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Poll Poll
Question: How would you view Abbott acquiescing to ISDS

Good for business    
  2 (20.0%)
Foolish    
  2 (20.0%)
An act of treachery    
  6 (60.0%)




Total votes: 10
« Created by: MOTR on: Sep 21st, 2013 at 3:59pm »

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Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS) (Read 5650 times)
MOTR
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Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Sep 21st, 2013 at 3:51pm
 
While Howard had the good sense to preserve our sovereignty by rejecting the proposed ISDS provision in our free trade agreement with the United States (AUSFTA), it would seem Murdoch's lackey Abbott may have no such qualms. 

Quote:
What is the Investor-State Dispute Settlement, or ISDS?

What this arcane phrase refers to is the right of foreign companies to sue national governments of the signatory countries, not in domestic courts, but in opaque international forums, if they think some element of that government’s policy is harming their interests.

If a mining company, for example, is unhappy with environmental safeguards which inhibit its operations, if a pharmaceutical company is unhappy with the prices it gets for its drugs, if a chemical company is upset with the banning of an agricultural pesticide, if a tobacco company does not like laws restricting cigarette sales, ISDS provisions in trade agreements give them the means to challenge government policy and to seek compensation.

And they do this increasingly often, sometimes claiming enormous amounts of money. According to a report in May 2013 by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development, which monitors these things, a record 58 ISDS cases were begun in 2012. In the same year, decisions were made on 42 cases by an assortment of more or less credible international arbiters. Only 31 of these were publicly disclosed, but of those, 70 per cent went in favour of the corporations, at least in part; and nine resulted in significant awards for damages, including one – to an oil company which sued Ecuador – for a record US$1.77 billion.


http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/abbott-open-for-business-and-multinational-...
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MOTR
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #1 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 3:59pm
 
What do you think?
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cods
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #2 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:13pm
 
dont think anyones interested MOTR wiseones already tried to capture our imagination with this same one...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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cods
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #3 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:14pm
 
at least we are finding out where all the lefty webs sources are.

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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John Smith
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #4 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:23pm
 
I wouldn't put it past Abbott to do something so blatantly stupid !!!!
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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MOTR
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #5 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:25pm
 
cods wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:13pm:
dont think anyones interested MOTR wiseones already tried to capture our imagination with this same one...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


which thread?

So Howard was wrong and Abbott is right to reconsider including ISDS clauses in our free trade agreements?

What's your reasoning, cods?
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« Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:30pm by MOTR »  

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #6 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:30pm
 
You are literally running a one man smear campaign.

You have a personal dislike of Abbott and haven't given him a chance from day 1.

At least be honest and admit it.

How come I have much less of a problem with him as PM despite not being a supporter of his?
Could it be that I'm more willing to give people a chance?
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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MOTR
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #7 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:34pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:30pm:
You are literally running a one man smear campaign.

You have a personal dislike of Abbott and haven't given him a chance from day 1.

At least be honest and admit it.

How come I have much less of a problem with him as PM despite not being a supporter of his?
Could it be that I'm more willing to give people a chance?


You're more corporate Borg than Australian, Andrei. I'm sure we can all guess your position on this issue.

As for running a smear campaign. Abbott's seems to be doing just fine by himself.

Now, Andrei, what's your opinion in this issue? What have you got that helps Abbott look less like a treasonous rat.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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cods
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #8 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:37pm
 
MOTR wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:25pm:
cods wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:13pm:
dont think anyones interested MOTR wiseones already tried to capture our imagination with this same one...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


which thread?

So Howard was wrong and Abbott is right to reconsider including ISDS clauses in our free trade agreements?

What's your reasoning, cods?


2 tings stand out..

1/check the word CONSIDERING in your title MOTR...

you make an assumption .. thats its done and dusted...

it doesnt seem likely that he would give anyone the legal right to sue a govt...


2/ its the GLOBAL MAIL. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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MOTR
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #9 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:40pm
 
cods wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:37pm:
MOTR wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:25pm:
cods wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:13pm:
dont think anyones interested MOTR wiseones already tried to capture our imagination with this same one...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


which thread?

So Howard was wrong and Abbott is right to reconsider including ISDS clauses in our free trade agreements?

What's your reasoning, cods?


2 tings stand out..

1/check the word CONSIDERING in your title MOTR...

you make an assumption .. thats its done and dusted...

it doesnt seem likely that he would give anyone the legal right to sue a govt...


2/ its the GLOBAL MAIL. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


Of course it's not done and dusted. When Australians find out what the treasonous rat is up to they won't abide it.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #10 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:49pm
 
My opinion?

The ability of us as a corporate entity to challenge Government decisions is paramount to a successful capitalist global economy.

We are bigger than countries. We deserve the ability to challenge.

Ill take an example we have had.
In Australia the previous Government went back on its agreement with the energy industry - of which we are a significant player - to subsidise the R&D costs on shale fracking process refinement and also to assist in upstream delivery refinement on deepdive offshore drilling.

In one swoop they acted - without consultation to industry or at least the likes of ourselves or Exxon, Chevron or Texaco and remove the entire rebate scheme.
This could and should be able to be challenged because it puts us out of pocket to the tune of $600m+.

Now why should corporate entities not challenge legally decisions taken that we believe are wrong?

It has nothing to do with patriotism.

I have as much loyalty to Australia as the rest of you guys.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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MOTR
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #11 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:58pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 21st, 2013 at 4:49pm:
My opinion?

The ability of us as a corporate entity to challenge Government decisions is paramount to a successful capitalist global economy.

We are bigger than countries. We deserve the ability to challenge.

Ill take an example we have had.
In Australia the previous Government went back on its agreement with the energy industry - of which we are a significant player - to subsidise the R&D costs on shale fracking process refinement and also to assist in upstream delivery refinement on deepdive offshore drilling.

In one swoop they acted - without consultation to industry or at least the likes of ourselves or Exxon, Chevron or Texaco and remove the entire rebate scheme.
This could and should be able to be challenged because it puts us out of pocket to the tune of $600m+.

Now why should corporate entities not challenge legally decisions taken that we believe are wrong?

It has nothing to do with patriotism.

I have as much loyalty to Australia as the rest of you guys.


It's not paramount when we have survived as an economy quite successfully without it. It's just another tool for the economic rent seekers. Why should tax payers pay billions in compensation because we as a society don't want advertising on our cigarette packets.
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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MOTR
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #12 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 5:06pm
 
What I want to know is what has changed since 2010.

Quote:
In 2009, the then ALP Government requested that the Productivity Commission undertake a study into the impact of bilateral and regional trade agreements on Australia’s economic performance. The Commission received submissions from business, government and non-government organisations and produced a final report in December 2010.

The study received a large number of submissions on the topic of ISDS, and reviewed these submissions in its report, some of which is quoted above.

After reviewing the evidence on ISDS, the report found no evidence that ISDS resulted in greater inflows of foreign direct investment. It also found no evidence for some of the other key arguments used to justify ISDS. For example, it found no evidence of market failure resulting from political risk to foreign investors, and no evidence that regulation is systematically biased against foreign investors (Productivity Commission 2010: 269-70).

On the contrary, the report concluded that that "experience in other countries demonstrates that there are considerable policy and financial risks arising from ISDS provisions” (Productivity Commission 2010: 274).
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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #13 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 5:09pm
 
I'm sorry you're wrong.

One of the most important fundamentals about global market capitalism - which we all agree is the only card game in town - is to continuously evolve.
A country remains competitive and attractive on the basis of its ability to satisfy the supply curve and its readiness to evolve and work with corporations.

We as an entity are a citizen. We are a corporate citizen with social aims to partake in society ethically.
It is right and fair that a corporation has the ability to take action to remedy a result stemming from what is believed to be an illegal and unjust action.

It's not about patriotism here. Corporate policies and actions in the global market transcend national boundary.
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Abbott considers further treachery (ISDS)
Reply #14 - Sep 21st, 2013 at 5:10pm
 
So I'll ask again, how come I am more inclined to give Abbott a chance and you have given him zero chance from day 1?!
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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