gods outside of a religious scripture. You have also yet to explain why paganism is by default a bad thing, other than the fact it disagrees with your personal views.

Or is your problem with Shirk is that this sin is held above all other sins?

Back to top

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

IP Logged

Sprintcyclist

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 40822
Gender: male

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #21 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:19pm

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 10:54pm:

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 8:48pm:

You mean setting up partners with Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah". Tragically, as long as Muhammadans follow Muhammad alone, they can't even understand who the God of the scriptures is.

Yours vs mine. How about you debate this properly and argue them both on their own merits on this subject instead of simply assuming one side is right on this topic and the other is wrong by default. Islam is a different religion to Christianity, although they do share numerous similarities.

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 7:38pm:

Why don't you look it up? Islam's sin of "shirk" is worshiping multiple gods, as the Arabian pagan's did when they worshiped the gods of the moon, sun, Venus and the most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn-devil religion Asaf and Neilah.

I did look it up, and it seems very similar to paganism, or holding reverence to God or Gods outside of a religious scripture. You have also yet to explain why paganism is by default a bad thing, other than the fact it disagrees with your personal views.

Or is your problem with Shirk is that this sin is held above all other sins?

My 'problem' is muzzies will kill those who are not muslims, purely because they are not muslims.
Christians will not.
Well, no other belief system will do this.
Athiests are happy to 'live and let live."
Agnostics are quite ok with any belief or not.

It's only islam that has this extremism.

Back to top

Modern Classic Right Wing

IP Logged

Stratos

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4725

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #22 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:24pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:19pm:

My 'problem' is muzzies will kill those who are not muslims, purely because they are not muslims.
Christians will not.
Well, no other belief system will do this.
Athiests are happy to 'live and let live."
Agnostics are quite ok with any belief or not.

The KKK are a Christian organisation

edit: oh, and for the record I'm an agnostic.

Back to top

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

IP Logged

Sprintcyclist

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 40822
Gender: male

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #23 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:33pm

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:24pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:19pm:

My 'problem' is muzzies will kill those who are not muslims, purely because they are not muslims.
Christians will not.
Well, no other belief system will do this.
Athiests are happy to 'live and let live."
Agnostics are quite ok with any belief or not.

The KKK are a Christian organisation

edit: oh, and for the record I'm an agnostic.

the KKK's ideas are not supported by Jesus.

For the record, I am a Christian and am happy to live under "agnostic" laws.

Back to top

Modern Classic Right Wing

IP Logged

Pete Waldo

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 503
U.S.
Gender: male

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #24 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:34pm

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 10:54pm:

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 8:48pm:

You mean setting up partners with Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah". Tragically, as long as Muhammadans follow Muhammad alone, they can't even understand who the God of the scriptures is.

Yours vs mine. How about you debate this properly and argue them both on their own merits on this subject instead of simply assuming one side is right on this topic and the other is wrong by default.

You either suffer reading and comprehension difficulties, or you didn't read the prior two posts. Since Islam is as opposite to the Gospel, as Muhammad was to the sinless Messiah - as the negative is to a photograph - one of the two is necessarily and egregiously wrong.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/jesus_or_muhammad.htm

God gave us all the free will to choose between right and wrong, good and evil, and reality and fantasy, so how we spend our eternal life depends on the choices we make in this life. Those choices in turn, are arrived at through a love of truth, or absence thereof. Your posts, for example, exhibit an outright hostility toward truth, even while you choose self-imposed abject ignorance to the subjects at hand.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/strong_delusion.htm

The rest of us can choose to follow the one true God of love of the Jews and Christians as He revealed Himself through ALL of His prophets and witnesses of His 1600 year record of revelation to mankind, whose people have followed Him through two covenants for 3500 years. A record that is well supported by history, archaeology and fulfilled prophecy, that is consistent with matter of fact physical geography, and can even be confirmed mathematically.
beyondtheharbinger.com
islamandthetruth.com/bible_prophecy.htm

Or one can follow Muhammad alone, and his alter-ego "Allah" that is revealed in Muhammad's record as a terrorist, that inspired a cruel, violent, imperialistic, mass-murdering, child violating, counter-"messenger" of an anti-religion, in Muhammad's "Allah's" spirit of antichrist. A scripture-contrary, counter-religion with a pre-Muhammad history-devoid, archaeology-absent, reality-rejecting, geographically-impossible so-called "tradition", that masquerades as thousands of years of pre-Muhammad history, yet was all created and put to the pen in the 7th to 10th centuries AD without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 5th century AD.

A counter-YHWH anti-religion with a carnal tradition of prostrating toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol and Kaaba in Mecca five times a day - located 1200 kilometers away from the Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs - while praying in the "vain repetitions as the heathen do", in the names of the Arabian pagan deity "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad. Even compelled to perform adopted, adapted and thinly veneered pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship rituals.

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 10:54pm:

Islam is a different religion to Christianity, .....

That would describe Hinduism or Buddhism for example.
Islam is a specifically anti-Christian, antichrist, ANTI-RELIGION.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 10:54pm:

..... although they do share numerous similarities.

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 7:38pm:

Why don't you look it up? Islam's sin of "shirk" is worshiping multiple gods, as the Arabian pagan's did when they worshiped the gods of the moon, sun, Venus and the most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn-devil religion Asaf and Neilah.

I did look it up, and it seems very similar to paganism, or holding reverence to God or Gods outside of a religious scripture. You have also yet to explain why paganism is by default a bad thing, other than the fact it disagrees with your personal views.

It isn't a matter of my personal views, but how YHWH revealed Himself through the scriptures He inspired. The Canaanites for example, engaged in ritualistic prostitution, bestiality and even sacrifice of children to idols. Now to a moral relativist that kind of worship would need to be considered just as valid as Judaism and Christianity. The Canaanites followed gods of their own creation, just as Muslims follow the god of Muhammad and his 7th to 10th century follower's creation.

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 10:54pm:

Or is your problem with Shirk is that this sin is held above all other sins?

My problem with shirk is that in is just another source of fear that prevents Muhammad's followers from seeing the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and thus keeps Muhammad's followers in bondage to the false prophet Muhammad alone, and his followers in his stand-alone, murderous, 7th century born cult.
brotherpete.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm

Back to top

« Last Edit: Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:59pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

IP Logged

Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk" Reply #25 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:35pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:33pm: the KKK's ideas are not supported by Jesus. But they are indeed a Christian extremist group, who doesn't represent the standard view of Christianity.
Back to top	Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm: Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act IP Logged

Sprintcyclist

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 40822
Gender: male

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #26 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 12:03am

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:35pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:33pm:

the KKK's ideas are not supported by Jesus.

But they are indeed a Christian extremist group, who doesn't represent the standard view of Christianity.

I can find no quotes in the NT that support their ideas.
One of the first christians was a wealthy financier from ethiopea.
The christian bible stands against the KKK.

Anyone can commit any atrocity and claim it to be 'for God'.
Let the quotes for their actions be found.

Back to top

Modern Classic Right Wing

IP Logged

Pete Waldo

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 503
U.S.
Gender: male

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #27 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 12:05am

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:35pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:33pm:

the KKK's ideas are not supported by Jesus.

But they are indeed a Christian extremist group,........

Perhaps in the eyes of an unregenerate moral relativist. A person isn't a Christian because they claim to be, but become Christians through repentance and a conversion of the heart, and are thus "born again". Those in the KKK are no more Christian than Muslims are. Here's how we can know:

Jhn 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Let alone that the false prophet Muhammad specifically rejected the whole subject of the Gospel.
falseprophetmuhammad.com

So we shouldn't be surprised to find them fruiting the anti-Zionist tree along with Arnold Murray and his Serpent Seed cult, David Duke (and the KKK), and Jeremiah Wright, who are joined by Muslims from around the world, Louis Farrakan and the "Nation of Islam", and secular groups like communist Soviets, the United Nations, George Soros and his Center for American Progress, white supremacists, Nazis, skinheads, and anti-Semites of all stripes.
zionismchristian.com/anti_zionism.htm

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:35pm:

....... who doesn't represent the standard view of Christianity.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 1^st, 2014 at 3:50am by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

IP Logged

Stratos

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 4725

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #28 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 12:27am

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:34pm:

one of the two is necessarily and egregiously wrong.

not necessarily. They could (as I believe) both be wrong. Or maybe Islam could be correct? you have no way of knowing for sure. That is of course where the concept of faith comes into it.

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:34pm:

Your posts, for example, exhibit an outright hostility toward truth, even while you choose self-imposed abject ignorance to the subjects at hand.

Where have I not been truthful?

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:34pm:

That would describe Hinduism or Buddhism for example.
Islam is a specifically anti-Christian, antichrist, ANTI-RELIGION.

Because they have a view of big J that is not compatible with Christianity? Do you consider Baha'i to also be an "anti-religion"?

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:34pm:

It isn't a matter of my personal views, but how YHWH revealed Himself through the scriptures He inspired.

That is exactly a personal view. That is not something that can ever be proved or verified but falls into the realm of faith.

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 11:34pm:

My problem with shirk is that in is just another source of fear that prevents Muhammad's followers from seeing the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and thus keeps Muhammad's followers in bondage to the false prophet Muhammad alone, and his followers in his stand-alone, murderous, 7th century born cult.

So you are basically disagreeing with it not because of any inherent value, but only because it is part of Islam which you are against based on religious reasons. That's fine, but i wonder why then you would single out this one practice above everything else to try and prove a point when the same argument could be used for any Islamic practice. Why did you single out Shirk?

Back to top

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

IP Logged

Pete Waldo

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 503
U.S.
Gender: male

Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #29 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 12:37am

Stratos wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 12:27am:

Why did you single out Shirk?

Because, as you wold have learned if you had read and been able to comprehend the OP, Islam's only unforgivable sin of "shirk", is the very epitome of the manifestation of the spirit of antichrist.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm

What other religion requires adherents, to specifically DISbelieve that Jesus is the Son of God, as an article of their faith?

Quran Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm

1 John 2:22 ....He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jan 1^st, 2014 at 12:47am by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

IP Logged