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Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk" (Read 9470 times)

Pete Waldo

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Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Dec 30^th, 2013 at 10:46pm

From the Hoover Institute: "Few people realize that we are today living through the largest persecution of Christians in history, worse even than the famous attacks under ancient Roman emperors like Diocletian and Nero. Estimates of the numbers of Christians under assault range from 100-200 million. According to one estimate, a Christian is martyred every five minutes. And most of this persecution is taking place at the hands of Muslims. Of the top fifty countries persecuting Christians, forty-two have either a Muslim majority or have sizeable Muslim populations."

CNS reports: "Sunni Muslim terrorists committed “about 70 percent” of the 12,533 terrorist murders in the world last year, according to a report by the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC)."
That's for the year 2011, and that percentage doesn't even include Shiite Muslim terrorist murders. Thus it should be obvious to all non-Muslims, that the world would be largely at peace today, if the followers of Muhammad had not been commanded to "fight and slay" non-Muslims in the "cause" of "Allah".

Besides the murder, mayhem and misery we witness all around the world today, Islam offers yet another the opportunity to understand the nature and extent of the spiritual struggle that is taking place throughout the world, by what Muslims are taught is the only unforgivable sin in Islam of "shirk".

About 1/3 of mankind in the world today believe that Christ was crucified, died and was resurrected from the dead (even though many have not been born again). They also understand that the Messiah was sacrificed to save all from sin who have faith in the shed blood of the sacrifice of the Passover Lamb of God.
islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

A directly opposing 1/4 of mankind in the world today, is compelled to specifically to DISbelieve the crucifixion of Christ, and thus REJECT His shed blood, as articles of their faith in Muhammad alone. Compelled to conquer all kingdoms and subjugate all people to DISbelieving the crucifixion of Christ and thus denying His shed blood that would save them - the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.

Bukhari, V1 B2 #24 Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle.....

While the scriptures contain hundreds of verses that reveal the relationship between YHWH the Father, and His Son Yeshua, Muslims must reject those hundreds of verses and specifically DENY the Son of God, because of their faith in the false prophet Muhammad alone.

Quran Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Yet in the scriptures we read:
1John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1 John 2:22.... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Stunningly (but in light of Islamic history not surprisingly), Muhammad's followers are taught that if a Muslim confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, he will have committed the most "heinous" and ONLY UNFORGIVABLE sin, in Islam. As opposed to child rape, or cold-blooded mass murder, for example, which may be forgiven. As explained by many Islamic sites:

"The sin of shirk is to associate partners with Allah, basically this means to set up idols and false deities alongside Allah, granting them equal status to Allah, and to give them actions which are only reserved for God alone, such as worshipping them, making oaths to them, having fear and hope in them, and to sacrifice things in their name. All of this constitutes shirk, an example is the case of Jesus, those who set him up as a God, and invoke on him and pray to him are guilty of shirk, they are guilty of setting up a partner to the true God Allah."

Thus every single Christian over the last nearly 2,000 years has been guilty of, and died in a state of, committing Muhammad's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE sin, because we pray in the name of Jesus - the Messiah Yeshua - the Son of God:

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Thus once again, we find the extreme and polar opposite nature, of the false prophet Muhammad's counter-YHWH anti-religion. Indeed according to the scriptures, Islam is ANTICHRIST, and thus each and every follower of Muhammad is an antichrist.
Could a person be any more antichrist, than to believe that to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, would be to commit the ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN!?
islamandthetruth.com/shirk_unforgivable_sin.htm

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Pete Waldo

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Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #1 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 10:50pm

islamandthetruth.com/shirk_unforgivable_sin.htm

When I inquire of Muhammad's followers regarding our Christian confession, I ask if they believe that sins like child rape or cold blooded mass murder would constitute lesser sins, since they may be forgiven (perhaps not surprising since Muhammad was guilty of both). When pressed for an answer as to whether confessing Jesus is the Son of God or praying in Jesus' name, would constitute a greater and more "heinous" sin than child rape or cold-blooded mass murder, I received the following in reply:

"Enough of the condescension - OF COURSE I - and even you and anybody else making that "confession" would be committing the one HEINOUS sin that God does not forgive."

So the question begs, would a just God be revealed as making child rape and cold blooded mass murder lesser sins, than believing in the one true God as He revealed Himself through hundreds of verses in His 1600 year record, whose people have followed Him through two covenants for 3500 years?

Another forum member declared: "To answer your question Plainly every Christian will tell you there is only One God and that One God is made up of three parts, that is blasphemy and the greatest of all sins yes it is ascribing partners to God, (shirk)."

Yet Muhammad's followers are themselves required to believe that Muhammad's own "Allah" has a spirit (which is one of those three parts) even as they point the finger at Christians proclaiming we are guilty of "shirk" - Muhammad's ONLY unforgivable sin - for believing the same!

Sura 15.29: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

Sura 16:102 Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

So according to the measure they apply to Christians, believing that Muhammad's "Allah" has a spirit as Muhammad taught, would make them polytheistic hypocrites and guilty of Muhammad's only unforgivable sin!

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

After pointing out how God physically revealed Himself to Moses through a burning bush (which Muslims also believe), and then inquiring as to whether God could reveal Himself in the flesh of a man if He so chose to, a forum member proclaimed:
"For Him to take the form of a man, according to ours would be an abomination-a sin beyond any other that is unforgivable if one dies in that state, unless he or she repents and turns to the one and only lord."

So I point out how YHWH revealed Himself to Abraham in the flesh of a man (in Genesis chapter 18), and even ate and drank with Abraham, more than a thousand years before He revealed Himself to mankind as the prophesied Messiah and Son of God.

islamandthetruth.com/god_manifest_flesh.htm

Muhammad's followers are even compelled to believe that Muhammad declared himself to be an "intercessor", which would effectively make him a "helper" or "partner" of "Allah"! Since they do not believe Muhammad to be a part of the Godhead, this makes Muslims more polytheistic, than they accuse Christians of being!

islamandthetruth.com/intercession.htm

They are even expected to believe that the first drop of blood shed by a Muslim so-called "martyr" - that is killed inadvertently while engaged in the act of slaughtering others through imperialistic conquest - not only remits his own sins, but qualifies him to intercede for 70 of his family members. So it should be no surprise that some Muslim's parents push them into engaging in foreign wars, and even blowing themselves up in a crowded marketplace.

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130919141045AAsivCo
Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 3834 Narrated by Al-Miqdam ibn Ma'dikarib
Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "The martyr will receive six good things from Allah:
he is forgiven at the first shedding of his blood;
he is shown his abode in Paradise;
he will be preserved from the punishment in the grave;
on his head will be placed the 'crown of honour', a ruby of which is better than the world and what it contains;
he will be married to seventy-two wives from amongst the 'hoor's of Paradise;
and is made intercessor for seventy of his relatives."
google.com/#q=islam+first+drop+blood+intercede+seventy+family+members

So Muhammad's followers even get the concept of atonement of sin through shed blood, even as they are required to reject the ONE sacrifice for sin forever, provided by the ONE true God of the Scriptures, through the sacrifice of the spotless Passover Lamb of God:

Jhn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

And were it not for such as fulfilled Bible prophecy, archaeology, history and geography, it might be more difficult to seek out and follow the truth:
islamandthetruth.com/bible_prophecy.htm

« Last Edit: Dec 30^th, 2013 at 11:39pm by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk" Reply #2 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 11:30pm That sounds like plain old Idolatry? Am i missing something?
Back to top	Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm: Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act IP Logged

Pete Waldo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 503 U.S. Gender:	Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk" Reply #3 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 11:58pm Stratos wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 11:30pm: That sounds like plain old Idolatry? Am i missing something? Of course you are: 1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Back to top	Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake IP Logged

Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk" Reply #4 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 12:01am Yes yes, I'm a horrible heathen. Now how does Shirk differ from idolatry?
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Pete Waldo

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Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #5 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 3:21am

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 11:58pm:

Stratos wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 11:30pm:

That sounds like plain old Idolatry? Am i missing something?

Of course you are: 1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 12:01am:

Yes yes, I'm a horrible heathen.

Now how does Shirk differ from idolatry?

Besides your question making absolutely no sense, even a person outside the Spirit of God with just a small capacity for critical thought, should be able to conclude from that verse that it is futile to believe you could understand the things of the Spirit of God while insisting on remaining a willful unregenerate - let alone champion for the spirit of antichrist.

« Last Edit: Dec 31^st, 2013 at 6:39am by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk" Reply #6 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 7:46am My question makes perfect sense. Your description of Shirk sounds very similar to idolatry, or the worship of beings outside of ones own religion. What is the difference between Shirk and idolatry?
Back to top	Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm: Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk" Reply #7 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 7:57am Basically what Pete is saying is "my verses are better than your verses - therefore muslims are evil" Its an extremely sophisticated argument. And yes, shirk is merely setting up partners to God - aka idol worship.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Yadda

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Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #8 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 8:52am

Stratos wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 12:01am:

Yes yes, I'm a horrible heathen.

Now how does Shirk differ from idolatry?

Is Jesus God ?

Yes.

Are there two God's ?

No.

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 7:57am:

Basically what Pete is saying is "my verses are better than your verses - therefore muslims are evil"

Its an extremely sophisticated argument.

And yes, shirk is merely setting up partners to God - aka idol worship.

Idol worship ?

I don't bow down, towards a Mecca, where that BLACK ROCK is.

Google;
mecca, black rock, imagei

"It is my suspicion that the universe is not only stranger than we do imagine but it is stranger than we can imagine."

J.B.S.Haldane - biochemist

"We had thought that we were human beings making a spiritual journey; it may be truer to say that we are spiritual beings making a human journey."

Teilhard de Chardin

The message in the Bible is consistent on the subject of the 'spirit' and the spiritual;

Men should see past the 'easy' [seductive] things of this world, and seek the 'spirit' [and truth].

John 4:24
God is a Spirit:...

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:...

John 8:23
....Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:...

John 10:30
I and my Father are one. [...spirit]

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Comment;
A man is 'born of water' at his body's natural birth, when his mothers' waters break.i

The Kingdom of God v The Doctrines of Men
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1382570147/15#15
Quote:

Quote:

3) John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

This verse clearly shows two separate entities - a) the "only true God" AND b) Jesus Christ (who was sent by the only true God.) Only the one who sent Jesus is the true God, meaning Jesus himself can't be God.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

John 14:8
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk" Reply #9 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 9:11am Yadda I've told you before, please cut out the spacing.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Stratos

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Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #10 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 9:23am

I'd never heard of Shirk before last night, so I checked it out, and it seems there is some debate as to how unforgivable it is.

Some sources seem to show that it is something that cannot be forgiven ever, but the more common one seems to be that it is only unforgivable if you die while still committing it, as in die while still revering something other than Allah. However, the popular consensus seems to be that if you seek forgiveness from it before you pass away it is indeed forgiven.

What is everyone's take on it?

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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Yadda

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Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #11 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 9:46am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 9:11am:

Yadda I've told you before, please cut out the spacing.

I can't won't gandalf.

The spacing is me, Yadda.

I can stop posting on the ISLAM board.

But the spacing is me, Yadda.

You could start deleting my posts, or ban me from the ISLAM board.

But that would only prove and confirm, what everyone thought [past tense] about you.

gandalf = = [intolerant] moslem

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #12 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 9:49am

I'm not really sure where (if anywhere) in the islamic texts it says shirk is the greatest sin.

Its easy to see why it was emphasised so heavilly during Prophet Muhammad's time though - the people during that time did worship Allah, and recognised him as the supreme God. However they also set up subordinate partners to him, and set up all the idols for worship inside the Kabaa. So even these "polytheists" were basically on the "right" path according to islam, but for this innovation of setting up these idols - which was only a relatively new innovation on the original "true" religion of Abraham, which the people of Arabia never really fully abandoned. Thus Muhammad's mission was more about reminding the people of their heritage, and pointing out that Allah was not merely the best of many gods, but the only one true God - rather than introducing a completely new religion.

Interestingly, its said that when Muhammad took Mecca and destroyed the idols in the Kabaa, he left one in there - a statue of the virgin Mary.

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Stratos

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Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #13 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 10:06am

Yadda wrote on Dec 31^st, 2013 at 9:46am:

You could start deleting my posts, or ban me from the ISLAM board.

But that would only prove and confirm, what everyone thought [past tense] about you.

gandalf = = [intolerant] moslem

Oh Yadda, you are too cute. Tell me more about how more tolerant you are than Gandalf while referring to Islam as a bucket of sewerage, and supporting genocide commited by Christians

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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wally1

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Re: Islam's ONLY UNFORGIVABLE Sin of "Shirk"
Reply #14 - Dec 31^st, 2013 at 2:38pm

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 10:50pm:

islamandthetruth.com/shirk_unforgivable_sin.htm

When I inquire of Muhammad's followers regarding our Christian confession, I ask if they believe that sins like child rape or cold blooded mass murder would constitute lesser sins, since they may be forgiven (perhaps not surprising since Muhammad was guilty of both). When pressed for an answer as to whether confessing Jesus is the Son of God or praying in Jesus' name, would constitute a greater and more "heinous" sin than child rape or cold-blooded mass murder, I received the following in reply:

"Enough of the condescension - OF COURSE I - and even you and anybody else making that "confession" would be committing the one HEINOUS sin that God does not forgive."

So the question begs, would a just God be revealed as making child rape and cold blooded mass murder lesser sins, than believing in the one true God as He revealed Himself through hundreds of verses in His 1600 year record, whose people have followed Him through two covenants for 3500 years?

Another forum member declared: "To answer your question Plainly every Christian will tell you there is only One God and that One God is made up of three parts, that is blasphemy and the greatest of all sins yes it is ascribing partners to God, (shirk)."

Yet Muhammad's followers are themselves required to believe that Muhammad's own "Allah" has a spirit (which is one of those three parts) even as they point the finger at Christians proclaiming we are guilty of "shirk" - Muhammad's ONLY unforgivable sin - for believing the same!

Sura 15.29: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

Sura 16:102 Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

So according to the measure they apply to Christians, believing that Muhammad's "Allah" has a spirit as Muhammad taught, would make them polytheistic hypocrites and guilty of Muhammad's only unforgivable sin!

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

After pointing out how God physically revealed Himself to Moses through a burning bush (which Muslims also believe), and then inquiring as to whether God could reveal Himself in the flesh of a man if He so chose to, a forum member proclaimed:
"For Him to take the form of a man, according to ours would be an abomination-a sin beyond any other that is unforgivable if one dies in that state, unless he or she repents and turns to the one and only lord."

So I point out how YHWH revealed Himself to Abraham in the flesh of a man (in Genesis chapter 18), and even ate and drank with Abraham, more than a thousand years before He revealed Himself to mankind as the prophesied Messiah and Son of God.

islamandthetruth.com/god_manifest_flesh.htm

Muhammad's followers are even compelled to believe that Muhammad declared himself to be an "intercessor", which would effectively make him a "helper" or "partner" of "Allah"! Since they do not believe Muhammad to be a part of the Godhead, this makes Muslims more polytheistic, than they accuse Christians of being!

islamandthetruth.com/intercession.htm

They are even expected to believe that the first drop of blood shed by a Muslim so-called "martyr" - that is killed inadvertently while engaged in the act of slaughtering others through imperialistic conquest - not only remits his own sins, but qualifies him to intercede for 70 of his family members. So it should be no surprise that some Muslim's parents push them into engaging in foreign wars, and even blowing themselves up in a crowded marketplace.

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "The martyr will receive six good things from Allah:
he is forgiven at the first shedding of his blood;
he is shown his abode in Paradise;
he will be preserved from the punishment in the grave;
on his head will be placed the 'crown of honour', a ruby of which is better than the world and what it contains;
he will be married to seventy-two wives from amongst the 'hoor's of Paradise;
and is made intercessor for seventy of his relatives."
google.com/#q=islam+first+drop+blood+intercede+seventy+family+members

So Muhammad's followers even get the concept of atonement of sin through shed blood, even as they are required to reject the ONE sacrifice for sin forever, provided by the ONE true God of the Scriptures, through the sacrifice of the spotless Passover Lamb of God:

Jhn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

And were it not for such as fulfilled Bible prophecy, archaeology, history and geography, it might be more difficult to seek out and follow the truth:
islamandthetruth.com/bible_prophecy.htm

Your alittle confused my friend.

Christians see the spirit as a diety, a figure, a god like figure. For example the three in one God which people are brainwashed with.

Muslims see spirit as the soul and not as some figure or god like structure.

God created the physical part of the humans, but put in it the soul to bring it into life.

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