Australian Politics Forum - Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ...

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ... Reply #60 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:01pm bump
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Sparky

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Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ...
Reply #61 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:04pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:01pm:

Sparky wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 6:19pm:

I'm not talking about rape on the street. I'm talking about rape in the home Gandalf. How well do Muslim women go when they don't want sex and their husband does?

To answer that sensibly we need statistics, and we all agree the statistics aren't there. So how on earth am I supposed to give you a proper answer? The best you can do is make a guess based not on the demonstrated behaviour of actual people, but on a simplistic understanding of what the quran commands - and then (baselessly) assume that all or most muslims act like that in real life. I'm not saying that you do that, but freediver and Yadda have been flogging this dead horse for years.

So you have no opinion on the subject at all without stats?

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freediver

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Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ...
Reply #62 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:32pm

Gandalf doesn't have an opinion full stop. The stats are just one of his many deflections.

Quote:

Fine, so how is that wrong?

Crime rates are not lower. Conviction rates are lower.

Quote:

we're not talking about the Koran, we're talking about the evidence (or lack thereof) of muslim crime rates:

Is there any evidence to back up Ian's claim? Or is it only the people who disagree with him that actually need evidence?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Sparky Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1338 Gender:	Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ... Reply #63 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:35pm freediver wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:32pm: Gandalf doesn't have an opinion full stop. The stats are just one of his many deflections. Surely he must have some insights being a Muslim.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51888 At my desk.	Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ... Reply #64 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:54pm I have spent over a dozen pages trying to get an opinion out of him on tricky subjects. He can be very creative. But it is still worth it. I've noticed the harder it is to get an opinion, the more surprised I am by the answer, or the more difficult questions it raises.
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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ... Reply #65 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:07pm So let's have a review of 'Islamisation by stealth'. Here's a fairly credible account of how it progresses in Western society. link
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Stratos

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Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ...
Reply #66 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:18pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:07pm:

So let's have a review of 'Islamisation by stealth'.

Here's a fairly credible account of how it progresses in Western society.

link

Haha, what? Credible source?

Quote:

Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
Somalia — Muslim 100%
Yemen — Muslim 100%

Ha, good one.

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Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ...
Reply #67 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:22pm

Sparky wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:04pm:

So you have no opinion on the subject at all without stats?

Not an informed one - and neither do you. An uninformed opinion is worse than no opinion at all.

freediver wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:32pm:

Crime rates are not lower.

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

In the absense of evidence indicating the contrary, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that lower conviction rates = lower crime rates.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ...
Reply #68 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:24pm

Quote:

In the absense of evidence indicating the contrary, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that lower conviction rates = lower crime rates.

So jailing rape victims doesn't count as evidence to the contrary?

At what point does common sense kick in?

Abu Hurairah narrates that the Prophet said: “One who keeps the faults of a Muslim secret in this world, Allah will keep his faults in the Hereafter"

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ...
Reply #69 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:37pm

freediver wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:24pm:

So jailing rape victims doesn't count as evidence to the contrary?

Not even close.

If you could give me some statistics on its prevalence, and show conclusively that it demonstrates a higher rate of sexual crime against women than in the non-muslim world, then and only then might you have something.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ...
Reply #70 - Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:40pm

As a Muslim, Gandy cannot be critical of Islam without some Muslim authority to back him up. He can be critical of Islam if other Muslims are critical of it but he cannot simply reason against Islam off his own bat. He must have some Muslim authority to back him.

This is incomprehensible for non-Muslims, especially to a post-enlightenment European non-Muslim, but that's the nub of it. A Muslim cannot side with non-Muslims when it comes to a critical appraisal of Islam.
No can do.

So certain things are impossible: criticism of Mohammed, rejection of the infallability of the Koran, disputing the perfection of sharia, etc.
No can do.

Stoning, veils, ham sandwiches - peripheral issues with a 'diversity' of interpretations so an impression of intellectual ferment can be pretended. But it ain't there. There is an intellectual ferment in Islam only about the things that don't matter.

The things that matter - Mohammed, Koran, sharia, submission - there is only grim stagnation and uniformity of opinion.

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Sparky

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Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ...
Reply #71 - Dec 17^th, 2013 at 4:29am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:22pm:

Sparky wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:04pm:

So you have no opinion on the subject at all without stats?

Not an informed one - and neither do you. An uninformed opinion is worse than no opinion at all.

freediver wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 7:32pm:

Crime rates are not lower.

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.

In the absense of evidence indicating the contrary, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that lower conviction rates = lower crime rates.

That's a conclusion. Muslim woman can't get legal help. Why dismiss the whole part of the argument?

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ... Reply #72 - Dec 17^th, 2013 at 6:41am Sparky wrote on Dec 17^th, 2013 at 4:29am: Why dismiss the whole part of the argument? Because it is completely baseless.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Lord Herbert

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Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ...
Reply #73 - Dec 17^th, 2013 at 7:16am

Soren wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:40pm:

The things that matter - Mohammed, Koran, sharia, submission - there is only grim stagnation and uniformity of opinion.

That just about sums it up.

Whether it's Islam, or the infallibility of the Pope, or Mao's Little Red Book, the mindset is one of necrocephalic intellectual inertia with regard to applying any degree of critical examination and inspection of the sanctified claims being made.

And what THIS leads to are followers and congregations that are just as devoid of intellectual mobility and enervation as the Terracotta Warriors in China.

Quote:

"The unexamined life is not worth living"

Socrates 400BC

I want to see gandalf cast off his shackles and unchain himself from the religious straitjacket that has stultified his intellectual processes like an alien virus.

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« Last Edit: Dec 17^th, 2013 at 2:05pm by Lord Herbert »

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freediver

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Re: Islamisation-by-stealth alive and well ...
Reply #74 - Dec 17^th, 2013 at 1:33pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:37pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 8:24pm:

So jailing rape victims doesn't count as evidence to the contrary?

Not even close.

If you could give me some statistics on its prevalence, and show conclusively that it demonstrates a higher rate of sexual crime against women than in the non-muslim world, then and only then might you have something.

What it demonstrates is that it requires extreme self delusion to conclude that the lower conviction rates reflect a lower crime rate.

It is not up to me to conclusively prove that you assumptions are absurd. If you want to try to back up your claim, or Ian's for that matter, go ahead, but there is no point backing it up with an obviously illogical and flawed argument then demanding that others "prove" the existence of the flaws.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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