Australian Politics Forum - Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)

John Smith Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 77598 Gender:	Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS) Reply #45 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:20pm Andrei what was the dollar value of the total damages estimated at? Include everything from the cost odf washing the birds to lost income, mortages etc ... who do you think should pay? the taxpayer?
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #46 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:26pm

I will defend ANYBODY being unfairly penalised and hung out to dry when its unfairly done.

The fact I know BP quite well and work in the industry allows me additional insight.

BP were not responsible - they had some responsibility for which they admitted and also even made management changes (I felt sorry for Tony Haywood, he was absurdly hung out to dry).

Deepwater was not owned by BP, it was leased. The valves were not owned by BP.
The rig stability was not owned by BP.
The well (which wasn't the problem) was owned but that has nothing to do with it - a well did what a well will do - apply pressure and bring flare ups if the security points are not sealed or capped across the breaklines.

Sorry - but BP's experience is exactly the reason why we as a multi-nationals need to be able to use tribunals outside of the national boundary.

I am a good corporate guy. I buy into what the company tries to do and I sell it to people - both external and internal.
We don't always get it right and pay our way when we don't but we try to provide energy to growing populations, participate in the environment and be a decent social citizen.

That's what it is all about. Now you'll have utter cretins like those who support the Greens who just believe EVERYTHING an oil and gas company does is wrong.
It isn't - we try and do the best job we can.

I'm as patriotic about Australia as you guys, I just happen to believe strongly in the role of the corporation for which I work.
Maybe why I have been recognized by the SLT but that's not the point.

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Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS) Reply #47 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:27pm The rig, while operated by a subby was chartered to BP. Same deal as on any site - the actions of the subcontractor are the responsibility of the primary contractor. They weren't simply buying the crude from an independent operator.
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS) Reply #48 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:27pm MOTR wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:18pm: Get over yourself, Andrei. No one thinks Multinationals deserve to ride rough shod over the local population. That's not what I am saying and you know it.
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John Smith Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 77598 Gender:	Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS) Reply #49 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:31pm John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:20pm: Andrei what was the dollar value of the total damages estimated at? Include everything from the cost odf washing the birds to lost income, mortages etc ... who do you think should pay? the taxpayer? bump for Andrei
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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS) Reply #50 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:36pm Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:27pm: MOTR wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:18pm: Get over yourself, Andrei. No one thinks Multinationals deserve to ride rough shod over the local population. That's not what I am saying and you know it. It's exactly what you are advocating.
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #51 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:52pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:20pm:

Andrei what was the dollar value of the total damages estimated at? Include everything from the cost odf washing the birds to lost income, mortages etc ...

who do you think should pay? the taxpayer?

bump for Andrei

I don't think that figure exists. If it does I haven't seen it.
A combination should give assistance aligned to their negligence.

Raping BP is not fair or just.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #52 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:53pm

MOTR wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:36pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:27pm:

MOTR wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:18pm:

Get over yourself, Andrei. No one thinks Multinationals deserve to ride rough shod over the local population.

That's not what I am saying and you know it.

It's exactly what you are advocating.

I'm advocating a more fair tribunal free of the kind of mob rule BP experienced in the Gulf and Amoco did in Brittany.

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John Smith

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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #53 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:58pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:20pm:

Andrei what was the dollar value of the total damages estimated at? Include everything from the cost odf washing the birds to lost income, mortages etc ...

who do you think should pay? the taxpayer?

bump for Andrei

I don't think that figure exists. If it does I haven't seen it.
A combination should give assistance aligned to their negligence.

Raping BP is not fair or just.

Give me a guesstimate

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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MOTR

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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #54 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 9:01pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:20pm:

Andrei what was the dollar value of the total damages estimated at? Include everything from the cost odf washing the birds to lost income, mortages etc ...

who do you think should pay? the taxpayer?

bump for Andrei

I don't think that figure exists. If it does I haven't seen it.
A combination should give assistance aligned to their negligence.

Raping BP is not fair or just.

How much less than $200 billion would be fair, Andrei.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #55 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 9:17pm

"BP warned shareholders that over $1bn had been paid out in what the company believes are fictitious claims.

Bob Dudley, chief executive, said it was “digging in” for the long haul to try to stem the payments and would try to recoup money paid to businesses that suffered no loss.

The disclosure came as BP reported underlying second quarter net profits of $2.7bn, down from $3.6bn last year and significantly undershooting analyst expectations of $3.4bn."

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #56 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 9:19pm

MOTR wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 9:01pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:20pm:

Andrei what was the dollar value of the total damages estimated at? Include everything from the cost odf washing the birds to lost income, mortages etc ...

who do you think should pay? the taxpayer?

bump for Andrei

I don't think that figure exists. If it does I haven't seen it.
A combination should give assistance aligned to their negligence.

Raping BP is not fair or just.

How much less than $200 billion would be fair, Andrei.

It's far less than that and to be fair the provision booked was conservative.
Nonetheless BP have paid out almost $50bn in compensation.

5 times their annualized margin.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #57 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 9:22pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:26pm:

I will defend ANYBODY being unfairly penalised and hung out to dry when its unfairly done.

The fact I know BP quite well and work in the industry allows me additional insight.

BP were not responsible - they had some responsibility for which they admitted and also even made management changes (I felt sorry for Tony Haywood, he was absurdly hung out to dry).

Deepwater was not owned by BP, it was leased. The valves were not owned by BP.
The rig stability was not owned by BP.
The well (which wasn't the problem) was owned but that has nothing to do with it - a well did what a well will do - apply pressure and bring flare ups if the security points are not sealed or capped across the breaklines.

Sorry - but BP's experience is exactly the reason why we as a multi-nationals need to be able to use tribunals outside of the national boundary.

I am a good corporate guy. I buy into what the company tries to do and I sell it to people - both external and internal.
We don't always get it right and pay our way when we don't but we try to provide energy to growing populations, participate in the environment and be a decent social citizen.

That's what it is all about. Now you'll have utter cretins like those who support the Greens who just believe EVERYTHING an oil and gas company does is wrong.
It isn't - we try and do the best job we can.

I'm as patriotic about Australia as you guys, I just happen to believe strongly in the role of the corporation for which I work.
Maybe why I have been recognized by the SLT but that's not the point.

My god, your posts are sad at times.

If it wasn't for money or your job, would you have any sort of life at all?

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #58 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 9:23pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:58pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:52pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:31pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:20pm:

Andrei what was the dollar value of the total damages estimated at? Include everything from the cost odf washing the birds to lost income, mortages etc ...

who do you think should pay? the taxpayer?

bump for Andrei

I don't think that figure exists. If it does I haven't seen it.
A combination should give assistance aligned to their negligence.

Raping BP is not fair or just.

Give me a guesstimate

I couldn't even guess. Far too many aspects are involved.
I'd say $150bn give or take $30bn.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS) Reply #59 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 9:26pm The fact BP raised $200bn is a suggestion that's the entire cost. They've brought it down now to $42bn suggesting they are paying their portion - but they've been rorted. I'd recommend the article in Business Week "How BP got screwed".
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Poll
Question: How would you view Abbott acquiescing to ISDS
Good for business 2 (20.0%) Foolish 2 (20.0%) An act of treachery 6 (60.0%) Total votes: 10 « Created by: MOTR on: Sep 21^st, 2013 at 3:59pm »